NFP disaster. Any advice?

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Can we please stick to helping the OP rather than going off on irrelevant topics that not only have nothing to do with her situation but also have nothing to do with Catholic teaching? The Church says it is okay to have sex during the menstrual period, and so far, these are the only days she can. Don’t complicate things further for her.
It’s not a question of physical dimensions - as to what day to chart, which days to abstain, which NFP process is best, etc.

The root answer to the original poster’s questions is spiritual in nature. Elevate the dialogue.
The Church says it is okay to have sex during the menstrual period
Where exactly in canon law does the Church state that it is acceptable to have sex during the menstrual period? This is not traditional Catholic teaching.
 
StGerardMajella, believe me, I would be delighted to be able to reserve our “time apart” for the menstrual period. It doesn’t feel at all natural or delightful to me to have our time together then. 😦 But there is currently no other option available to us. I would feel terrible explaining to my new husband, who loves me very much and would never ask me to be intimate with him at a time when I clearly didn’t want to, that I would be declining intimacy during even the meagre few days that we have together. I think it would be an awful thing to do. I don’t want to decrease the amount and quality of time we have together, but to increase it.
 
I would be delighted to be able to reserve our “time apart” for the menstrual period.
It is still possible to get pregnant even if you have sex during a menstrual period. Decreased likelihood, but not foolproof.
 
It’s not a question of physical dimensions - as to what day to chart, which days to abstain, which NFP process is best, etc.

The root answer to the original poster’s questions is spiritual in nature. Elevate the dialogue.
Except you explicitly advised abstinence for the first 7-10 days of the cycle, because you claim there are medical and spiritual dangers to sexual relations during menstruation. Furthermore, you advised sleeping separately for husbands and wives.

And now you are advocating to elevate the dialogue as if you made no such suggestions.

And your recent posts claim that adherence to strict Mosaic law is a good practice for Catholics, as well as you saying celibacy and vegetarianism being a part of such adherence to “God’s laws”, which is scripturally inaccurate and unfounded.
 
Except you explicitly advised abstinence for the first 7-10 days of the cycle, because you claim there are medical and spiritual dangers to sexual relations during menstruation. Furthermore, you advised sleeping separately for husbands and wives.
Re-read my post. I stated that the Creator made this recommendation - 7 days of separation during a menstrual cycle. He outlines His guidelines quite clearly. And then I stated that He made these guidelines for our benefit. Read your Bible.
And your recent posts claim that adherence to strict Mosaic law is a good practice for Catholics, as well as you saying celibacy and vegetarianism being a part of such adherence to “God’s laws”, which is scripturally inaccurate and unfounded.
I never advocated anyone to follow Mosaic Law. I did, however, make the suggestion that following certain strictures within the Bible are entirely beneficial. Nothing I have said thus far is inaccurate insofar as Holy Writ is concerned.

As Catholics, we turn to Holy Writ for advice and guidance as to how to live our lives. This is not against Catholic teaching.

There are different levels of holiness. Not everyone can aspire.
 
Re-read my post. I stated that the Creator made this recommendation - 7 days of separation during a menstrual cycle. He outlines His guidelines quite clearly. Read your Bible.

I never advocated anyone to follow Mosaic Law. I did, however, make the suggestion that following certain strictures within the Bible are entirely beneficial. Nothing I have said thus far is inaccurate insofar as Holy Writ is concerned.

As Catholics, we turn to Holy Writ for advice and guidance as to how to live our lives. This is not against Catholic teaching.

There are different levels of holiness. Not everyone can aspire.
Oh, okay. So you are being holier-than-thou. Gotcha.
 
In terms of it being a spiritual rather than a physical thing, all I can say is that the more I reflect on the thoughts started by this thread, the more I suspect that it is a question of very real physical symptoms caused by mental and spiritual difficulties connected with all the changes going on in my life just now, and that I would certainly be very grateful for our marriage be remembered in the prayers of any posters who have the time and inclination to do that.
 
In terms of it being a spiritual rather than a physical thing, all I can say is that the more I reflect on the thoughts started by this thread, the more I suspect that it is a question of very real physical symptoms caused by mental and spiritual difficulties connected with all the changes going on in my life just now, and that I would certainly be very grateful for our marriage be remembered in the prayers of any posters who have the time and inclination to do that.
It certainly makes sense that the stress you are undergoing is causing physical problems. My husband and I just moved thousands of miles with our family (5kids) and didn’t know a single soul. We are both experiencing health problems, both physical and mental. And that is without worries about health insurance and immigration laws.

