NFP and Irregular Cycle

[Ray_Scheel]

FTS:

Temps can also be thrown off it the woman is a mouth breather at night, though the workaround there is simple if the woman is willing as temps can also be taken vaginally for very accurate BBT readings.

However, based on what you described, its quite possibly that she was temping accurately but that there was no shift to notice in her record. She has something significantly off-kilter, with that long between cycles there are potential infertility issues that are best investigated and treated well before you think you might be ready to start a family.

I will ditto the two of you jointly learning a mucous-focused method like Creighton and finding an NFP doc, particularly one that is Creighton / NaPro trained to try to get to the bottom of what is going on with her.

 

[1ke]

Not long after marriage my wife did check into NFP. She tried the thermometer practice for two months and has told me that it didn’t work for her, there was no pattern.

Did she take a class, or just try to do it herself? Maybe she could see no pattern, but a trained instructor most likely could have helped her. If she only tried it two months, then she could not possibly have gone through an entire class, because they are at least 3-4 months in duration.

I don’t know the best way to put it, but however it is supposed to work it did not work for her. Was she doing it incorrectly or does that particular method not work for all women?

I suspect she was not doing it correctly. Yes, it does “work”, even if what it tells you is that you have a medical problem-- such as low thyroid, etc.

She has not tried any other NFP method, such as checking the mucus and other bodily signs, or the Creighton Model.

The Sympto-Thermal also teaches mucus and cervix, which she would have learned in a class. This also makes me think that she didn’t take a class and didn’t REALLY try NFP. There is no “temperature only” NFP method.

Also, she is VERY irregular. Sometimes she will go even 1-9 months between her periods, it is a totally random thing and she never knows when to expect it. I am trying to understand this situation better and I appreciate any clarification and insight you all could provide me with. Thanks!

She could hvae PCOS or low thyroid, or any number of underlying medical problems. Charting will help diagnose. I really suggest you call a Creighton or Sympto-Thermal instructor.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

The Sympto-Thermal also teaches mucus and cervix, which she would have learned in a class. This also makes me think that she didn’t take a class and didn’t REALLY try NFP. There is no “temperature only” NFP method.

In my NFP class, we learned about a temp only method, I just don’t remember what it’s called…

From what I have found from an internet search, it is referred to as the “Basal body temperature method” or the “Temperature Method”, basing the show of ovulation as the .04 temperature rise.

 

[1ke]

In my NFP class, we learned about a temp only method, I just don’t remember what it’s called…

From what I have found from an internet search, it is referred to as the “Basal body temperature method” or the “Temperature Method”, basing the show of ovulation as the .04 temperature rise.

Temperature alone cannot predict ovulation, only confirm it has occurred. A person is fertile for days before ovulation.

Without using mucus and/or cervix, you cannot identify when you are entering the fertile phase. Temperature only confirms after ovulation has occurred.

I looked it up and the Doring Method does show a study with temp only, but those who were effective at preventing pregnancies confined intercourse to Phase III only.

 

[LittleDeb]

In my NFP class, we learned about a temp only method, I just don’t remember what it’s called…

From what I have found from an internet search, it is referred to as the “Basal body temperature method” or the “Temperature Method”, basing the show of ovulation as the .04 temperature rise.

I have heard of this method. My parents used a similar one in the late 1960s-early 1970s. They called it “Temperature Rhythm.” It involved a lot of abstinence.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I have heard of this method. My parents used a similar one in the late 1960s-early 1970s. They called it “Temperature Rhythm.” It involved a lot of abstinence.

I’m sure it did!

 

[FTS]

My wife DID NOT undergo actual classes when she attempted the thermometer method for two weeks. What she did was talk with an older sister of one of her good friends who practices NFP, and through her found out how to do this. Unfortunately during that time I didn’t agree with Church teaching on contraception, so I was of no help. It is more recently that I have come to this understanding of Church teaching. And she actually didn’t try it because she agreed with Church teaching, she just wanted to try it out as a possibility. It appears as you’ve told me a woman must do this practice for 3-4 months to really have results, and also under the education of NFP classes of course. Also, I realize she is very rare with her time between periods as anywhere from 1-9 months, with no predictable knowledge. But like you’ve all said, this situation could be resolved after meeting with a NFP doctor, to decide how she could best use NFP. So it sounds like even with this rare condition with her sporadic periods, she could still totally use NFP effectively right? Also, judging from the details of her situation thus far, do any of you know of the Sympto-Thermal method or the Creighton Model is likely to be a better method for her? How are they different? They both involve taking of temperature, mucus observation, observation of cervix, and other bodily signs right? It sounds like all of these signs are important and they point to a resounding and sure way to tell if a woman is fertile or not fertile on a daily basis, right?

 

[PatienceAndLove]

As far as I understand it, even with excessive times in-between periods, a woman can still go through fertile points, but I could be confused
With your wife having such long periods between periods, I would recommend using a fertility software (Taking Charge of Your Fertility is the one I use). This would allow the two of you to better track her cycles without having to use multiple paper charts.
And I would agree that an NFP doctor would help you figure out the best NFP method to use. Also, take the class. 2 weeks is in no way long enough to know if something is effective. If I remember correctly, a woman who starts BCP needs to use a “back-up” method for a certain amount of time so her body can get used to the hormones.

