NFP disaster. Any advice?

[Dulcie]

DH and I have been married for a couple of months now. I started trying to learn about NFP a few months ahead of our wedding. At first I tried to do sympto-thermal by reading Taking Charge of Your Fertility (a recommendation I found on here), and bought a thermometer. It wasn’t a success: there was no pattern to my temperatures at all, and I was completely confused by cervical fluids.

I got really upset about it, so now-DH insisted on swallowing the expense of the ClearBlue kits and doing Marquette instead. So we did. I tracked for three months ahead of the wedding, and apart from the odd day where there was an error in recording the test, all seemed to be going really well: I recorded my peak days each month for those three months, and so although we were only halfway through the six month preliminary period of data-recording that Marquette requires, everything seemed to be fine and we were happy with a conservative first three months while we recorded the rest of the data, hoping for more days together after that. Except that, immediately following our marriage, the monitor is now no longer recording peak days for me: I end up doing 20 tests which consist of a couple of lows followed by highs for the rest of the cycle and no peak. We absolutely cannot have a baby just now: I have had to move countries to be with my new DH, and settling in here is at times an enormous strain. We’re also working on my job situation. So having a child immediately is not an option. But at the moment, as newlyweds, we are only able to be intimate for 5 days a month after my period starts, for 2 or 3 of which I feel physically pretty disgusting as well as being in pain and don’t really want much intimacy anyway. It’s putting a big strain on things. We have read Simcha Fisher’s Sinner’s Guide to NFP, and it’s very good, but obviously it doesn’t have any practical advice to offer. There is no NFP clinic or advice here.

I have no idea what to do. Marquette was supposed to be the foolproof option, and it is failing us. Has anyone any suggestions for where we might go from here? Kindness in replies would be very much appreciated: this coming on top of a huge change in circumstances has made me feel quite fragile, and both of us are feeling pretty hopeless right now.

 

[Kelfa28]

Honey, I’m so sorry.

Have you posted any questions on the Marquette forum? You have to pay a subscription fee for it now but I remember posting on it several years ago and they have professionals in the Marquette method regularly reading the forum and posting replies to each question that pops up.

I’m reading this thread with great interest by the way…Hubby and I are about to drop the money to purchase this monitor out of desperation because I simply do not trust my any other form of NFP.

We absolutely can’t have a baby either.

I’d be absolutely done and totally crushed if this doesn’t work for us. I don’t want to lose $300 for a system that also doesn’t work.

 

[white_sheep]

We have used it for about 9 months I think. In the last 4 months or so, 2 did not ever show a peak. In the literature it says this happens 7% of the time, I think that was the number, which I interpretted as one cycle per year. So this will happen sometimes. I don’t know if it is more accurate to use a cup or the stream.

Things you could do: Use an additional form of test such as the cheap lh strips. If you have detected lh on day 13-15 the past 3 months, then perhaps use a strip also starting day 11 or so. Don’t ask me how, maybe use a catch basin.

Record your high and peak days. The monitor tests for estrogen levels as well. When it detects an increase in estrogen it changes to high, and then when it detects lh a few days later it changes to peak. If you get a high reading it is likely that your peak will come a few days later. Probably what happens is that due to timing the lh surge happened between tests. It may have started just before the test and been below the threshold and then dropped down too low by the next test. Maybe taking an extra test with a strip in the afternoon on likely days would be a good way to catch this, even though they say morning is the best.

Use the extra info from the monitor to better learn about the physical signs. You get the peak reading and then think back about whether the last several day’s signs were different.

Incorporate a little guesswork from the calendar. Your last 12 cycles were between x and x days long and you peaked on x to x day, this month you got a high reading on the same day as usual, you can probably expect peak on a similar day, watch the signs closely.

Airplane travel will throw off your cycle, usually delaying peak. I am sure moving to another country will mess it up as well.

