NFP disaster. Any advice?

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I’m not sure if this was sarcastic or not (when, oh when will the Interwebz produce a sarcasm font?), but I’m assuming not. 🙂 In my experience, people do tend to like Marquette as a method. The lack of ambiguity is refreshing to those of us who don’t do subjectivity very well. Doesn’t mean they particularly enjoy the abstinence associated with it, of course, but who does? 😛
I was totally serious.

Never done it myself, although we did think hard about it after our last baby.
 
Exactly. 🙂

Aside from miscarriage, a luteal phase of, say, only a day or two (which isn’t unheard-of in the first cycle or two PP) can prevent a pregnancy from even happening, as it can take that long for fertilization to even occur.

But yeah, hoping for a miscarriage isn’t really a healthy way to deal with PP NFP from either a physical or mental standpoint: it’s not exactly reliable, for one thing, and it’s not at all a good place to be, mentally or spiritually speaking.
Yes I agree.

I remember reading on another forum the posts of a woman who had this problem of a short luteal phase and was observing lost pregnancy after lost pregnancy by testing early. She had been wanting to conceive, but later changed her mind because she didn’t want to go through treatments to be able to maintain a pregnancy. She made a gallows humor joke about “at least I don’t have to worry about practicing NFP anymore, because I can’t stay pregnant!” I think it was an attempt at humor to hide her sorrow, but oh the drama that was raised. People were angry with her for being willing to let her babies die month after month, rather than use NFP to avoid pregnancy or seek treatments to sustain a pregnancy. In her case, a little information was a dangerous thing. She left the forum after that, as did I. I was so sad for her, especially since I have a friend IRL who had to go through those treatments and she won’t do it ever again. It was scary rough on her body. I don’t blame anyone who would want to choose to put away the charts and just leave it all up to God after that.

ETA: sorry I won’t derail the thread any further. I have nothing helpful to offer the OP, so I will fade back into lurkdom for this thread. :o
 
I’m not sure if this was sarcastic or not (when, oh when will the Interwebz produce a sarcasm font?), but I’m assuming not. 🙂 In my experience, people do tend to like Marquette as a method. The lack of ambiguity is refreshing to those of us who don’t do subjectivity very well. Doesn’t mean they particularly enjoy the abstinence associated with it, of course, but who does? 😛
This is why I’m so attracted to Marquette and hope it will work.

For me…I need someone or something to tel me “No!”

Otherwise the subjectivity goes to my head and I start seeing signs that aren’t there or missing signs that are.
 
We absolutely cannot have a baby just now: I have had to move countries to be with my new DH, and settling in here is at times an enormous strain. We’re also working on my job situation. So having a child immediately is not an option.
This sentence jumps out to me. For thousands of years, mothers stayed at home and took care of the house and the children. It is only in recent history where women are now expected to take a job in secular society, (which is rife with pitfalls of its own, spiritual and otherwise).

If you were to live from your husband’s income alone, you might not have all of the conveniences of modernity, but there would be more stability in the home.

I understand that financially speaking this is not always possible to have the mother at home - I understand that concept. However, it is definitely the ideal you and your husband should strive to attain in the near future. Our premarital counselor, a traditional Catholic priest, made the same recommendation: The ideal is for the mother to stay at home.

The Lord commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, and to place our trust in Him. One of the things I learned as a father was that when my wife and I had children, that opportunities, resources, and new possibilities opened to our family by the grace of the Creator. Family, friends, work associates, and members of the Church all helped us and continue to help us.
But at the moment, as newlyweds, we are only able to be intimate for 5 days a month after my period starts
You might consider reading about the dangers of having intercourse during one’s menstrual period. There are physical dangers as well as spiritual dangers.

In fact, in the Mosaic Law, a woman was separated from her husband during menstruation for 7 full days. (You can find the specifics in the Bible - Leviticus 15:19 and 24; 18:19, and 20:18.) To this day, many devout Jews follow these same laws, as a form of family purity.

The Jewish term refers to the family purity laws as the “laws of niddah”. Many devout Jewish women go through formal classes on these concepts of family purity prior to marriage. The gist of the family purity laws - in a nutshell (and I am simplifying) - is no touching of any kinds for a 7-12 day period (the time frame being dependent on following biblical direction or rabbinic).

Separating from one’s wife physically for seven full days allows a couple to have some perfectly natural “alone” time, and builds intimacy (“absence makes the heart grow fonder”). Our family priest advocated during our premarital counseling that even though you will be married, each partner to the marriage still needs alone time. Jewish men and women, therefore, sleep in separate beds at the onset of the menstrual cycle, and do not touch each other during this time frame. Prior to re-engaging with her husband, the wife goes to the mikveh, a small pool in a bath house, and immerses herself in water (think baptism, full body immersion).