 

[1ke]

My wife DID NOT undergo actual classes when she attempted the thermometer method for two weeks. What she did was talk with an older sister of one of her good friends who practices NFP, and through her found out how to do this. Unfortunately during that time I didn’t agree with Church teaching on contraception, so I was of no help. It is more recently that I have come to this understanding of Church teaching. And she actually didn’t try it because she agreed with Church teaching, she just wanted to try it out as a possibility.

This is probably detrimental, as she has now convinced herself it doesn’t work when really she never was properly trained.

So it sounds like even with this rare condition with her sporadic periods, she could still totally use NFP effectively right?

Yes

Also, judging from the details of her situation thus far, do any of you know of the Sympto-Thermal method or the Creighton Model is likely to be a better method for her?

Either one would be effective.

How are they different? They both involve taking of temperature, mucus observation, observation of cervix, and other bodily signs right?

Creighton is mucus only. It was developed by Dr. Hilgers when he was affliated with Creighton University, who now runs the Pope Paul VI Institute.

Billings is mucus & cervix, and was developed by a husband and wife doctor team (the Billings) in Australia.

Sympto-Thermal is taught by Couple to Couple League, not doctors.

The doctors who are affiliated with Dr. Hilgers would go through Creighton training. There are probably fewer doctors “trained” in Sympto-Thermal.

Do the research, each method has pro’s and con’s, although they are all effective.

It sounds like all of these signs are important and they point to a resounding and sure way to tell if a woman is fertile or not fertile on a daily basis, right?

I use Creighton, mucus only.

 

[Teakafrog]

TAlso, she is VERY irregular. Sometimes she will go even 1-9 months between her periods, it is a totally random thing and she never knows when to expect it.

Has she been tested for PCOS? That is a big indicator of PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome. I have it. I too had NO idea when periods would come and the temperatures had no pattern. But the cervical mucus patterns STILL WORK. You can tell by that alone whether you are fertile or not, even if you haven’t had a period in months. Your temp chart would probably NOT tell you this. Again, check into Creighton. It works wonders for us PCOSers.

 

[argon091076]

My wife has a very irregular cycle, and she has trouble believing that she would be able to effectively use NFP. I do know that NFP is effective for all women, even those who have very irregular cycles. I’ve read information that says this is true. I am trying to learn more about NFP methods. Does anyone have some advice on how NFP can be effective even for a woman with very irregular cycles? Thanks!

I am irregular (meaning that I don’t menstruate exactly every 28 days) and I know when I am fertile and when my menstruation will be. I have cycles of 30 or 35 days or 40 days then back to 32 days so on…a couple of times there were 47 and 57 days and I still knew when I ovulated and when I was going to get my menses. NFP is wonderful. At first I was afraid that I was just not going to get it, but I tried and with time I understood it perfectly well!

By the way, I am irregular because I am very sensitive to stress. I am a very nervous person, too.

If she learns NFP well, she will know when she is fertile and she is not.

Bottomline, NFP works for every woman that is regular or irregular.

My advice is for her to learn NFP well. Focus focus focus

 

[argon091076]

Also, my husband was/is very supportive. It took me a about a year to learn it or more…

I went to a teacher, bought some books and monitored myself all the time I went to the restroom. All this helped tremendously.

 

[argon091076]

I have a friend who has 21 day cycles. She has not been able to become pregnant. I just think that it is more than likely with her that she is ovulating during her menses. She once told me that they don’t have intimacy during her menstruation.

I have not seen her in a while. I know they don’t have children yet and are not expecting, but I still feel that she is ovulating during her menstruation.

 

[1ke]

I have a friend who has 21 day cycles. She has not been able to become pregnant. I just think that it is more than likely with her that she is ovulating during her menses. She once told me that they don’t have intimacy during her menstruation.

I have not seen her in a while. I know they don’t have children yet and are not expecting, but I still feel that she is ovulating during her menstruation.

She could also have an insufficient luteal phase. She should chart and see a doctor.

 

[Jennifer_J]

There’s no one “perfect” NFP method for everyone. There are 3 main versions: Billings–mucous and cervix, Creighton–standardized mucous observation and Sympto-thermal–mucous, cervix and temps. Each woman finds the method that works for her cycle and preferences. That being said, temps can give you info about thyroid problems or hormonal problems.

With her cycle irregularities, you should try to find an NFP doctor omsoul.com who will look at your charts and help you find the problem. You could also contact the Pope Paul VI Institute for help if you have trouble finding a helpful doctor popepaulvi.com

You should both talk about what type of method might work best for her and find a teacher and actually learn a method.
ccli.org
boma-usa.org
creightonmodel.com

2 weeks of self taught temping is not going to work. You might also buy her the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It isn’t a Catholic book, so talks about using barrier methods during the fertile time, however I’ve heard the info is easy to understand and is just about Fertility Awareness and not Church Teaching. CCLI’s Art of Natural Family Planning is great, too, and has the Church’s teaching contained in it.

