NFP and people getting state aid

[LaSainte]

You obviously do not have children then. We were blessed with our first child 5 yrs ago. Since then, I have had two miscarriages, one of them being an ectopic pregnancy and the baby couldn’t survive. I am BLESSED to be pregnant once again, my baby is due November. We consider this child to be a a true GIFT from God.

I have 2 children and they are the greatest things that have ever happened to me, thankyouverymuch.

 

[LaSainte]

Still don’t believe you. You might have withholding that equals 33% of your gross but there is no way, in the US, that a married person, with children, making what you claim, is paying anywhere near 33% in total taxes.

Why do you feel the need to be “sneaky” in this discussion?

I don’t really give a rat’s *** if you believe me or not. The fact is that we fall just short of any tax credits that would in any way help us out. We fall about 1000 dollars short of the mortgage tax credit, we get no tax credits for the one carthat we own, my husband works from home and his company doesn’t pay for any of those expenses, yet we also fall short of he tax credit for a home office. Unless you are a CPA or a tax lawyer, you have no idea what you are talking about and I’ll thank you to just stay out of it unless you ARE a CPA, in which case I can fax over the books and you can try to get us a better deal, because the guys at H&R block apparently have nothing on your expertise.

 

[joclucsylv]

I don’t really give a rat’s *** if you believe me or not. The fact is that we fall just short of any tax credits that would in any way help us out. We fall about 1000 dollars short of the mortgage tax credit, we get no tax credits for the one carthat we own, my husband works from home and his company doesn’t pay for any of those expenses, yet we also fall short of he tax credit for a home office. Unless you are a CPA or a tax lawyer, you have no idea what you are talking about and I’ll thank you to just stay out of it unless you ARE a CPA, in which case I can fax over the books and you can try to get us a better deal, because the guys at H&R block apparently have nothing on your expertise.

Bottom line is you are an honest hard working American family who pays taxes and who doesn’t rely on the government for aid and have a multitude of kids they can’t support. Congrats on your pregnancy and God you and your family.

 

[MrsStephanieH]

Stephanie, state aid is income based including medicaid which is what would pay for birth. If your income is over state guidelines than you wouldn’t qualify. I highly doubt that a the state would cover the birth of a family making 100K per year even if insurance doesn’t cover the birth of a child .Also, I am still making monthly payments to the hospital where my last child was born because my insurance didn’t cover it all. Would you have a problem financing a car? If you and your husband can afford the monthly payment, the right thing to do would be to pay for the birth yourself instead of having the state. Perhaps I will get blasted for that statement, but that is the honest responsible thing to do. Peace Stephanie!

Well…I think you are making A LOT of assumptions. I don’t make anywhere NEAR 100k a year! If I made 100k I would gladly pay for it. No I could not finance a car. I can barely pay for my one bedroom apartment.

I’m assuming that if you work in a job that pays you decent that they would have decent insurance as well, and don’t have to worry about paying hospital bills.

I understand that you are hurting every time you see a family who is coming in for assistance and not working, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help people out. There are a lot of honest, good, hard-working people getting state aid. You cannot make assumptions about all of them. You don’t know their hearts.

Let me quote Blessed Mother Teresa, “How can there be too many children? That is like saying there are too many flowers.”

I’m sure at times she felt discouraged about all the pain and suffering that she saw, but instead of getting angry, she just loved.

 

[Inthemountains]

We are self employed and pay alot of expenses for our 4 employees including the employer payroll tax and very expensive worker’s comp. We can’t afford private health insurance for our own children and they do get state assistance for their medical care. How ironic is that? We are paying out the wazoo to employee people. How about if the government lets us keep the money we make and we pay for our own children’s health care? That would be much more efficient.

The problem here isn’t poor people on state aid. The problem is how our entire system is structured. We really need to start thinking about how to implement the idea of subsidiarity in our society.

 

[LaSainte]

Bottom line is you are an honest hard working American family who pays taxes and who doesn’t rely on the government for aid and have a multitude of kids they can’t support. Congrats on your pregnancy and God you and your family.

Thank you so much!