Over time, Jewish women praise the laws of family purity, though it takes time to adjust and to learn.
 
We are not Jewish, but Catholic and are no longer bound to Jewish ritual purification laws.

As an aside, those laws created the perfect scenario for husband and wife to come together again at the perfect time to conceive a new baby.
 
We are not Jewish, but Catholic and are no longer bound to Jewish ritual purification laws.
There is nowhere in Roman Catholic canon law that prohibits the separation of male and female during a woman’s menstrual period.

I never once said anyone was “bound” to any law. Every Catholic is free to do as they deem fit.

There are enormous spiritual benefits - as well as physical health reasons - to avoid having intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period, regardless of whether you are Catholic, Jewish, or any other faith for that matter. Good grief.
 
This sentence jumps out to me. For thousands of years, mothers stayed at home and took care of the house and the children. It is only in recent history where women are now expected to take a job in secular society, (which is rife with pitfalls of its own, spiritual and otherwise).

If you were to live from your husband’s income alone, you might not have all of the conveniences of modernity, but there would be more stability in the home.

I understand that financially speaking this is not always possible to have the mother at home - I understand that concept. However, it is definitely the ideal you and your husband should strive to attain in the near future. Our premarital counselor, a traditional Catholic priest, made the same recommendation: The ideal is for the mother to stay at home.

The Lord commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, and to place our trust in Him. One of the things I learned as a father was that when my wife and I had children, that opportunities, resources, and new possibilities opened to our family by the grace of the Creator. Family, friends, work associates, and members of the Church all helped us and continue to help us.

You might consider reading about the dangers of having intercourse during one’s menstrual period. There are physical dangers as well as spiritual dangers.

In fact, in the Mosaic Law, a woman was separated from her husband during menstruation for 7 full days. (You can find the specifics in the Bible - Leviticus 15:19 and 24; 18:19, and 20:18.) To this day, many devout Jews follow these same laws, as a form of family purity.

The Jewish term refers to the family purity laws as the “laws of niddah”. Many devout Jewish women go through formal classes on these concepts of family purity prior to marriage. The gist of the family purity laws - in a nutshell (and I am simplifying) - is no touching of any kinds for a 7-12 day period (the time frame being dependent on following biblical direction or rabbinic).

Separating from one’s wife physically for seven full days allows a couple to have some perfectly natural “alone” time, and builds intimacy (“absence makes the heart grow fonder”). Our family priest advocated during our premarital counseling that even though you will be married, each partner to the marriage still needs alone time. Jewish men and women, therefore, sleep in separate beds at the onset of the menstrual cycle, and do not touch each other during this time frame. Prior to re-engaging with her husband, the wife goes to the mikveh, a small pool in a bath house, and immerses herself in water (think baptism, full body immersion).

Over time, Jewish women praise the laws of family purity, though it takes time to adjust and to learn.
The OP mentions elsewhere in the thread that she is unable to see the doctor except for emergencies until her immigration situation is straightened out.

That alone is a fairly serious situation for both her and a future baby.
 
This sentence jumps out to me. For thousands of years, mothers stayed at home and took care of the house and the children. It is only in recent history where women are now expected to take a job in secular society, (which is rife with pitfalls of its own, spiritual and otherwise).

If you were to live from your husband’s income alone, you might not have all of the conveniences of modernity, but there would be more stability in the home.

I understand that financially speaking this is not always possible to have the mother at home - I understand that concept. However, it is definitely the ideal you and your husband should strive to attain in the near future. Our premarital counselor, a traditional Catholic priest, made the same recommendation: The ideal is for the mother to stay at home.

The Lord commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, and to place our trust in Him. One of the things I learned as a father was that when my wife and I had children, that opportunities, resources, and new possibilities opened to our family by the grace of the Creator. Family, friends, work associates, and members of the Church all helped us and continue to help us.

You might consider reading about the dangers of having intercourse during one’s menstrual period. There are physical dangers as well as spiritual dangers.

In fact, in the Mosaic Law, a woman was separated from her husband during menstruation for 7 full days. (You can find the specifics in the Bible - Leviticus 15:19 and 24; 18:19, and 20:18.) To this day, many devout Jews follow these same laws, as a form of family purity.

The Jewish term refers to the family purity laws as the “laws of niddah”. Many devout Jewish women go through formal classes on these concepts of family purity prior to marriage. The gist of the family purity laws - in a nutshell (and I am simplifying) - is no touching of any kinds for a 7-12 day period (the time frame being dependent on following biblical direction or rabbinic).

Separating from one’s wife physically for seven full days allows a couple to have some perfectly natural “alone” time, and builds intimacy (“absence makes the heart grow fonder”). Our family priest advocated during our premarital counseling that even though you will be married, each partner to the marriage still needs alone time. Jewish men and women, therefore, sleep in separate beds at the onset of the menstrual cycle, and do not touch each other during this time frame. Prior to re-engaging with her husband, the wife goes to the mikveh, a small pool in a bath house, and immerses herself in water (think baptism, full body immersion).

