NFP for an unmarried couple?

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pumpkinbeast

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Well, this is a moral knot… my younger sister just gave birth to her baby (boy, 7lbs 12.5 ounces). She is 18, was 17 when she got pregnant, is living with her boyfriend on my parent’s money. She was raised Catholic like me, so she knows right from wrong, or I thought she did… anyway, regardless, is there any moral way to help her not get pregnant again a year from now, besides the obvious keep-your-pants-on that an unmarried couple should be following anyway? Obviously barrier and chemical contraceptives are out, but what about NFP? I thought it might be okay, but then realized that the over-arching principle of NFP is that it’s open to life, which an unmarried couple technically isn’t supposed to be. x.o My brain hurts. >.< What about ecological breastfeeding? That would delay things for awhile, anyway, maybe long enough for them to come to their senses and rectify things, but who knows… This might turn out to be completely hypothetical anyway, because I am assuming that either my sister or my parents will buckle to the pressure and get on The Pill. I’m just really confused. Why can’t people just do what God tells us to do? x.x 🤷 Any insight is appreciated…

ETA: They may or may not get married, I have no IDEA where that is on the radar. :confused:
 
Blessed Sacrament and go to Mass.

That’s all I’d tell her. She has to understand that its wrong to engage in any sexual activity before marriage and to do it out of love for God. The mentality that needs to be standard in someone’s head is to want to love God and obey His word, not “lets see how much I can get away with.”

If she’s having trouble with faith , see if you can help her tackle head-on certain issues she may have. If not, usually people have to hit rockbottom to want to get help, sad but true. Few people can just convert on God’s grace alone; you need to want it to and ask for it.
 
pumpkinbeast said:
Well, this is a moral knot… my younger sister just gave birth to her baby (boy, 7lbs 12.5 ounces). She is 18, was 17 when she got pregnant, is living with her boyfriend on my parent’s money. She was raised Catholic like me, so she knows right from wrong, or I thought she did… anyway, regardless, is there any moral way to help her not get pregnant again a year from now, besides the obvious keep-your-pants-on that an unmarried couple should be following anyway? Obviously barrier and chemical contraceptives are out, but what about NFP? I thought it might be okay, but then realized that the over-arching principle of NFP is that it’s open to life, which an unmarried couple technically isn’t supposed to be. x.o My brain hurts. >.< What about ecological breastfeeding? That would delay things for awhile, anyway, maybe long enough for them to come to their senses and rectify things, but who knows… This might turn out to be completely hypothetical anyway, because I am assuming that either my sister or my parents will buckle to the pressure and get on The Pill. I’m just really confused. Why can’t people just do what God tells us to do? x.x 🤷 Any insight is appreciated…

ETA: They may or may not get married, I have no IDEA where that is on the radar. :confused:
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One thing is for certain. Church rules on birth control will not be on the radar screen.
Forget NFP. Ninety percent of married catholics in their 20’s, 30’s & 40’s aren’t in obedience. There is simply no way a teenage couple has the kind of self control.

The health ramifications of the “pill” should be enough to discourage it’s use. Their best option is to not live together and stop having sex outside of marriage. If they refuse, (which they probably will) then they really need to be “adult” enough to act responsibly and take other measures to avoid pregnancy.

You can pray for them too… and let them know that you are doing so. That might be the very thing that gets them to wise up.

:cool:
 
The only moral answer in a Catholic perspective is for them to abstain. If they practice NFP, it would be in a context of an unmarried couple sleeping together, obviously not correct.

But, as however frustrating is for you, there really isn’t much you can do. I don’t know the dynamics of your relationship with your sister, you can offer advice and tell her the truth, but she is the one who has to decide.

You can pray, offer her a good example, give her good advice

Prayers.
 
The only thing that will keep your sister chaste and not pregnant is a radical lifestyle change on her part. She’s not going to abstain from sex if she’s bought into the popular culture mentality that “I should be able to have sex whenever I want with no consequences” (thank God she chose life instead of abortion for her baby!). Keep impressing upon her that NO birth control is 100% effective, and the only way for her to keep from getting pregnant again is to completely abstain.

