NFP and Honeymoon

[Musician]

Just a thought for your consideration to the OP:
I also knew that I was going to be fertile on my honeymoon. It was NOT a good time to get pregnant, we were moving to Europe at the time the baby would have been due, and there were many other factors involved.
However, my fiance and I discussed the matter and decided that we weren’t going to give up our intimacy on our honeymoon just because we MIGHT have a baby. And anyway, what was wrong with having a baby???
Well, of course I did conceive and have a honeymoon baby, and guess what? It was all fine. We went ahead with our move (I did nothing but sit there and direct movers with my 3-week-old in my arms) and we took off for Italy soon thereafter.
I bless the day that we decided to go ahead and have our long-desired marital unity, which resulted in a beautiful, healthy son who has brightened our lives. We never regretted it!

 

[Leonius]

My fiance and I are getting married in December, and while it is a little bit early to say for sure, but it is looking likely that I will be fertile on our wedding night and a good part of the honeymoon.

We’ve discussed this at length, prayed about it and talked about it during our very long engagement (due to graduate school). We both think postponing a pregnancy at least until I graduate in May 2010 (though perhaps a little longer so I have time to work maybe a year to start paying off school loans) would be fine. Though we both agree that even with NFP, we have to be constantly praying for God’s will in our decision to be TTA or TTC.

Why are you getting married before you want to start a family? If you do not want children till after you graduate then you should wait till after you graduate to get married.

While if a unplanned pregnancy occurs, the baby would be born in September 2010 which would not be something we absolutely couldn’t deal with…it is just not ideal since I graduate in May, and we move to another state in June/July. And hopefully I will be taking the 2 board exams to be a licensed pharmacist in June…plus hopefully starting a job and working for awhile.

None of these are legitimate reasons to use NFP to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, to use it for these reasons would be a great sin.

Anyways, in this long post trying to explain my situation, I guess I’m trying to ask if any couples decided to abstain their wedding night and honeymoon because they thought it best to postpone a pregnancy. I’m worried about it, partially because I’m disappointed thinking of the sacrifice we’d be making during a time that should be special and romantic time for a newly wed couple as they make that transition in their relationship to husband and wife. I’m also from a family (even in my extended family) that thinks I’m crazy for not using some form of birth control or living together/being currently sexually active…and I can’t help but feel that it would hurt doublely knowing that we are making the “right decision” and are committed decision in this respect and yet we cannot even enjoy our honeymoon as husband and wife…

So anyways, complicated…but wanted to see if any other Catholic couples could offer their own experience and/or advice. Thank you!

The solution is a simple one, wait until you are ready for children to marry then you can enjoy your honeymoon as much as you want.

 

[Leonius]

It’s fairly common for NFP couples to have to wait to consummate their marriage…
We were several days into our honeymoon before it was possible…

HTH!

Before it was possible? It was possible you just choose not to. I hope you had grave and serious reasons to do so.

 

[Leonius]

NFP couples do have to abstain on their honeymoons a lot. either that or schedule their weddings around their cycle.

So you can either change the wedding or the cycle. The wedding would be a lot easier to change, but you said you can’t. So… have you thought about strenuous exercise combined with caloric restrictions?

On the bright side it can’t get much more difficult than abstaining on your honeymoon, so you will be ready for the worst NFP can throw at you.

How about only marrying when you are ready to start a family like you are supposed to be?

 

[Leonius]

These are exactly the questions that NFP makes you ask. These are the questions that are so important and put everything in perspective.

Really, it all comes down to you and your future husband deciding what is most important. Is it more important that I continue to pursue my career with as little debts as possible so that I can do what I feel God is calling me to? Or, do I in fact now feel that raising a family is more important?

If God is not calling her to start a family she shouldn’t be getting married and also she won’t get pregnant if it is not God’s will for her even if she does not use NFP.

 

[dsulpizio]

If you aren’t ready to start a family, you should not be getting married,period.