Over time, Jewish women praise the laws of family purity, though it takes time to adjust and to learn.
DH’s job would potentially allow me to be a stay-at-home mother, but I’m not sure that that is what I would want (at least, not for the whole rest of my life) and I would worry that it would leave me extremely vulnerable if something happened to him. The country we live in isn’t set up for single-income families, and I would lose a lot of security: a pension, for example, and the ability to get a job quickly should something happen to him. I would be prepared - potentially - for certain sacrifices to be a SAHM, but not for constant fears about the future. We are surviving almost entirely on his income while I get my situation sorted, and it’s something that does prey on my mind. It is something we will continue to discuss, but right now we don’t even have children so it isn’t immediately relevant. I also enjoy the work I do, and believe it is important in its way. It means a great deal more to me than just a way to earn money.

In terms of avoiding intimacy during menstruation: I don’t particularly enjoy sex during that period (no pun intended) but I don’t know if you realised when you wrote this that in our current situation, avoiding sex during menstruation would mean a totally sexless marriage. I don’t see that that would be likely to improve matters… Also, what do you mean by “physical as well as spiritual dangers”? I have never heard this. What dangers?
 
There is nowhere in Roman Catholic canon law that prohibits the separation of male and female during a woman’s menstrual period.

I never once said anyone was “bound” to any law. Every Catholic is free to do as they deem fit.

There are enormous spiritual benefits - as well as physical health reasons - to avoid having intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period, regardless of whether you are Catholic, Jewish, or any other faith for that matter. Good grief.
I’m not sure how this is helping anything. You are way off topic. This is about what methods of Natural Family Planning would work best for the OP…not about whether or not it is morally acceptable to have marital relations during her period. (Which btw there is nothing wrong with it. 😉 )
 
DH’s job would potentially allow me to be a stay-at-home mother, but I’m not sure that that is what I would want (at least, not for the whole rest of my life) and I would worry that it would leave me extremely vulnerable if something happened to him. The country we live in isn’t set up for single-income families, and I would lose a lot of security: a pension, for example, and the ability to get a job quickly should something happen to him. I would be prepared - potentially - for certain sacrifices to be a SAHM, but not for constant fears about the future. We are surviving almost entirely on his income while I get my situation sorted, and it’s something that does prey on my mind. It is something we will continue to discuss, but right now we don’t even have children so it isn’t immediately relevant. I also enjoy the work I do, and believe it is important in its way. It means a great deal more to me than just a way to earn money.

In terms of avoiding intimacy during menstruation: I don’t particularly enjoy sex during that period (no pun intended) but I don’t know if you realised when you wrote this that in our current situation, avoiding sex during menstruation would mean a totally sexless marriage. I don’t see that that would be likely to improve matters… Also, what do you mean by “physical as well as spiritual dangers”? I have never heard this. What dangers?
Do not worry dear, he’s just “being a little more Catholic than the Pope! ;)” You are fine and are doing nothing wrong that I see. 🙂
 
The OP mentions elsewhere in the thread that she is unable to see the doctor except for emergencies until her immigration situation is straightened out.

That alone is a fairly serious situation for both her and a future baby.
To explain: I know that they would take good care of me if I became ill or pregnant, but I can’t register with a GP without being resident here and I don’t know how a pregnancy would work if I were still officially a visitor here - whether I would have to go back to my home country while it was being sorted out, or else face high medical bills. I just don’t know, and I’m not particularly anxious to find out! We are trying to get it sorted, but we have already had one failed attempt due to practicalities/misunderstandings, and it’s just a process that takes a bit of time.
 
There is nowhere in Roman Catholic canon law that prohibits the separation of male and female during a woman’s menstrual period.

I never once said anyone was “bound” to any law. Every Catholic is free to do as they deem fit.

There are enormous spiritual benefits - as well as physical health reasons - to avoid having intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period, regardless of whether you are Catholic, Jewish, or any other faith for that matter. Good grief.
The grief here is that you said previously that there are dangers associated with marital relations during a woman’s menstrual period and are advocating separation of husband and wife during that time, and making it sound like it is the pious and healthy thing to do.
 
Right. Don’t worry.
I was jumpy enough to google… According to the medical services website, the only risk is a heightened risk of passing on HIV/STDs, possibly the only sexual issue I’m NOT worried about right now! 😛
 
There is nowhere in Roman Catholic canon law that prohibits the separation of male and female during a woman’s menstrual period.

I never once said anyone was “bound” to any law. Every Catholic is free to do as they deem fit.

