NFP and Periods of Abstinence

[starrball]

I seem to have it in my head that we’re supposed to live almost like brother and sister during this time, but I don’t think that’s right. Can someone give me a clearer breakdown of what is and isn’t ok? (I’m still adjusting to life with 3 kids, the baby is almost 3 months and I am not ready physically mentally or emotionally to have another kid just yet. )

 

[1ke]

The Creighton Model refers to this as SPICE: Spiritual, Physical, Intellectual, Creative, and Emotional.

You avoid genital contact, but not sexual contact. You communicate in non-genital ways.

Spiritual: prayer, verbal communication of love and appreciation. Developing ourselves spiritually and putting God at the center of the relationship.

Physical: Hugging, kissing, holding hands, cuddling, back rubs, learning the difference between affirming touch and arousing touch. Physical expressions of love and intimacy between the spoues AND with the children (hugging, playing, kissing, etc). Also, physical activities done together such as walking, sports, etc.

Intellectual - gorwing as a couple with reading material, shared discussions, discussions about the family. Verbal intimacy.

Creative/Communicative - doing special things-- a dinner, a creative gesture of love, fun and romance. Doing something for the other person-- around the house or something that says “I love you”. Thoughtful gestures. (this is similar to the Love Languages book, finding ways that communicate love in your SO’s “love language”)

Emotional/Psychological: Reserve special time for yourselves to talk, away from children. Practice putting spouse first. Expres feelings. Be supportive. Vent frustrations and find appropriate ways to deal with issues. Create bonding time together.

 

[starrball]

That’s actually a pretty helpful acronym. I just discovered the tag features on the posts here and found some useful information.

I forgot to mention part of the difficulty in figuring this out is my husband is not a believer. ( No one needs to get on a high horse and say I messed up by marrying him, while I was seeking when we got married, I didn’t enter the church until almost a year later. )

Here’s what I found:
"Now, when you are married, you have conjugal rights. It is not sinful for you to have sex (even when you’re fertile.). It is not sinful to get caught up in the moment. "

This was a helpful perspective.

“Where the sin in this area would lie are two areas. 1. Substituting other sexual acts for intercourse by diverting and deriving ways to stimulate each other in a manner that violates the procreative meaning of sexuality. 2. Putting the other in a situation where the continence/abstainence is not mutual. You should not be having to be playing gatekeeper with your spouse saying “thou shall not pass!!” And simply restricting to lesser and lesser expressions of love does not mean that you’re not playing gatekeeper.”

This was also very helpful. 2 simple rules to largely spell it out. I feel like a gatekeeper because technically it’s not really mutual, because he doesn’t share my views. Despite being the wife I find myself ruling the roost a bit to keep things in line - how we handle intimacy and family planning, remaining open to life (he said upfront he would be happy with just 2 kids - I want to leave it up to God (and practice responsible nfp) - guess who wins) , how we raise the children, making sure faith and morals take priority… that sort of thing.

And I find myself ruling the roost when it comes to NFP. I make a serious effort when I’m not really tired during infertile times to be available to meet his needs, but especially when watching for my cycle to return post-partum, I find myself imposing long periods of abstinence. I feel bad so I try to be extra available for cuddling, but usually wants to take it a bit further than I’m comfortable. I’d prefer if he stayed above the waist period, but then I’m telling him no. Am I being too strict?

(actually I sometimes struggle with this when it comes to non-fertile times too, when we’re just around the house but I’m in the middle of something and I’m not mentally ready to engage in sex at the moment-but am open to the possibility later in the day. Is that any different??? On the one hand I want to be extra generous during the fertile time while I’m making him wait - on the other hand I want to be more generous and receptive and into him to keep the sparks alive etc in between periods of intimacy)

How do I balance his needs with ‘forcing’ NFP on him?

 

[starrball]

Also, I’ve run the Love Languages past him and says his is physical touch, so I feel that much worse when denying certain levels of intimacy etc.

 

[SonCatcher]

Also, I’ve run the Love Languages past him and says his is physical touch, so I feel that much worse when denying certain levels of intimacy etc.

So am I. If my wife gives me a shoulder rub, I’m good (really!) - physical touch doesn’t require sex.

 

[28562]

So am I. If my wife gives me a shoulder rub, I’m good (really!) - physical touch doesn’t require sex.

Yep, me too. It doesn’t have to be sex, but if my wife goes out of her way to kiss me or touch me somehow, it means a lot. It certainly doesn’t have to be any kind of sexual touch (although I certainly don’t mind that), but if it is a touch that is clearer on purpose and out of the ordinary, I’m good. Almost nothing makes me happier.

 

[twoangels]

I seem to have it in my head that we’re supposed to live almost like brother and sister during this time, but I don’t think that’s right. Can someone give me a clearer breakdown of what is and isn’t ok? (I’m still adjusting to life with 3 kids, the baby is almost 3 months and I am not ready physically mentally or emotionally to have another kid just yet. )

Personally, I don’t think there are clear guidelines, though there are probably plenty of people who will give you theirs and assert them as absolute.

As a friend of mine said, chastity in marriage is different because you CAN have sex. It is not a sin to have sex during your fertile time. When you’re dating it is, so when a couple makes out and gets very passionate, they are putting each other in a near occassion of sin. When they do this while they’re fertile, they’re not. The couple can always decide to engage in intercourse.

The issue is that we cannot substitute other behaviors for intercourse. We can’t get ourselves to the point where we become tempted to do sexual things in place of intercourse. The question is are you going to find yourself in a situation where the urge for intercourse hits you and you decide to do other stimulation in place of it. Using other behavior in place of intercourse is not abstainence and thus immoral.