She found the strips to be aggravating and difficult to interpret and the monitor gives very clear answers. We have found it to be a useful tool even though it missed peak a few times and seems geared to burn up unnecessary test sticks. It lacks features I wish it had, such as reporting so you have to record your daily results. It isn’t geared towards doing just one test, as it is supposed to track levels of hormones for comparison to calculate increases in estrogen or something.

These are just my thoughts, not from any kind of “official” source.

 

[kptrs]

Honey, I’m so sorry.

Have you posted any questions on the Marquette forum? You have to pay a subscription fee for it now but I remember posting on it several years ago and they have professionals in the Marquette method regularly reading the forum and posting replies to each question that pops up.

I’m reading this thread with great interest by the way…Hubby and I are about to drop the money to purchase this monitor out of desperation because I simply do not trust my any other form of NFP.

We absolutely can’t have a baby either.

I’d be absolutely done and totally crushed if this doesn’t work for us. I don’t want to lose $300 for a system that also doesn’t work.

The monitor will miss the LH surge in 1 out of 10 cycles due to the LH surge occurring in the evening. You can catch it by using a Clearblue OPK in the evening. Though double check with Marquette before taking my advice.

 

[Lorelei12]

This has happened to me many times, but mainly when I’ve had long cycles (in other words, the monitor is working fine and showing me that there’s an issue).

The advice to use another OPK in the evenings is good. That way you can ensure that you aren’t missing anything in the morning.

It is very possible that you have been so stressed out from getting married and moving that you aren’t ovulating as well, and the monitor is working fine. It’s not going to show a peak if there is none to show.

Also, if you feel it’s possible that you may not have ovulated yet, you can reset the monitor to double-check. For instance, there have been times where I’ve gotten a high reading, but I can tell (by CM consistency and just “knowing”) that I dropped back to low. I’ll re-set the monitor and lo and behold, it’s a low. (Once you get a high reading, it will continue to read “high” until you either get a peak or have passed 20 days.) It doesn’t change the fact that you still have to abstain, but it can give you a better picture of what is going on.

Remember that no method, Marquette included, is “foolproof”. Before concluding that the method is “failing” you, consider the possibility that there is a learning curve to using any method, as well as the possibility that you may not even be ovulating.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I use Marquette as well, and have done so for about 16 months, including postpartum. I also spend a fair amount of time in a Marquette support group on Facebook which, if you’re on FB, I can highly recommend because there are a number of instructors in it who don’t mind giving advice pertinent to a given situation.

Several points:

–First, how are you testing? If you’re dipping the stick for the suggested 15 seconds rather than peeing directly on it, it’s more accurate–no chance of washing off the antibodies. I use a small bathroom cup. Also, is your urine concentrated? I.e., are you waking up at 3 AM, using the bathroom, and then peeing again to test only a couple of hours later? This is why it missed peak for me the first time, I suspect; DD was still waking up at night sometimes, and I couldn’t sleep unless I used the bathroom first. (If this happens to you, you can save your urine to test later.)

–Second, yes, it does happen that the monitor misses peak sometimes. It’s done so once before for me, and I believe it may have again this cycle because of traveling. What I do (we’re loosely TTC right now, so I didn’t this cycle–boo on not being sure!) is use cheap LH strips at night around peak time to double-check. You can get 100 of them online for not very much; I think I spent about $30, and they’re well worth the money. The LH (luteinizing hormone) strips are also known as OPKs (ovulation predictor kits); they look for one of the two hormones that the monitor tests for, the hormone that only appears around ovulation. You can consider a positive OPK a “peak” reading. Another alternative is to use Clear Blue’s digital ovulation predictors at night; they don’t require interpretation from you, though they are decidedly pricier.

–Third, one thing to consider: you mentioned that you are under a great deal of stress. Stress can delay ovulation or even produce anovulatory cycles. This may or may not have happened to you, but it’s possible that the monitor isn’t wrong, and that’s why you haven’t gotten a Peak–you haven’t peaked! The semester I was in grad school and under horrendous stress, I had one 60±day-long cycle because my body wasn’t going to try to ovulate under those conditions.

