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LaSainte
Guest
I don’t think this is true. Sure God gives each child a soul, but He kind of set it up so that He doesn’t have to help create every single one.
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Sullibe
Guest
La Sainte, I’ve been thinking about your situation and what I really get the sense of is that you’re afraid. Of what, I’m not sure, maybe of not being able to care for you children financially, or maybe you’re just burnt out.
What I’m wondering, if you are Catholic, is have you discussed this with a priest? With your confessor or spiritual advisor? You’re attitude seems to go beyond frustration and into hatred, and that isn’t good for you or anyone else, nor does it accomplish anything.
As far as your taxes go, I am wondering if the confusion amongst us all maybe have been caused by you, unintentionally, confusing your “take home pay” with your taxable income. Two different things entirely. For a family of 4, married filing jointly, making 80,000 a year, their taxable income would be right at about 56,000. Just a thought, for clarification, purposes.
What I’m wondering, if you are Catholic, is have you discussed this with a priest? With your confessor or spiritual advisor? You’re attitude seems to go beyond frustration and into hatred, and that isn’t good for you or anyone else, nor does it accomplish anything.
As far as your taxes go, I am wondering if the confusion amongst us all maybe have been caused by you, unintentionally, confusing your “take home pay” with your taxable income. Two different things entirely. For a family of 4, married filing jointly, making 80,000 a year, their taxable income would be right at about 56,000. Just a thought, for clarification, purposes.
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joclucsylv
Guest
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LaSainte
Guest
There is no hatred here believe me. The people on this board just tend to get me riled up.
As far as taxable income goes, I honestly have no idea. I just know what my hubby’s salary is vs. what is printed on that deposit slip every 2 weeks and the math works out exactly the way I said. It sucks.
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1ke
Guest
Your ignorance and fear get the better of you.
Take a class. **Educate **yourself. Don’t be a fear-monger. Don’t throw out such melodramatic statements with no basis in fact. It’s unbecoming of an intelligent person such as yourself.
Perhaps talking to rayne89 or crohnie4life via PM would help you. They are posters on this forum who both have life threatening illnesses and both use NFP. Rayne has a congenital heart defect and crohnie has severe Crohn’s disease. They have both used NFP for over 15 years to avoid pregnancy under doctor’s advice not to get pregnant.
If someone has a serious reason to avoid pregnancy, NFP works just fine. You have to be serious about it.
Not “sort of” charting or “taking chances” as others over on that other thread have admitted regarding their pregnancies while supposedly using NFP. They all indicate they abaondoned the method with their short cuts, failure to chart, or willingness to engage in sex when their chart told them not to.
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Brendan
Guest
No it IS quite true.
Only God can create a new soul. Human may assist in the biology, but it is not within our power to create a soul.
That is a spiritual entitiy and the creation of such is entirely within God’s power alone.
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LaSainte
Guest
Yes, God creates souls. I agree with that. He creates them because we create bodies.
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LaSainte
Guest
Whatever you say Ike
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Flavius_Aetius
Guest
Joclucslyv
So do you have anything of value to say about Sullibe’s statement? I think it held more logic than the claim that the majority of welfare users are people who abuse the system…
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joclucsylv
Guest
Have you people read the whole thread? There should be absolutely NO welfare except for the disabled and the elderly. The rest of the yo yos who are healthy need to get their buts out there and get some work. I don’t care if it is a darn potato house. My parents used NFP and had 5 pregnancies. We were poverty and they NEVER EVER relied on the state. Now I am done :slapfight: with you people.
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silentstar
Guest
While I disagree with some of your opinions, I think it’s not appropriate to give you a hard time b/c things are difficult for you right now, you are really working and struggling. It is hard when people do everything right and find it difficult to hold on to middle-class status.
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LaSainte
Guest
Than you
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valentino
Guest
The welfare system is a bad idea at its core.it came about by people having the idea the money people were selfish.Lets assume that they are.They still don’t stop others from earning a living.We have laws in place which keep big companies from stifying growth of the middle class.We have laws against monopolies.People bought into this Wilson attitude that to combat this overly rich thing we must have government step in and give freely to people.Unfortunalely this growth in believers continue to this day.This socialist idea is going to destroy America IMO.WE Aren’t a socialist nation at heart.Our nation was founded and lasted only because it wasn’t socialistic.
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Sullibe
Guest
I’m going to go out on a limb, but I’m guessing most of that “disappearing” every month is in the form of health insurance payments, possibly dental and vision insurance, Social security taxes and medicare taxes (both are separate from income tax), pension plans, retirement plans, and random other expenses etc… etc… Combine that with the income tax that is being taken out, and yeah it probably amounts to a lot, unfortunately. But most of it, I’m betting, is not income tax.There is no hatred here believe me. The people on this board just tend to get me riled up.
As far as taxable income goes, I honestly have no idea. I just know what my hubby’s salary is vs. what is printed on that deposit slip every 2 weeks and the math works out exactly the way I said. It sucks.