 

[joclucsylv]

Well…I think you are making A LOT of assumptions. I don’t make anywhere NEAR 100k a year! If I made 100k I would gladly pay for it. No I could not finance a car. I can barely pay for my one bedroom apartment.

I’m assuming that if you work in a job that pays you decent that they would have decent insurance as well, and don’t have to worry about paying hospital bills.

I understand that you are hurting every time you see a family who is coming in for assistance and not working, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help people out. There are a lot of honest, good, hard-working people getting state aid. You cannot make assumptions about all of them. You don’t know their hearts.

Let me quote Blessed Mother Teresa, “How can there be too many children? That is like saying there are too many flowers.”

I’m sure at times she felt discouraged about all the pain and suffering that she saw, but instead of getting angry, she just loved.

I pay lots of hospital bills. I have deductibles that I have to meet and am still paying monthly on my child’s birth. The only people who have free medical care now a days are those on the statep

IMO, if you can barely afford your apartment why have children for the rest of us to support. Why should tax payers pay for the birth of your child? Now let me ask you, if you didn’t have the state to fall back on to pay your medical bill, would you have child and go into debt? Answer me honestly now! Welfare should be just who it was intended for. The disabled, the elderly, and the sick.

I mentioned the medicaid programs are based on income and guidelines vary from state to state.
In my state a family of 2 making 30 k per year wouldn’t qualify for assistance. I wasn’t implying that you m*de 100 k per year. It was just a number I threw out there.
I mentioned that government assistance is generational. Seems as though you are going to walk in the same shoes as your parents.

I saw my mom how she paid for the births of 4 children today. She said they never relied on the state where they could have. They made arrangements with the local hospital and on a good year when the crop sold they would pay on the bill.
Have all the children in the world Stephanie. Just be able to afford them and not let the taxpayer foot the bill. Our church teaches responsible parenting. Now I ask, what is responsible about bringing children into this world if you can’t support them? If you thjink you can’t afford your apartment now, wait till you have kids.

 

[joclucsylv]

We are self employed and pay alot of expenses for our 4 employees including the employer payroll tax and very expensive worker’s comp. We can’t afford private health insurance for our own children and they do get state assistance for their medical care. How ironic is that? We are paying out the wazoo to employee people. How about if the government lets us keep the money we make and we pay for our own children’s health care? That would be much more efficient.

The problem here isn’t poor people on state aid. The problem is how our entire system is structured. We really need to start thinking about how to implement the idea of subsidiarity in our society.

I know how you feel. My husband owns a business as well and when the 15th of the month comes around it is discouraging! Payroll taxes and work comp are so expensive!

 

[mark_a]

And I never said I was in he 33% bracket, I said we PAY 33% in taxes. There is a sneaky but subtle difference.

Is that 33% federal income tax or all taxes?

 

[MrsStephanieH]

IMO, if you can barely afford your apartment why have children for the rest of us to support. Why should tax payers pay for the birth of your child? Now let me ask you, if you didn’t have the state to fall back on to pay your medical bill, would you have child and go into debt? Answer me honestly now! Welfare should be just who it was intended for. The disabled, the elderly, and the sick.

I really wish you wouldn’t make assumptions and insult me. I would have children even if I went into debt and was paying for them for the rest of my life. Human life is much more valuable than money.

I think you should start looking at the system to make changes and not the people who are bringing beautiful life into this world. It would make sense to me to offer people help to get them onto their feet, but then require them to make an effort to better themselves.

If you really want something to change, you should lobby to your state officials.

 

[LaSainte]

Is that 33% federal income tax or all taxes?

We don’t have state income tax or anything like that where I live. I just know my husband’s salary and what we take home and that’s what it adds up to, so I’m guessing Federal. We actually USED to get a better deal because we were putting the max into our 401k, but a year ago we stopped putting anything into it because we can’t afford it anymore.

So basically, we are hugely delaying our retirement and may have nothing to live on then, Social Security will be bankrupt, and we are beig forced to pay welfare to people who refuse to do the responsible thing and stop having kids while we spiral into debt to help them raise heir children. God bless America.

 

[LaSainte]

I have an anecdote.

My grandmother and grandfather had 8 children. Both were high school educated. They refused to go against the Church and use birth control, but my Grandmother’s cycles were very unpredictable and she could never predict ovulation.