–Last, lest I sound like an NFP cheerleader, I wanted to say that I’m not. I’m a firm believer in using whichever method is best for a particular couple in whatever situation they’re in at the time, don’t really care what it is, and think that NFP is Not Fun at the best of times. I also don’t want the above advice to come across as shaming at all; NFP is such a very sensitive subject! Tone of voice is very hard to convey over text sometimes, so imagine my offering the suggestions I’m offering in a genuine spirit of “I hope this works out for you” rather than “you must have made a mistake because this method can never, ever result in extra abstinence!”

I do think that Marquette has a lower chance of error due to the fact that it’s objective rather than subjective, but that’s something that works best with my personality. Give the above suggestions a try, and yes, have a chat with either an instructor or on the Marquette forums, who may be able to offer something that I haven’t thought of yet.

 

[Neofight]

1. We absolutely cannot have a baby just now:
2. So having a child immediately is not an option.
3. I have no idea what to do. ,both of us are feeling pretty hopeless right now.

What I am about to say may appear harsh, but it is offered with all charity and empathy.

Let’s work through this in reverse order:

1. Pray. Others, including myself, will pray with and for you.
2. The timing for having a child is never an option. We are called to be open to having children if and when God decides, and if you become pregnant even using NFP, that is His will and not an “option” for us to decide on.
3. You can. There are many difficult things we face in life that we thing are impossible situations, but with God, all things are possible. Whether we are “ready” or not, life is always a gift and a blessing from God.

Peace and all good!

 

[Dulcie]

Honey, I’m so sorry.

Have you posted any questions on the Marquette forum? You have to pay a subscription fee for it now but I remember posting on it several years ago and they have professionals in the Marquette method regularly reading the forum and posting replies to each question that pops up.

I’m reading this thread with great interest by the way…Hubby and I are about to drop the money to purchase this monitor out of desperation because I simply do not trust my any other form of NFP.

We absolutely can’t have a baby either.

I’d be absolutely done and totally crushed if this doesn’t work for us. I don’t want to lose $300 for a system that also doesn’t work.

Thank you so much.

I didn’t know about the Marquette forums. Would you mind posting a link? I just had a look online, but the only forum I can find says it has no posts so I think I’m missing something.

I am so sorry that you are also having such a difficult time. I just said a prayer for you and your husband. I guess the only thing that could be said for Marquette in your situation is that at least if it’s not working, you know it’s not working. There’s no “did I read my body correctly” stress as such.

 

[UbiCaritas]

What I am about to say may appear harsh, but it is offered with all charity and empathy.

Let’s work through this in reverse order:

1. Pray. Others, including myself, will pray with and for you.
2. The timing for having a child is never an option. We are called to be open to having children if and when God decides, and if you become pregnant even using NFP, that is His will and not an “option” for us to decide on.
3. You can. There are many difficult things we face in life that we thing are impossible situations, but with God, all things are possible. Whether we are “ready” or not, life is always a gift and a blessing from God.

Peace and all good!

We don’t know the reason why the OP can’t get pregnant right now, and it’s not our decision anyway: the Church quite clearly says that that’s a decision to be left up to the couple.

As just one possibility (and OP, you needn’t answer this if you don’t want to), depending on immigration restrictions in the country she’s now living in, the OP getting pregnant might result in setting back her immigration status, even to the point of legally requiring her to leave the country (and therefore her husband) for the duration of the pregnancy. A pregnant woman with no one to rely on for support and so forth is not in a very good position. A pregnant woman with no health insurance, place to live, way of getting prenatal care, etc is in a very bad place position indeed.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Thank you so much.

I didn’t know about the Marquette forums. Would you mind posting a link? I just had a look online, but the only forum I can find says it has no posts so I think I’m missing something.