As such, the question is how important is abstaining/avoiding babies to you? If its very important, it may require you be more strict. There are points where you don’t know if things will lead to intercourse, but they could and you might decide to avoid those too rather than risk the temptation to do other things in place of intercourse.

Personally though I don’t think its about where you touch and what not. Something I’ve learned about sexuality is that it really is nothing like a baseball game. Sometimes passions can stir from the smallest acts of love. Sometimes it takes more warming up. Sometimes resisting the warm up stuff can be a bit of a tease and lead the small stuff to make you intensely passionate.

 

[SummerSmiles]

As a friend of mine said, chastity in marriage is different because you CAN have sex. It is not a sin to have sex during your fertile time. When you’re dating it is, so when a couple makes out and gets very passionate, they are putting each other in a near occassion of sin. When they do this while they’re fertile, they’re not. The couple can always decide to engage in intercourse.

The issue is that we cannot substitute other behaviors for intercourse. We can’t get ourselves to the point where we become tempted to do sexual things in place of intercourse. The question is are you going to find yourself in a situation where the urge for intercourse hits you and you decide to do other stimulation in place of it. Using other behavior in place of intercourse is not abstainence and thus immoral.

Well said. This is going to differ widely from one couple to the next. Something that is incredibly arousing for one couple may not be so for another couple. You and your spouse will just need to find out where that line is in your relationship. Talk with each other and be respectful of what makes abstinence more difficult for the other person. If something is arousing to your spouse, it would probably be best to avoid doing it when you must abstain from sex.

I don’t think you need to think of it as “living as brother and sister” during those fertile periods when you’re trying to avoid a pregnancy. It’s not sinful for you to “give in” and have sex during a fertile period. It’s not sinful for you to desire your spouse during those times, either. You are married, and you don’t have the same sort of limits put on your sexuality as a couple who is not married. Something becomes sinful if you’re looking for some physical release in place of sexual intercourse. Nothing should substitute for intercourse.

 

[starrball]

Thank you everyone, you have been extremely helpful. I think I get it now.

“As a friend of mine said, chastity in marriage is different because you CAN have sex. It is not a sin to have sex during your fertile time. When you’re dating it is, so when a couple makes out and gets very passionate, they are putting each other in a near occassion of sin. When a married couple do this while they’re fertile, they’re not. The couple can always decide to engage in intercourse.”

This is not a sin then, even when it would not be prudent to have a baby? (I think if there was a serious health issue it would be different and not a problem. He understands the 5 weeks after giving birth etc.) I believe that regardless God is in control, and he will provide for each child he chooses to bless us with, so I wouldn’t worry too much. I think we will have a little discussion about whether he is opposed enough to having too big a family that he would want us to abstain, and if not then I wouldn’t even have to worry about it! (Like I said, he thinks even 4 kids is a lot while I see myself perfectly happy raising 5 or 6 - spaced out a bit so I don’t go crazy He also buys into the overpopulation myth and I have yet to find a trusted source that will show him otherwise. The main website with the videos didn’t convince him though he agreed some of the points are true… but he still thinks we’ll use up all the earth’s resources. I’d love to be able to show him that there’s nothing wrong with having more kids.)

“The question is are you going to find yourself in a situation where the urge for intercourse hits you and you decide to do other stimulation in place of it?”

No. I know the church’s teaching on this. If we decided we weren’t going to stop we’d have sex.

" It’s not sinful for you to “give in” and have sex during a fertile period. It’s not sinful for you to desire your spouse during those times, either. "

“Something becomes sinful if you’re looking for some physical release in place of sexual intercourse. Nothing should substitute for intercourse.”

That means if one of us arouses the other to the point that we start to feel the urge - but not strong - there is no sin either? I found myself deliberately avoiding any chance of either of us even feeling the pull. If there is no problem with that then I think my husband will be
much happier with NFP. It frustrates him greatly when I find myself playing gatekeeper.

If the ONLY sin is in substituting something else we should be fine.

 

[SusanneT]

I’m sure everyone deals with abstinence differently and it is a real challenge to strike a balance which maintains intimacy but doesn’t stray into overtly sexual activity.

 

[starrball]

Err, what I wrote wasn’t quite what I meant so I’ll clarify:

That means if one of us ENDS UP arousing the other (when that was not the intent) to the point that we start to feel the urge - but not strong - there is no sin either?

There is a big difference between being sweet and affectionate and being deliberately sexual.

If the ONLY sin is in DELIBERATELY substituting something else WHILE NOT ENGAGING IN INTERCOURSE we should be fine.

 

[SonCatcher]

Err, what I wrote wasn’t quite what I meant so I’ll clarify:

That means if one of us ENDS UP arousing the other (when that was not the intent) to the point that we start to feel the urge - but not strong - there is no sin either?

Hopefully, each spouse is familiar enough with his/her hot buttons to know what activities will cause arousal (so the couple can choose other activities). If one spouse senses that he/she is beginning to be aroused anyway and it is possible to prevent full arousal, they should stop (if they have reason to avoid pregnancy) so the affected spouse can attempt to calm his/her emotions.

If the affected spouse turns out to be fully aroused, they should complete the act in order to avoid sin.

There is a big difference between being sweet and affectionate and being deliberately sexual.

Sometimes I get turned on just by kissing, however.

If the ONLY sin is in DELIBERATELY substituting something else WHILE NOT ENGAGING IN INTERCOURSE we should be fine.

Looks like you understand.