She of course cried every time she got pregnant and never wanted so many kids. It was also a big source of embarrassment because none of their friends had hat many and were baffled as to why they didn’t just use ABC or something.

They were dead broke.

Did they slink on down to he welfare office for a handout? Hell no. They would have died of humiliation. Instead, my grandfather worked all day at an average, low-paying job. My grandmother worked the night shift at a factory after the kids were asleep Grandma walked to work, worked until early morning, went to daily mass on the way home, and made it home in time to make everyone a hot breakfast and get the kids bathed and dressed for school. When they went to school, she slept for 4 hours and then woke up in time to make them all lunch (they would walk home for lunch). After lunch, she would change their clothes again and send them back to school. Then she would clean the house and do all of the laundry (by hand, no machines). Then she would make dinner for all 10 of them and always scrubbed he floor afterwards. She would give all he kids a bath and put them into fresh pyjamas before getting ready and going to work herself for the night. She also made a lot of their clothes by hand.

She did this for YEARS, because as she pu it, she would be damned if people were going to say “Look at those people with all those kids and they can’t even take care of them”. The kids were always clean, with freshly washed and ironed clothes andhe house was always immaculate. Never ONCE did they ask for anything from anyone.

THAT is how it’s done.

 

[joclucsylv]

We don’t have state income tax or anything like that where I live. I just know my husband’s salary and what we take home and that’s what it adds up to, so I’m guessing Federal. We actually USED to get a better deal because we were putting the max into our 401k, but a year ago we stopped putting anything into it because we can’t afford it anymore.

So basically, we are hugely delaying our retirement and may have nothing to live on then, Social Security will be bankrupt, and we are beig forced to pay welfare to people who refuse to do the responsible thing and stop having kids while we spiral into debt to help them raise heir children. God bless America.

Yup. We can’t afford to put anything into our 401k either. I pay 140 dollars PER WEEK to insure my family for insurance that sucks. Stephanie forgive me for being angry at people who leech off the system and get things for free. When I first started working with programs, I felt for these people. My heart went out to them big time. I was raised in poverty so I could relate. Well, 8 years later I have a different view and I am sick of it. I suppose I could change jobs, but working in the health profession would make that difficult. Living in a small town, we know the ones leeching off the state. You know what? Many live better than I do. Nicer cars, houses. How does that happen you may ask. Many have their own businesses not incorporated. They claim a loss every year. That’s what makes them qualify. What a joke. Then there are those who have 4 different kids with 4 different fathers and still walk in with smart phones, have full cable and internet and they can afford cigarettes and tatoos. Then there are the families of 2 working parents who still qualify for aid. But yet, they don’t know when to stop having kids. At about kid number 3 I look at them and I am angry.

Also Stephanie, today at mass what I wrote to you in a previous post weighed heavy on my heart. I am sorry. I am blessed that my parents taught me to get a good education so I could be self sufficient. My dad raised me saying that we never know what would happen in life and to get a job where I could support myself. We were poorer than poor and he wanted better for us. I am married to the most hard working man in the world where he is proud to work 70 hours a week to support his family. I am BLESSED!!! Perhaps I should take my blessings and quit complaining about those who don’t want to help theselves. Also, I think it angers me because even though I was raised in poverty, I didn’t even know the system was an option. I didn’t even know it existed. All I knew was that I had to rely on myself in life cause that is what my parents did. People who were raised on the system know it exists and therefore know they can rely on it.

 

[joclucsylv]

I really wish you wouldn’t make assumptions and insult me. I would have children even if I went into debt and was paying for them for the rest of my life. Human life is much more valuable than money.

I think you should start looking at the system to make changes and not the people who are bringing beautiful life into this world. It would make sense to me to offer people help to get them onto their feet, but then require them to make an effort to better themselves.

If you really want something to change, you should lobby to your state officials.

Stephanie, I wasn’t making assumptions. In your first post you stated that your insurance doesn’t cover childbirth and that the state you live in covers childbirth for those who aren’t insured for it. It sounded to me like you are looking to the state to pay.