I am so sorry that you are also having such a difficult time. I just said a prayer for you and your husband. I guess the only thing that could be said for Marquette in your situation is that at least if it’s not working, you know it’s not working. There’s no “did I read my body correctly” stress as such.

nfp.marquette.edu/portal/login.php

Tick the box that says “register” at the top left side of the page. It costs about $5/month, IIRC.

 

[Dulcie]

Probably what happens is that due to timing the lh surge happened between tests. It may have started just before the test and been below the threshold and then dropped down too low by the next test. Maybe taking an extra test with a strip in the afternoon on likely days would be a good way to catch this, even though they say morning is the best.

Incorporate a little guesswork from the calendar. Your last 12 cycles were between x and x days long and you peaked on x to x day, this month you got a high reading on the same day as usual, you can probably expect peak on a similar day, watch the signs closely.

I don’t quite understand the first point. I thought that the surge happened over 2 days (which is why the monitor records peak twice)? So how can it miss the surge within just 24 hours between tests?

Re the guesswork: other signs have been less clear these last two months (I was only watching more closely this second month, as I expected it to work during the first month). But I was always pretty rubbish at reading them: that’s why we switched to Marquette in the first place.

 

[Dulcie]

The monitor will miss the LH surge in 1 out of 10 cycles due to the LH surge occurring in the evening. You can catch it by using a Clearblue OPK in the evening. Though double check with Marquette before taking my advice.

Sorry, embarrassing ignorance here, but what’s an OPK?

 

[Dulcie]

It is very possible that you have been so stressed out from getting married and moving that you aren’t ovulating as well, and the monitor is working fine. It’s not going to show a peak if there is none to show.

Also, if you feel it’s possible that you may not have ovulated yet, you can reset the monitor to double-check. For instance, there have been times where I’ve gotten a high reading, but I can tell (by CM consistency and just “knowing”) that I dropped back to low. I’ll re-set the monitor and lo and behold, it’s a low. (Once you get a high reading, it will continue to read “high” until you either get a peak or have passed 20 days.) It doesn’t change the fact that you still have to abstain, but it can give you a better picture of what is going on.

I had thought of the possibility that stress and anxiety could be interfering somehow, but I hadn’t quite thought that ovulation might not have occurred at all. It doesn’t seem to be interfering with menstruation, particularly, and cervical fluids do seem to be changing somewhat - though not as much as sometimes. But perhaps that is normal, even if there is no ovulation.

Interesting suggestion re resetting the monitor. I suppose its readings must be based partly on actual data and partly on probability, then.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I had thought of the possibility that stress and anxiety could be interfering somehow, but I hadn’t quite thought that ovulation might not have occurred at all. It doesn’t seem to be interfering with menstruation, particularly, and cervical fluids do seem to be changing somewhat - though not as much as sometimes. But perhaps that is normal, even if there is no ovulation.

Interesting suggestion re resetting the monitor. I suppose its readings must be based partly on actual data and partly on probability, then.

Yep, anovulatory cycles can result in a “period” afterwards…fun, no?

The monitor bases its readings on comparing prior readings to the current ones; it determines when to test based on probability. Should your cycles even out, and if you tend to ovulate later in the cycle, it may start asking for tests only beginning Day 9 rather than Day 6; it did that for me prior to a recent miscarriage because I never ovulated before Day 15-16.

 

[Dulcie]

I use Marquette as well, and have done so for about 16 months, including postpartum. I also spend a fair amount of time in a Marquette support group on Facebook which, if you’re on FB, I can highly recommend because there are a number of instructors in it who don’t mind giving advice pertinent to a given situation.

Several points:

–First, how are you testing? If you’re dipping the stick for the suggested 15 seconds rather than peeing directly on it, it’s more accurate–no chance of washing off the antibodies. I use a small bathroom cup. Also, is your urine concentrated? I.e., are you waking up at 3 AM, using the bathroom, and then peeing again to test only a couple of hours later? This is why it missed peak for me the first time, I suspect; DD was still waking up at night sometimes, and I couldn’t sleep unless I used the bathroom first. (If this happens to you, you can save your urine to test later.)