 

[Jesus_123]

Why are you getting married before you want to start a family? If you do not want children till after you graduate then you should wait till after you graduate to get married.

None of these are legitimate reasons to use NFP to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, to use it for these reasons would be a great sin.

The solution is a simple one, wait until you are ready for children to marry then you can enjoy your honeymoon as much as you want.

Hi Footprints04 . . .

Congratulations! It’s a wonderful thing to find someone whom you love and who loves you and with whom you are considering entering into Christian Catholic marriage and family life . . .

The Lord blessed my life with work as a church secretary for many years . . . and one of the churches I was blessed with the opportunity to work for had a large . . . **and really wonderful **. . . wedding ministry . . . **and personal and Christ centered . . . counseling . . . was absolutely required for all couples **. . . no matter what the age . . . if they were to be married in the Church . . . ***and the Lord blessed this approach phenomenally . . . ***

Leonius in the above quote has . . . *in a very real way *. . . wisely discerned that your problem may very well . . . not . . . be what you perceive it to be . . . at all . . . ***but may very well be a lack of real understanding of what God’s calling to the vocation of marriage is . . . and what the **actual vocation *****of Christian marriage truly is . . .

From my reading of your first post . . . my initial question regarding your concern was ***. . . WHY have you set your wedding date for the time selected? . . . *** since the wedding date is completely within your choice to control . . . ? . . .

. . . If . . . there are other concerns and interests you would like to pursue . . . such as graduation . . . licensing . . . working at a profession for which you have been training, etc., . . . **and you place these on an equal basis with marriage and a family **. . **or above marriage and a family . . . **

+ you really are in need of some true Catholic counseling in the Church
as to what the vocation of marriage actually entails +

You and your husband do not appear to be ready . . . yet . . . to enter into the vocation and Sacrament of Marriage as taught by the Catholic Church . . . at this time in your lives . . . At this point you appear to need to explore and become more fully knowledgeable as to what a . . . true Christian Catholic marriage . . . actually entails . . . *before you “jump” in . . . *

From your original post . . . it looks like you are prematurely planning to dive into . . . only one section . . . of the . . . deep water “pool” of marriage . . . without understanding the entire scope of that vast pool and the skills needed for successfully navigating and swimming in the waters . . . which waters . . . from time to time . . . can be . . . very, very deep . . . and at times turbulent . . .

Below is a super Catholic . . . online . . . site . . . They can probably very helpfully answer each of your questions and concerns from a much more knowledgable foundation . . . considerably better than most of us can here in the Catholic Answers Forum . . . and they will give you answers from the perspective of the Catholic Church . . . based on lots of experience with lots of couples . . . **with whom they have had marvelous feedback . . . They did a super interview with Father Mark on the . . . new Life on the Rock. . . television show . . . on the EWTN cable television network . . . not long back . . . . and . . . if I’m remembering correctly . . . all these are on-line for watching if you go to the EWTN.com website . . .

At this point . . . my considered advice to you is to seriously consider postponing your planned wedding date . . . and to suggest that . . . with your husband-to-be . . . you explore some of the wonderful . . . rich . . . marriage preparation resources available for Christian Catholic couples such as yourselves . . . so that . . . when you do marry . . . *the rich joys and delights of true marriage can be yours in the Lord . . . without reservation . . . *

marriagepreponline.com/

Your questions and concerns are an excellent place to start in your contact with them . . .

God richly bless you with wisdom and true love . . . first for God . . . and then for one another . . . and if your church and your priest have premarital counseling available . . . check it out also!

***“Direct me in thy truth,
and teach me;
for thou art God my Saviour;
and on thee have I waited
all the day long.” ***
Psalm 24:5[25:5]
:bible1:

. . . all or Jesus+
. . . guide and pray for this couple
dear Holy Mother Mary+​

 

[ac_claire]

. . . If . . . there are other concerns and interests you would like to pursue . . . such as graduation . . . licensing . . . working at a profession for which you have been training, etc., . . . and you place these on an equal basis with marriage and a family . . or above marriage and a family . . .