I will certainly pray for you, and I hope you are able to settle in and have a more peaceful experience in your new life very soon.
 
It certainly makes sense that the stress you are undergoing is causing physical problems. My husband and I just moved thousands of miles with our family (5kids) and didn’t know a single soul. We are both experiencing health problems, both physical and mental. And that is without worries about health insurance and immigration laws.

I will certainly pray for you, and I hope you are able to settle in and have a more peaceful experience in your new life very soon.
God bless you, jmjZelie. A move that big with 5 children is a huge deal: no wonder it has been so hard on you both. Thank you for your prayers: I will pray for you and your family, too.
 
Re-read my post. I stated that the Creator made this recommendation - 7 days of separation during a menstrual cycle. He outlines His guidelines quite clearly. And then I stated that He made these guidelines for our benefit. Read your Bible.

I never advocated anyone to follow Mosaic Law. I did, however, make the suggestion that following certain strictures within the Bible are entirely beneficial. Nothing I have said thus far is inaccurate insofar as Holy Writ is concerned.

As Catholics, we turn to Holy Writ for advice and guidance as to how to live our lives. This is not against Catholic teaching.

There are different levels of holiness. Not everyone can aspire.
It is actually a mortal sin to continue to practice the ceremonial precepts of the Old Law as a religious act since the Christs Passion.

Thomas Aquinas answered to that question in the Summa Theologica…

newadvent.org/summa/2103.htm#article4

The ceremonies that prefigured the coming of Christ like circumcision, blood sacrifice and many prohibitions, no longer have spiritual merit and would in fact be a denial of Christ. Of course they aren’t forbidden in and of themselves and it may be necessary to circumcise etc. for hygiene or convenience reasons.

You’re mistaking these ceremonial precepts of the Old Law for the moral precepts which still do apply today.
 
Because the lack of common sense in this thread is astonishing and continues to be with some of the more recent posts.
You need to chill, Kefla. I understand you have been going through a rough time, but that’s no excuse to be so plain rude.

I’m not just talking about this particular post either. You owe some people an apology. And, no, I’m not talking about me.
 
It is actually a mortal sin to continue to practice the ceremonial precepts of the Old Law as a religious act since the Christs Passion.
Staying celibate during a woman’s menstrual period is not “ceremonial law”. Our Catholic priests, nuns, and monks all practice celibacy to great spiritual effect.

We have numerous examples in both the New and Old Testament, as well as in Church tradition, where celibacy and abstinence are advocated and recommended for spiritual purposes.
You’re mistaking these ceremonial precepts of the Old Law for the moral precepts which still do apply today.
See above. I made no reference to “ceremonial precepts”. Celibacy is not a “ceremonial precept”, and does not interfere with Christ’s commandments in any way, shape, or form.
 
Staying celibate during a woman’s menstrual period is not “ceremonial law”. Our Catholic priests, nuns, and monks all practice celibacy to great spiritual effect.

We have numerous examples in both the New and Old Testament, as well as in Church tradition, where celibacy and abstinence are advocated and recommended for spiritual purposes.

See above. I made no reference to “ceremonial precepts”. Celibacy is not a “ceremonial precept”, and does not interference with Christ’s commandments in any way, shape, or form.
You seem to be doing an awful lot of goal post shifting here. Are you talking about celibacy (great spiritual practice), periodic abstinence (great spiritual practice) or abstaining during the menstrual cycle (personal preference)?
 
You seem to be doing an awful lot of goal post shifting here. Are you talking about celibacy (great spiritual practice), periodic abstinence (great spiritual practice) or abstaining during the menstrual cycle (personal preference)?
Right.
 
You seem to be doing an awful lot of goal post shifting here. Are you talking about celibacy (great spiritual practice), periodic abstinence (great spiritual practice) or abstaining during the menstrual cycle (personal preference)?
The Catholic priest who counseled my wife and I before our marriage made it perfectly clear that intercourse during a menstrual cycle is not recommended by the Church. As I have stated previously, there are legitimate spiritual and health reasons for abstinence during this time period, as well as scriptural evidence for doing so.