And for the record, let me be clear, I do think it would be much better if private organizations controlled the “welfare” in this country to help the poor and less fortunate. Most private organizations (Catholic Charities, Lutheran Services, Food Pantries, etc… etc…) can and do run things more efficiently and effectively than the government. At this point I think my 6 year old could run things more efficiently and effectively than the government, and I don’t know if that says more about my 6 year old or more about the state of the government.
And I do agree that there are people who woefully abuse the system and there needs to be a checks and balances within the system. Something that involves job placements, drug testing, volunteering, and maybe even counseling. I don’t have a thought out plan, mainly because I have no intention of ever running for public office. I get overwhelmed in Wal-Mart, public office would be soooo much worse.
But I do not and will not be in favor of ANYTHING that requires sterilization, either permanent or via contraception, in order to receive help, regardless of where that help comes from. That would be an even more serious breach of the freedom of religion; it would be out-right religious discrimination.
I also feel that lumping everyone in together, saying that anyone who is not disabled or sick, is abusing the system and they don’t have a quality work ethic, is judging people you don’t know. I consider myself to have a very high work ethic, but there is NO starting job that will pay me enough to even cover day care costs, let alone make anything more. We only recently made the decision, because we do qualify, to begin WIC because of my youngest son being underweight. My hope is by this time next year we won’t have to continue to use this service, despite the fact that we will still qualify, but at the current time it is helpful to supplement the extra nutrition he needs.
I guess, I just don’t appreciate being, what feels like, personally attacked for a situation that I did not plan one ever being in, that you don’t really know anything about, and that I wish was not the case, but it is.
I am hoping that we can come to an understanding that will lead to more fruitful and less confrontational conversations.
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silentstar
Guest
Many people but not everyone have made an exception for disability. I’m on social security disability for bipolar disorder. I went on social security disability and retired after 18 years of working as an adult. I had a very severe manic episode and it was that or commit suicide. I then had a really bad patch with 6 (name removed by moderator)atient psychiatric hospitalizations but started improving after the last one.I’m going to go out on a limb, but I’m guessing most of that “disappearing” every month is in the form of health insurance payments, possibly dental and vision insurance, Social security taxes and medicare taxes (both are separate from income tax), pension plans, retirement plans, and random other expenses etc… etc… Combine that with the income tax that is being taken out, and yeah it probably amounts to a lot, unfortunately. But most of it, I’m betting, is not income tax.
And for the record, let me be clear, I do think it would be much better if private organizations controlled the “welfare” in this country to help the poor and less fortunate. Most private organizations (Catholic Charities, Lutheran Services, Food Pantries, etc… etc…) can and do run things more efficiently and effectively than the government. At this point I think my 6 year old could run things more efficiently and effectively than the government, and I don’t know if that says more about my 6 year old or more about the state of the government.
And I do agree that there are people who woefully abuse the system and there needs to be a checks and balances within the system. Something that involves job placements, drug testing, volunteering, and maybe even counseling. I don’t have a thought out plan, mainly because I have no intention of ever running for public office. I get overwhelmed in Wal-Mart, public office would be soooo much worse.
But I do not and will not be in favor of ANYTHING that requires sterilization, either permanent or via contraception, in order to receive help, regardless of where that help comes from. That would be an even more serious breach of the freedom of religion; it would be out-right religious discrimination.
I also feel that lumping everyone in together, saying that anyone who is not disabled or sick, is abusing the system and they don’t have a quality work ethic, is judging people you don’t know. I consider myself to have a very high work ethic, but there is NO starting job that will pay me enough to even cover day care costs, let alone make anything more. We only recently made the decision, because we do qualify, to begin WIC because of my youngest son being underweight. My hope is by this time next year we won’t have to continue to use this service, despite the fact that we will still qualify, but at the current time it is helpful to supplement the extra nutrition he needs.
I guess, I just don’t appreciate being, what feels like, personally attacked for a situation that I did not plan one ever being in, that you don’t really know anything about, and that I wish was not the case, but it is.
I am hoping that we can come to an understanding that will lead to more fruitful and less confrontational conversations.
September 2008 was when I went on disability and I’ve improved a lot since then although I had another manic episode after my uncle died. There are people who think that disabled people on assistance basically should not leave the house; I’ve seen the ability to run errands used as a criteria for returning to work. However when it’s mental health you often need to get out of the house and do chores and see people otherwise it’s difficult to improve.
I do think that people on disability could be abusing the system if they take very expensive vacations; I knew someone who qualified for disability retirement and almost immediately traveled from the US to Italy for a really nice vacation; we aren’t in touch partly b/c I wondered why she was making certain choices. This happened before I went on disability. But just b/c someone can drive a car does not mean he or she can go back to work.
That said, I think there is something to be said for bettering yourself - as several people on this thread have mentioned - and I have a lot of possessions (mostly books), the vast majority accumulated before I went on disability. I’m starting to sell some of the extra I own and using that to pay off personal debt that I’ve incurred through getting treatment is a way to start improving things. Books don’t tend to have a good resale value but any money is better than none.