–Second, yes, it does happen that the monitor misses peak sometimes. It’s done so once before for me, and I believe it may have again this cycle because of traveling. What I do (we’re loosely TTC right now, so I didn’t this cycle–boo on not being sure!) is use cheap LH strips at night around peak time to double-check. You can get 100 of them online for not very much; I think I spent about $30, and they’re well worth the money. The LH (luteinizing hormone) strips are also known as OPKs (ovulation predictor kits); they look for one of the two hormones that the monitor tests for, the hormone that only appears around ovulation. You can consider a positive OPK a “peak” reading. Another alternative is to use Clear Blue’s digital ovulation predictors at night; they don’t require interpretation from you, though they are decidedly pricier.

–Third, one thing to consider: you mentioned that you are under a great deal of stress. Stress can delay ovulation or even produce anovulatory cycles. This may or may not have happened to you, but it’s possible that the monitor isn’t wrong, and that’s why you haven’t gotten a Peak–you haven’t peaked! The semester I was in grad school and under horrendous stress, I had one 60±day-long cycle because my body wasn’t going to try to ovulate under those conditions.

Thank you so much for this wonderful, helpful post. To reply to your points above:

1. I had no idea that testing in a cup was more accurate. Method will be changing starting from tomorrow - thank you! But the other point is not relevant, no, as I almost never get up during the night to use the bathroom.
2. Could you explain that slightly further? Am I right in understanding that you do double-testing, using both the ClearBlue monitor sticks between 5AM-11AM, and then again around midnight using one of the LH strips? (Thanks for clarifying OPK for me, by the way!) That I could definitely do.
3. I am still menstruating pretty normally, so while it had occurred to me that stress could be affecting results, I had not realised that I might not have peaked. Is it possible not to peak but still to have normal menstruation? I haven’t had anything like the 60 day cycle (!) you mention.

 

[misspriss]

I don’t quite understand the first point. I thought that the surge happened over 2 days (which is why the monitor records peak twice)? So how can it miss the surge within just 24 hours between tests?

Re the guesswork: other signs have been less clear these last two months (I was only watching more closely this second month, as I expected it to work during the first month). But I was always pretty rubbish at reading them: that’s why we switched to Marquette in the first place.

No. This is not how the monitor works. When you start using the sticks (I strongly recommend dipping in a cup rather than midstream), the monitor is looking for an estrogen surge (although it will go straight to LH). The monitor is then programmed to look for an LH surge after, and will continue to read high (regardless of if the sticks are reading high or not) until it “times out” (10 sticks or 20 sticks) OR gets a peak reading. Once it gets a Peak reading, it will default to it’s programming and do a peak the next day and then a low, again, programming, regardless of the actual reading on the sticks.

I hope that is not confusing. LH surge can last as short as a few hours or be readable for two days. LH surge is more likely in the afternoon, however estrogen is highest in the morning. This is why clearblue has you test your urine in the AM, to catch the “high” reading (estrogen). Most people can still catch the peak (LH) reading, but because it occurs usually later it is entirely likely that you could miss it testing one morning and then peak in the afternoon and it be gone by the next morning. This is why it is recommended to use an LH only test, like an OPK test (you can get digital or analog “lines”) to cover the afternoon/evening. I never had to do this as I always caught my peak in the AM, and I used mucus signs as well.

Basically the monitor is a computer and has programming, once it reads a high it will continue to read high until it reads a peak or quits asking for sticks, regardless of the actual stick reading. Once it reads a peak, it automatically reads peak the next day and then low, regardless of what the sticks say. No reason to even pee on a stick after that first peak.

Yep, anovulatory cycles can result in a “period” afterwards…fun, no?

The monitor bases its readings on comparing prior readings to the current ones; it determines when to test based on probability. Should your cycles even out, and if you tend to ovulate later in the cycle, it may start asking for tests only beginning Day 9 rather than Day 6; it did that for me prior to a recent miscarriage because I never ovulated before Day 15-16.