God bless,
Jennifer

 

[Tauna]

Hello and Good Evening!

While I will agree that the different NFP methods will appeal to different women. I will agrue that in the case of fertility issues and an inability (currently) to concieve that the Creighton Model is best suited.

I am definately not trying to start an argument over the effectiveness or any other aspect of the different NFP methods. They each are effective and can help achieve a pregnancy, in fact the simple awareness of your fertility that any NFP method can bring to a women is essential.

I offer the Creighton Model as a great method for those struggling with infertility because of the medical aspects of the method. Unlike the other NFP methods, the Creighton Model is the basis for a whole branch of women’s health, NaProTechnology (Natrual Procreative Technology), that not only seeks to help couples with responsible family planning, and achieving pregnancy while dealing with fertility issues (both female and male), but it also offers women a holistic approach to gynecologic health.

Once you learn the Creighton Model, you can take your charts to a Doctor who has been trained by the founder of this method, Dr. Thomas Hilgers, who is also the founder of the Pope Paul VI Institute, see popepaulvi.com/, and you can seek treatment for gynecologic problems, not just fertility issues like: polycycstic ovarian disease, endometriosis, hormone deficiencies (which can cause infertility, PMS, depression, etc.) and other female problems. I thank God for all of this and the fact that it is all, yes all, based on Catholic teaching.

I know that I may come across too strong, but I am in the throughs of my own fertility struggles and I have found a haven in this NFP method, we still do sympto-thermal because of Thyroid issues and a need to watch my temps. Not only have I found someone who will not push the pill or IVF, but I have found doctors willing to treat me as a whole, not just my symptoms.

If you have any personal questions, please send me a private message. I’d love to share more, but I am sure that I have gone on to much as it is.

May God Bless you on this journey and Sanctify you through these Stuggles.
Tauna

 

[Jennifer_J]

I’ll stand by my point that the sympto-thermal method does this as well—find a good doctor who understands the charts and it doesn’t matter. I find it curious you suggest creighton so strongly and then say you still do temps for other problems That was my point. The temps can point to problems that mucous only, as good as it is, can’t help diagnose. Don’t get me wrong, I’m THRILLED that the Pope Paul VI Institute exists and helps women cure these problems! However, not everyone has access to them.

God bless,
Jennifer

 

[LittleDeb]

Yes, If I ever get the chance, I plan on learning the other two methods. In our recent magazine through Couple to Couple League there was an article on Sympto-Thermal users learning Creighton Model to be better assisted by the Pope Paul VI Institute. They were glad to know the other method because it gave them a deeper understanding of their own method.

Basically, the differences of the methods boil down to quite a few important factors. The signs are all the same. It is a matter of which sign gives the best indicator of fertility. How they are charted is different, but they are charting the signs common to all women. The medical support for each method is different. The area one lives in has some impact on the method chosen.

I would make one important point. The most reliable and most researched methods are the ones noted here. Billings, Creighton, and Sympto-Thermal. There are other methods that are not well suited to most health issues and really are better used by “regular cycle” couples. While I am an avid STM (Sympto-Thermal) user I will admit to its drawbacks. Sometimes more signs can add confusion instead of clarity. As I said with my wildly irregular cycles I rely on one or two signs more heavily based on what I am currently facing.

Creighton users are going to highly recommend that method because it has the ability to get health problems fixed RIGHT NOW. Billings is an older method, while still widely used, does not have as much current popularity among the young couples. STM is popular with its users because of the cross-check of three different signs. But since it is taught by married couples instead of medical practitioners, it has the highest chance of being misunderstood by inexperienced users. It can be very useful in long term care since it uses all of the signs currently known to indicate fertility.

I don’t know enough about the methods I don’t use. There is a nurse here on the boards who is trained in both STM and Creighton. If I get the chance I’ll PM her and ask her to weigh in. The people I know who are entering menopause find the Billings and STM methods very helpful. Creighton model is still a newer method and probably just doesn’t have as many early menopausal women using it yet.

The best advice I would have for the OP after this, yet again, LONG post is this. Do the research in your area. Sometimes the best method for you is the one you can learn and get to really using soon. If the one you find isn’t working for you, then seek out another. Of these three Methods there is nothing in one that will be completely contradicted in another method. I think even the phases have the same names.

Best of luck and God bless you and your wife. I hope NFP will bring much joy to your marriage. NFP has this wonderful habit of being very effective at preventing pregnancy, while opening the eyes of its users to joyfully embracing many, many pregnancies.

 

[astegallrnc]

The temps can point to problems that mucous only, as good as it is, can’t help diagnose.

The same can be said for Creighton.

There’s no one “perfect” NFP method for everyone.

I second this. The best NFP system is the one the couple will use. The challenge is finding that system, but it can be done.

 

[reganq]

I also have a lot of infertility problems due to a pituitary tumor. Through the Creighton model, we were able to conceive our second and third pregnancies. The second pregnancy even came after 11 months of no cycles after our first child was born.

In addition to helping me become in better tune with my body, it is also very cost-effective.