Perhaps you would suggest the priest was in error in making this recommendation. However, I can find no place in Roman Catholic canon law that suggests that it is appropriate or recommended for married couples to have intercourse during the menstrual cycle. In fact, under certain circumstances, the Church does the exact opposite and recognizes the value in abstinence (and celibacy), even for the laity.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the Creator (or the priest who gave us this advice), the original poster needs our prayers, as she acknowledges the spiritual dimension of her current challenges with Natural Family Planning.

We should pray for her.
 
The Catholic priest who counseled my wife and I before our marriage made it perfectly clear that intercourse during a menstrual cycle is not recommended by the Church. As I have stated previously, there are legitimate spiritual and health reasons for abstinence during this time period, as well as scriptural evidence for doing so.

Perhaps you would suggest the priest was in error in making this recommendation. However, I can find no place in Roman Catholic canon law that suggests that it is appropriate or recommended for married couples to have intercourse during the menstrual cycle. In fact, under certain circumstances, the Church does the exact opposite and recognizes the value in abstinence (and celibacy), even for the laity.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the Creator (or the priest who gave us this advice), the original poster needs our prayers, as she acknowledges the spiritual dimension of her current challenges with Natural Family Planning.

We should pray for her.
I really think you have misheard the Priest who counselled you on that matter because I don’t believe a Priest would specifically dissuade a couple from sex during that time as ‘not recommended by the Church’. Or perhaps he was reflecting that some experts say that you can ovulate during a period and it is therefore not guaranteed an infertile time?

Back in the middle ages, it was thought that a child conceived during the menstrual cycle would be deformed hence sex was discouraged as medically unwise… but over the last 500 years we know that that isn’t the case.

There are spiritual benefits in the practice of unmarried celibacy and periodic continence in marriage… but there is nothing especially virtuous about abstaining from sex at the time of the menstrual cycle. It’s just a personal preference.
 
There are spiritual benefits in the practice of unmarried celibacy and periodic continence in marriage… but there is nothing especially virtuous about abstaining from sex at the time of the menstrual cycle. It’s just a personal preference.
Well, it’s personal preference to do a lot of things. That doesn’t mean that they are healthy for us in a physical sense, and it doesn’t mean that they are good for us spiritually either.

You have to ask yourself, “Why would the Creator have admonished the Israelites to refrain from marital relations during the menstrual cycle?” You either believe that the Creator had the best interests of the Israelites at heart, or you don’t. Or maybe you chalk it up to a “strange legalism” in the Old Testament. Or you don’t believe that the Creator’s commandments were designed to bring holiness.

Unfortunately, I don’t buy that argument. I believe the Creator had a purpose for each and every commandment, whether we understand it or not - and whether it meets our “personal preference” threshold or not. (That’s not legalism, either. It is, however, taking the Creator at his written word, as difficult as that can be at times.)
 
Well, it’s personal preference to do a lot of things. That doesn’t mean that they are healthy for us in a physical sense, and it doesn’t mean that they are good for us spiritually either.

You have to ask yourself, “Why would the Creator have admonished the Israelites to refrain from marital relations during the menstrual cycle?” You either believe that the Creator had the best interests of the Israelites at heart, or you don’t. Or maybe you chalk it up to a “strange legalism” in the Old Testament. Or you don’t believe that the Creator’s commandments were designed to bring holiness.

Unfortunately, I don’t buy that argument. I believe the Creator had a purpose for each and every commandment, whether we understand it or not - and whether it meets our “personal preference” threshold or not. (That’s not legalism, either. It is, however, taking the Creator at his written word, as difficult as that can be at times.)
Jewish Law forbade many practices and behoved many others in their relationship with God.

"11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” - Genesis 17

The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses. - Deuteronomy 14:8

“A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.” - Deuteronomy 22:5

There were an endless list of practices and prohibitions to mark Jewish obedience to God. All of these ceremonial and judicial precepts were replaced by the New Laws and the teachings of Christ who came to fulfill the Old Law… and His Church.

If you are simply saying that menstrual sex has some increased health risks and can be distasteful to the sensibilities… I’m quite receptive of that view… but it is not the basis of any Catholic prohibition
 
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