There are enormous spiritual benefits - as well as physical health reasons - to avoid having intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period, regardless of whether you are Catholic, Jewish, or any other faith for that matter. Good grief.
StGerardMajella, what are the enormous spiritual and health benefits in avoiding during that time? I’m not doubting you, I’ve just never seen it addressed by the Church before.
 
WAY WAY too expensive.

Who in the world has $600 lying around for a one time purchase?

Most people don’t and it would take months to save up for something like that.

She’s already dropped a huge sum of money for a monitor.

She should now trash it and buy something even more expensive?

Unbelievable the advice given on these threads.

First she should just have baby because clearly she isn’t open to life enough according to holler then thou posters and now she needs to spend even more money on a ridiculously expensive product.

No wonder why NFP is so ridiculous.
In all honesty, I think your response here is pretty personal and harsh in response to a suggestion that someone made. Why would you respond to someone so angrily over that? Not everyone’s suggestion will work for everyone else, but that doesn’t mean they should be trashed over it.
 
Also, what do you mean by “physical as well as spiritual dangers”? I have never heard this. What dangers?
There are heightened risks for bacterial infections. Consult a medical professional.

In terms of spiritual dangers, read your Bible. Specifically, the sections in Leviticus mentioned earlier. Their are valid spiritual reasons to avoid having intercourse during menstruation, regardless of whether you have ever heard of them or not. Most Catholics are unfamiliar, but they are laid out quite clearly in all of our Catholic Bibles.

There were valid and legitimate health and spiritual reasons as to why the Creator stated the laws He stated. Whether one chooses to follow them or not, regardless of their religious affiliations, is of their own choice (and consequences).

While the Catholic Church does not proscribe for laity strict adherence to Mosaic Law - understood - there are still valid reasons in terms of health and spirituality for these laws. In fact, if you study our monastic orders carefully, many of them follow a more strict version of sections of Mosaic Law. Celibacy, and vegetarianism are two of the simplest and most obvious examples.

Take the laws of kashrut (kosher). Catholics are not required to follow the kosher laws for food preparation. Nevertheless, those that do adhere derive tremendous spiritual and physical benefits from doing so. Similarly, our monastic orders that follow a vegetarian diet derive tremendous spiritual and physical benefits from doing so.
making it sound like it is the pious and healthy thing to do.
See above.
I’m not sure how this is helping anything. You are way off topic. .not about whether or not it is morally acceptable to have marital relations during her period. (Which btw there is nothing wrong with it.
Response was direct from the original post. No one is questioning morality. The closer we follow the Father’s laws, the more their adherence is to our own personal benefit. See above.
StGerardMajella, what are the enormous spiritual and health benefits in avoiding during that time? I’m not doubting you, I’ve just never seen it addressed by the Church before.
See above. In short, heightened intimacy between partners. The time away from each other greatly increases the spiritual dynamic between husband and wife when they get back together.
 
There are heightened risks for bacterial infections. Consult a medical professional.

In terms of spiritual dangers, read your Bible. Specifically, the sections in Leviticus mentioned earlier. Their are valid spiritual reasons to avoid having intercourse during menstruation, regardless of whether you have ever heard of them or not. Most Catholics are unfamiliar, but they are laid out quite clearly in all of our Catholic Bibles.

There were valid and legitimate health and spiritual reasons as to why the Creator stated the laws He stated. Whether one chooses to follow them or not, regardless of their religious affiliations, is of their own choice (and consequences).

While the Catholic Church does not proscribe for laity strict adherence to Mosaic Law - understood - there are still valid reasons in terms of health and spirituality for these laws. In fact, if you study our monastic orders carefully, many of them follow a more strict version of sections of Mosaic Law. Celibacy, and vegetarianism are two of the simplest and most obvious examples.

Take the laws of kashrut (kosher). Catholics are not required to follow the kosher laws for food preparation. Nevertheless, those that do adhere derive tremendous spiritual and physical benefits from doing so. Similarly, our monastic orders that follow a vegetarian diet derive tremendous spiritual and physical benefits from doing so.

See above.

Response was direct from the original post. No one is questioning morality. The closer we follow the Father’s laws, the more their adherence is to our own personal benefit. See above.

See above. In short, heightened intimacy between partners. The time away from each other greatly increases the spiritual dynamic between husband and wife.
Can we please stick to helping the OP rather than going off on irrelevant topics that not only have nothing to do with her situation but also have nothing to do with Catholic teaching? The Church says it is okay to have sex during the menstrual period, and so far, these are the only days she can. Don’t complicate things further for her.
 
In all honesty, I think your response here is pretty personal and harsh in response to a suggestion that someone made. Why would you respond to someone so angrily over that? Not everyone’s suggestion will work for everyone else, but that doesn’t mean they should be trashed over it.
Because the lack of common sense in this thread is astonishing and continues to be with some of the more recent posts.
 
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