Yeah, stress can can cause you not to ovulate, or to ovulate late, etc. Moving, getting married, etc will definitely do it. You will almost always have a “period” even if you haven’t ovulated. Your body geared up to ovulate and the lining built up (from estrogen), but didn’t thicken as much (no progesterone) so it will probably be lighter.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Thank you so much for this wonderful, helpful post. To reply to your points above:

1. I had no idea that testing in a cup was more accurate. Method will be changing starting from tomorrow - thank you! But the other point is not relevant, no, as I almost never get up during the night to use the bathroom.
2. Could you explain that slightly further? Am I right in understanding that you do double-testing, using both the ClearBlue monitor sticks between 5AM-11AM, and then again around midnight using one of the LH strips? (Thanks for clarifying OPK for me, by the way!) That I could definitely do.
3. I am still menstruating pretty normally, so while it had occurred to me that stress could be affecting results, I had not realised that I might not have peaked. Is it possible not to peak but still to have normal menstruation? I haven’t had anything like the 60 day cycle (!) you mention.

1. Glad I could help.
2. I test with the LH strip about 12 hours after the monitor test, so I usually do so at about 6-7 PM. That way, each test covers as much of the day as possible–does that make sense? I try not to drink a huge amount of water in the hours leading up to the OPK, and try not to have used the bathroom for an hour or two before testing at least.
3. Yes, you can have “menstruation” (I use quotes because it’s technically menstruation only if you did ovulate, I believe, but it can look like the same thing) without ovulating. It’s often, but not always, lighter than a regular period. And I don’t wish that 60-day cycle on anybody. Fortunately, I wasn’t married at the time, and I knew I couldn’t be pregnant, but it was definitely a “what the HECK is going on with my body?!” couple of months.

 

[Dulcie]

What I am about to say may appear harsh, but it is offered with all charity and empathy.

Let’s work through this in reverse order:

1. Pray. Others, including myself, will pray with and for you.
2. The timing for having a child is never an option. We are called to be open to having children if and when God decides, and if you become pregnant even using NFP, that is His will and not an “option” for us to decide on.
3. You can. There are many difficult things we face in life that we thing are impossible situations, but with God, all things are possible. Whether we are “ready” or not, life is always a gift and a blessing from God.

Peace and all good!

I appreciate what you are trying to say, I really do, and I am looking forward very much to becoming a mother, God willing. But getting married and moving countries is a very big change (leaving behind family, friends, country, language, culture, job, basically everything familiar) and after careful, prayerful consideration I really believe that I should not have a baby straight away. Of course if I actually became pregnant then it would not be an “option” at that point but rather a reality, which is exactly why I am trying to be so careful to postpone it while also trying to build a very new marriage and a very new life. We are called to be open to life, but it is my understanding that the responsible spacing of pregnancies is part of good parenthood.

Thank you for your prayers.

 

[misspriss]

1. I am still menstruating pretty normally, so while it had occurred to me that stress could be affecting results, I had not realised that I might not have peaked. Is it possible not to peak but still to have normal menstruation? I haven’t had anything like the 60 day cycle (!) you mention.

Your body starts preparing the uterine lining when the estrogen surges shortly after you shed the last one (your last period). Generally after you ovulate, the progesterone will cause it to thicken more than the estrogen has, but it is still there even if you don’t ovulate. Some people notice periods after anovulatory cycles are lighter, others don’t notice a difference. Some people have longer cycles (mine were around 40-45 days vs my normal 33 days) but other people have their periods right on time. Not ovulating throws off your hormones, and this impacts different people differently.

 

[kptrs]

Sorry, embarrassing ignorance here, but what’s an OPK?

Ovulation Predictor Kit. Clearblue makes them, but you can use generic brand ones that are less expensive. They are usually harder to interpret than Clearblue, though.