I am all for the system helping people get on their feet. I have also worked in the system long enough to know that it generally doesn’t happen that way. Sad isn’t it? Ask anyone who has worked in the system for a number of years what they think and they will feel like I do.
I am not a hateful person and when someone is truly poor like what Mother Theresa saw I cry. In the USA, not even the low income know what it is to be poor. I was raised in poverty and I don’t know what it is like to be poor like the people of Calcutta.
Those are the people who need the help. LaSainte has the right idea. The church tell us to be open to life. They should offer the aid to a couple like you who’s insurance doesn’t pay for the birth of a child. The state shouldn’t pay.

 

[joclucsylv]

I have an anecdote.

My grandmother and grandfather had 8 children. Both were high school educated. They refused to go against the Church and use birth control, but my Grandmother’s cycles were very unpredictable and she could never predict ovulation.

She of course cried every time she got pregnant and never wanted so many kids. It was also a big source of embarrassment because none of their friends had hat many and were baffled as to why they didn’t just use ABC or something.

They were dead broke.

Did they slink on down to he welfare office for a handout? Hell no. They would have died of humiliation. Instead, my grandfather worked all day at an average, low-paying job. My grandmother worked the night shift at a factory after the kids were asleep Grandma walked to work, worked until early morning, went to daily mass on the way home, and made it home in time to make everyone a hot breakfast and get the kids bathed and dressed for school. When they went to school, she slept for 4 hours and then woke up in time to make them all lunch (they would walk home for lunch). After lunch, she would change their clothes again and send them back to school. Then she would clean the house and do all of the laundry (by hand, no machines). Then she would make dinner for all 10 of them and always scrubbed he floor afterwards. She would give all he kids a bath and put them into fresh pyjamas before getting ready and going to work herself for the night. She also made a lot of their clothes by hand.

She did this for YEARS, because as she pu it, she would be damned if people were going to say “Look at those people with all those kids and they can’t even take care of them”. The kids were always clean, with freshly washed and ironed clothes andhe house was always immaculate. Never ONCE did they ask for anything from anyone.

THAT is how it’s done.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! and AMEN!!! and that LaSainte is how I was raised!!! In poverty but NEVER on the state because my parents didn’t believe in it!!!

 

[LaSainte]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! and AMEN!!! and that LaSainte is how I was raised!!! In poverty but NEVER on the state because my parents didn’t believe in it!!!

I so admire people like this, with a work ethic and a sense of pride that would have them rather fall into bed completely exhausted each night than to take the easy way out and get aid from the state. What ever happened to a good work ethic? What err happened to pride? Whatever happened to teaching our kids to stand on heir own 2 feet? Good for your parents for doing the right thing when it would have been easier not to!

 

[joclucsylv]

I so admire people like this, with a work ethic and a sense of pride that would have them rather fall into bed completely exhausted each night than to take the easy way out and get aid from the state. What ever happened to a good work ethic? What err happened to pride? Whatever happened to teaching our kids to stand on heir own 2 feet? Good for your parents for doing the right thing when it would have been easier not to!

Thank you!! Wouldn’t the USA be in a better place if there was a work ethic and not a welfare ethic.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

While I have little tolerance to those who abuse the welfare system, do you two-three that are against welfare to large families honestly believe that the government should Sterilize people with large families? If so that is Eugenics pure and simple.

 

[LaSainte]

While I have little tolerance to those who abuse the welfare system, do you two-three that are against welfare to large families honestly believe that the government should Sterilize people with large families? If so that is Eugenics pure and simple.

Well the government can’t force anyone to be sterilized, but honestly, I see nothing wrong with having to do something to prove that you’re actively trying NOT to have any more children if you are going to be collecting a check. Otherwise, feel free to get help from a Catholic charity that is more in line with your beliefs.

 

[maryjk]

Well the government can’t force anyone to be sterilized, but honestly, I see nothing wrong with having to do something to prove that you’re actively trying NOT to have any more children if you are going to be collecting a check. Otherwise, feel free to get help from a Catholic charity that is more in line with your beliefs.

And how would they prove that they are actively trying to not have more children?

Prove they are dumping chemicals in their body? Show that they have mutilated their body? What?