+ you really are in need of some true Catholic counseling in the Church
as to what the vocation of marriage actually entails +

You and your husband do not appear to be ready . . . yet . . . to enter into the vocation and Sacrament of Marriage as taught by the Catholic Church . . . at this time in your lives . . . At this point you appear to need to explore and become more fully knowledgeable as to what a . . . true Christian Catholic marriage . . . actually entails . . . *before you “jump” in . . . *

Yep, yep…and yep! Amen to all that. Please consider all these things, OP.

 

[FrenchGwen]

I have to say I absolutely **disagree **with what has been said in the last posts here
How can one be so judgmental ??
Since the Church herself didn’t define precise reasons for avoiding, who are you to decide on her behalf ???

Men and women were designed by God such as they could be together without automatically getting pregnant, and were given a mind so that they could discern whether they were called to have children right away.
YES, when a couple get’s married, husband and wife must be ready to accept children should God decide to send them.
but NO, this doesn’t mean they have to actually WANT children right away.

They are called to think over it and if they discern they first need time just the 2 of them before getting parents for whatever reasons, of course this doesn’t mean they don’t trust God: He can still decide these reasons are nuts and send them a child, in which case they will greet this child with joy and adapt to his coming.

Honestly, … “you need 3 persons to make a good marriage” : God Husband Wife
not FOUR !! (+ child) : the first times of a marriage are sometimes really … busy, learning to live with this strange bein one has just married. why rush things ???

 

[Leonius]

I have to say I absolutely **disagree **with what has been said in the last posts here

Your disagreement is not based on what the Church teaches and so is of no relevance.

How can one be so judgmental ??

Judgement is necessary in order to discern right from wrong.

Since the Church herself didn’t define precise reasons for avoiding, who are you to decide on her behalf ???

I am not deciding on her behalf the Churches teachings are clear, perhaps it just seems like I am deciding on her behalf because you are ignorant of the teachings or wish to deny them for your own personal reasons. Perhaps you would like to stop attacking me and instead show us where the Church teaches that it is ok to swear false vows in your marriage when you say you are ready to have children and you are not?

Men and women were designed by God such as they could be together without automatically getting pregnant, and were given a mind so that they could discern whether they were called to have children right away.

That is not why men and women were given the ability to reason at all, we have been given the ability to reason and free will so that we can know, love and obey God freely, with that freedom we are also free to sin also, but sin is not ok.

YES, when a couple get’s married, husband and wife must be ready to accept children should God decide to send them.
but NO, this doesn’t mean they have to actually WANT children right away

They are called to think over it and if they discern they first need time just the 2 of them before getting parents for whatever reasons, of course this doesn’t mean they don’t trust God: He can still decide these reasons are nuts and send them a child, in which case they will greet this child with joy and adapt to his coming.

The time for discernment about whether or not to start a family is BEFORE the marriage for the obvious reason that children are the PRIMARY purpose of marriage. The secular idea of marriage which is all about the pleasure of the couple is VERY different to what a true marriage as taught by the Church is and which you should believe as a Catholic.

“The mere fact that husband and wife do not offend the nature of the act and are even ready to accept and bring up the child, who, notwithstanding their precautions, might be born, would not be itself sufficient to guarantee the rectitude of their intention and the unobjectionable morality of their motives.” Pope Pius XII

Honestly, … “you need 3 persons to make a good marriage” : God Husband Wife
not FOUR !! (+ child) : the first times of a marriage are sometimes really … busy, learning to live with this strange bein one has just married. why rush things ???

A marriage that does not have as its primary end the procreation and the education of children is no marriage at all and to enter into a marriage with the intention to not have children at the time the marriage takes place is a diriment impediment to marriage which makes the marriage invalid, that is, there is no marriage which is why it is grounds for an annulment. That is how important children are to a marriage.