I use my disability income to pay for my treatment, psychotherapy, medication, and other doctor/dentist bills and for some spending money but most of it goes to treatment. After selling my excess stuff I’m going to work on ways to start earning money.
I don’t see the views so much as personal attacks; I do think it’s good people take advantage of programs when they need to and improve their lives and get off them if they can. That can take time though. The problem with going back to work too soon with mental illness is that if you deteriorate you are right back where you were before, but I type really well
and it’s possible to do small jobs like typing manuscripts at the beginning. I’ve also done a lot of volunteer work.It’s hard to write without sounding defensive but I don’t know if anyone else who gets assistance reads threads like this, other than the 1 or 2 who have mentioned it.
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silentstar
Guest
I don’t advocate sterilization for people getting assistance. Speaking personally I have no plans to have a child while on assistance although I’m not sure it would change anything about the assistance I receive. Other people make different choices and I’m not comfortable judging them. I can see how people who are hard-working resent these programs but in the world of mental health in many ways you essentially cannot be treated without money and my husband and I don’t have the means or the family support (I did try asking) to pay for psychotherapy and medication and the other costs. Additionally I pay something like 400.00 or 500.00 per month out of this assistance to maintain insurance and dental coverage through a continuity program that kicked in after I left work, but if I were not getting assistance I would not have any decent insurance at all most likely. The medications alone are very expensive with copays of 150 to 200 US per month although when Seroquel goes generic at the end of this year that may change. So in many ways I get money and pay it out b/c my husband can’t afford to both pay our bills and pay for treatment, and we don’t have kids and would not consider it unless things really changed which is not likely, but other issues like medication compliance are relevant with pregnancy.
I am conscious of how fortunate I am in this situation.
I am conscious of how fortunate I am in this situation.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Off topic question…do you get a refund? Because by doing that you give the government an interest free loan. See if you can decrease how much is taken out per paycheck…and forgo the refund.There is no hatred here believe me. The people on this board just tend to get me riled up.
As far as taxable income goes, I honestly have no idea. I just know what my hubby’s salary is vs. what is printed on that deposit slip every 2 weeks and the math works out exactly the way I said. It sucks.
J
joclucsylv
Guest
You say you are not in favor of the state stepping in to sterilize.I’m going to go out on a limb, but I’m guessing most of that “disappearing” every month is in the form of health insurance payments, possibly dental and vision insurance, Social security taxes and medicare taxes (both are separate from income tax), pension plans, retirement plans, and random other expenses etc… etc… Combine that with the income tax that is being taken out, and yeah it probably amounts to a lot, unfortunately. But most of it, I’m betting, is not income tax.
And for the record, let me be clear, I do think it would be much better if private organizations controlled the “welfare” in this country to help the poor and less fortunate. Most private organizations (Catholic Charities, Lutheran Services, Food Pantries, etc… etc…) can and do run things more efficiently and effectively than the government. At this point I think my 6 year old could run things more efficiently and effectively than the government, and I don’t know if that says more about my 6 year old or more about the state of the government.
And I do agree that there are people who woefully abuse the system and there needs to be a checks and balances within the system. Something that involves job placements, drug testing, volunteering, and maybe even counseling. I don’t have a thought out plan, mainly because I have no intention of ever running for public office. I get overwhelmed in Wal-Mart, public office would be soooo much worse.
But I do not and will not be in favor of ANYTHING that requires sterilization, either permanent or via contraception, in order to receive help, regardless of where that help comes from. That would be an even more serious breach of the freedom of religion; it would be out-right religious discrimination.
I also feel that lumping everyone in together, saying that anyone who is not disabled or sick, is abusing the system and they don’t have a quality work ethic, is judging people you don’t know. I consider myself to have a very high work ethic, but there is NO starting job that will pay me enough to even cover day care costs, let alone make anything more. We only recently made the decision, because we do qualify, to begin WIC because of my youngest son being underweight. My hope is by this time next year we won’t have to continue to use this service, despite the fact that we will still qualify, but at the current time it is helpful to supplement the extra nutrition he needs.
I guess, I just don’t appreciate being, what feels like, personally attacked for a situation that I did not plan one ever being in, that you don’t really know anything about, and that I wish was not the case, but it is.
I am hoping that we can come to an understanding that will lead to more fruitful and less confrontational conversations.
On CNN, the reporter asked the prosecter is Casey Anthony was a danger to society. The prosecuter told the reporter that she is not a danger to society, but is she has more kids she is definitely a danger. Guess what…she wants more kids. Should the state step in and sterlize that women. My opinion is yes. Just sayin…
Mary_Gail_36
New member
The Jury found her not guilty…why should she be sterilized?
If she were found guilty, then she would be incarcerated…in a woman’s prison for the rest of her life.
If she still managed to get pregnant, she would not be able to keep custody of her baby.
Prosecuter should have done a better job convicting.
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