“The matrimonial contract, which confers on the, married couple the right to satisfy the inclination of nature, constitutes them in a state of life, namely, the matrimonial state. Now, on married couples, who make use of the specific act of their state, nature and the Creator impose the function of providing for the preservation of mankind” Pope Pius XII

Indeed then, Marriage confers certain rights, but only because it imposes very precise duties, the first of which is the procreation and the education of children:

“The individual and society, the people and the State, the Church itself defend for their existence, in the order established by God, on fruitful marriages” Pope Pius XII

Therefore, children are not obstacles to avoid, nor mere accidents that happen, but the primary end and goal of matrimony it follows that if:

“according to a reasonable and equitable judgement” “grave reasons or motives” do not intervene. Spouses who use their matrimonial rights, cannot licitly shrink from the duty “which.’ nature find the Creator impose”. “…to embrace the matrimonial state, to use continually the faculty proper to such a state and lawful only therein, and, at the same time, to avoid its primary duty without a grave reason, would be a sin against the very nature of married life”. (Quotes are Pope Pius XII)

"Our Predecessor, Pius XI, of happy memory, in his Encyclical Casti Connubii, of December 31, 1930, once again solemnly proclaimed the fundamental law of the conjugal act and conjugal relations: that every attempt of either husband or wife in the performance of the conjugal act or in the development of its natural consequences which aims at depriving it of its inherent force and hinders the procreation of new life is immoral; and that no “indication” or need can convert an act which is intrinsically immoral into a moral and lawful one.

This precept is in full force today, as it was in the past, and so it will be in the future also, and always, because it is not a simple human whim, but the expression of a natural and divine law." Pope Pius XII
29 October 1951

 

[PaulinVA]

Perhaps you would like to stop attacking me and instead show us where the Church teaches that it is ok to swear false vows in your marriage when you say you are ready to have children and you are not?

How about settling for you producing the vows that support what you wrote?

Catholic wedding vows ask: “Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?”

 

[ac_claire]

Men and women were designed by God such as they could be together without automatically getting pregnant, and were given a mind so that they could discern whether they were called to have children right away.…

YES, when a couple get’s married, husband and wife must be ready to accept children should God decide to send them. but NO, this doesn’t mean they have to actually WANT children right away…

They are called to think over it and if they discern they first need time just the 2 of them before getting parents for whatever reasons…

Thanks for sharing these nuggets of wisdom from the Catechism of FrenchGwen with us. I hope you don’t think this is too judgemental, but personally I’m more interested in what the Church has always taught about marriage and I pray the OP is as well.

Honestly, … “you need 3 persons to make a good marriage” : God Husband Wife
not FOUR !! (+ child) : the first times of a marriage are sometimes really … busy, learning to live with this strange bein one has just married. why rush things ???

There seems to be a misunderstanding here of what marriage is. Put down your personal Catechism for a sec and do some research on what the Church teaches, and has always taught, about marriage.

Having children is not just a fun thing that a couple may or may not decide to do at some point in their marriage, if they can fit it in their schdeules or if they “discern” that it will enhance their quality of life, et.

Pro-creation is the primary purpose of marriage! Being married and being open to children are so entwined that you truly can’t have one without the other. Of course the Church does recognize some rare exceptions. Some couples may not be able to physically have children…others may use NFP to space their children for a serious and objectively just reason. But other than that, being open to life in the marital act is not optional; it’s the defining aspect of a Christian marriage.

 

[Leonius]

How about settling for you producing the vows that support what you wrote?

Catholic wedding vows ask: “Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?”

They must be capable of fulfilling the promises they make on the wedding day; that is, not suffer from any psychological infirmity (canon 1095) that will prevent them from giving themselves in a partnership of the whole of life that has as its ends the well-being of the parties and the procreation and education of children (canon 1055). They must intend the words that they speak on the wedding day; that is, intend to form a permanent and faithful partnership, open to sexual acts that are procreative (canon 1101).

It is an implicit part of the vows you make to take the other as your spouse according to the rite of the Catholic Church.

 

[PaulinVA]

They must be capable of fulfilling the promises they make on the wedding day; that is, not suffer from any psychological infirmity (canon 1095) that will prevent them from giving themselves in a partnership of the whole of life that has as its ends the well-being of the parties and the procreation and education of children (canon 1055). They must intend the words that they speak on the wedding day; that is, intend to form a permanent and faithful partnership, open to sexual acts that are procreative (canon 1101).

It is an implicit part of the vows you make to take the other as your spouse according to the rite of the Catholic Church.

So, there is nothing in the vows that requires the couple to have relations on any given day, and there is nothing in the canons that require relations on any given day?

I didn’t think so.

And canon 1101 talks about planning to deny ones spouse relations that are intrinsically procreative througout the marriage. That is not the case here. The couple would gladly accept children from God, but will not actively try, at first, due to (what for them are) serious reasons.

 

[Leonius]

So, there is nothing in the vows that requires the couple to have relations on any given day, and there is nothing in the canons that require relations on any given day?

I didn’t think so.

And canon 1101 talks about planning to deny ones spouse relations that are intrinsically procreative througout the marriage. That is not the case here. The couple would gladly accept children from God, but will not actively try, at first, due to (what for them are) serious reasons.

Your interpretation of the canons is incorrect. They must intend on the actual day of their marriage to form a “partnership, open to sexual acts that are procreative”, that is they must on the day of their wedding desire to have children.

To enter upon a marriage without the intention of the marriage on that day of fulfilling its primary purpose makes the marriage invalid.

The reason for this is because the ministers of a sacrament, in this case the couple must have the right intention for the sacrament to be valid, and it is their intentions on the day of the sacrament that is all important.

This is why, for example if a person intended to be faithful on their wedding day but then commits adultery the marriage is still valid but if the person did not intend to be faithful on the actual marriage day the marriage never happened and annulments are granted. It is the same with the intention of fulfilling the duty of marriage to procreate, the intention must exist on the marriage day itself or the marriage is null and void.

Any reasons grave enough to try and avoid conceiving are also grave enough to not get married in the first place, the disordered emphasis on the worldly ease and pleasure of the couple is an error which shows a lack of faith in God to provide through His Divine providence.

 

[Tosk]

Your interpretation of the canons is incorrect. They must intend on the actual day of their marriage to form a “partnership, open to sexual acts that are procreative”, that is they must on the day of their wedding desire to have children.

To enter upon a marriage without the intention of the marriage on that day of fulfilling its primary purpose makes the marriage invalid.

Not so much anymore, but I know in the past the church would marry people who did not intend on consummating their union for several years. I am not a canon lawyer but your interpretation seems a little off.

 

[Norseman82]

And it’s nobody’s business but yours, no need for family and friend to know.

You forgot about the self-appointed NFP police, who appear to have just shown up.

Question for the NFP police here who are acting all ex cathedra about what is and is not a legitimate reason to use NFP: what Church document spells out what is and is not a legitimate reason to use NFP?

 

[Norseman82]

If you aren’t ready to start a family, you should not be getting married,period.

What about what St. Paul said in 1 Cor. 7 - about how it is better to be married than to burn?

 

[Tosk]

You forgot about the self-appointed NFP police, who appear to have just shown up.

There do seem to be a lot of them on the board. Some people just don’t have enough of their own business so they have to start minding everybody else’s.

I am very interested to see the list of what is and isn’t approved.

 

[ChristHealsAll]

Question for the NFP police here who are acting all ex cathedra about what is and is not a legitimate reason to use NFP: what Church document spells out what is and is not a legitimate reason to use NFP?