Maybe get her a copy of “The Thrill of the Chaste” by Dawn Eden, or one of Jason Evert’s books?
 
Statistically her relationship has only a small chance of surviving until death does each apart. More likely than not she will be a single mother raising kid along and probably will have a tough time getting a college education, if she even can. I think it’s best she doesn’t have anymore sex whatsoever. Aside from the morality of having sex before marriage, even experienced NFP couple have slip ups every now and then so I doubt a couple that young would use the method very correctly. Also I can tell the guy must not have much brains, because if I had a girl who was 17 I would be looking out for her future, rather than what feels good at the moment. Just tell her now is not the best time to have sex. She needs to put her child and future first before sex.
 
pumpkinbeast said:
Well, this is a moral knot… my younger sister just gave birth to her baby (boy, 7lbs 12.5 ounces). She is 18, was 17 when she got pregnant, is living with her boyfriend on my parent’s money. She was raised Catholic like me, so she knows right from wrong, or I thought she did… anyway, regardless, is there any moral way to help her not get pregnant again a year from now, besides the obvious keep-your-pants-on that an unmarried couple should be following anyway? Obviously barrier and chemical contraceptives are out, but what about NFP? I thought it might be okay, but then realized that the over-arching principle of NFP is that it’s open to life, which an unmarried couple technically isn’t supposed to be. x.o My brain hurts. >.< What about ecological breastfeeding? That would delay things for awhile, anyway, maybe long enough for them to come to their senses and rectify things, but who knows… This might turn out to be completely hypothetical anyway, because I am assuming that either my sister or my parents will buckle to the pressure and get on The Pill. I’m just really confused. Why can’t people just do what God tells us to do? x.x 🤷 Any insight is appreciated…

ETA: They may or may not get married, I have no IDEA where that is on the radar. :confused:
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I was also in a sexual relationship before marriage. NFP is quite accurate at preventing conception although it does rely on a couples’ ability to abstain. According to one website it is as accurate as the contraceptive pill and 98% effective against pregnancy. I would never take the contraceptive pill in any circumstance and my mum always told me to use a condom although I would only choose non-spermicidal now. Spermicide could have a small abortifacient effect but a lot of condom manufacturers are removing it anyway as it damages the lining of the vagina and is proven to increase the risk of STI transmission as viruses pass on more easily through wounds. So NFP or condom or go to confession and abstain. Choose non-spermicidal and check on the back of a condom packet.

Here are some NFP websites.
www.fertilityuk.org
www.nfpandmore.org - contains a free “how to” manual but I wouldn’t recommend internal examination of the cervix with fingers or vaginal and rectal thermometer readings
There are also fertility monitors available in the shops but quite expensive. They are marketed by Clearblue. Here in the UK there’s one called Persona but it’s nearly £70 then £12 a month. NFP classes should be free but they might not enrol you unless you go to a non-Church related organisation.
There’s also books available on Amazon if you search under natural family planning:
amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=natural+family+planning
 
Thanks everyone for your advice… I suspected as much, but nice to have it confirmed, re: an unmarried couple using NFP. I’ll do my best to guide her and my parents towards total abstinence, but, as a PP pointed out, there is very little I can really do.

I’ve got a new thread now, if you’d be so kind as to read it…
 
I don’t know your sisters relationship but what St. Paul would say in such a relationship is to get married sooner rather than later. If she has met the right man for her then I don’t believe age matters as long as it’s over the limit for marriage. You could meet the right man at 16, 20,30, 40, 50, 60. If she’s not happy in the relationship then I wouldn’t pressure her to get married but she might need to find somebody else.

1 Corinthians 8:
Now to the unmarried and widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am, But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with a passion.

For NFPers this is another good website with instructions on the Standard Days Method which is a calendar based method and does not require tuition. Some couples also use FAM which means using a non-spermicidal barrier method eg. condom during fertile periods but the pregnancy rate goes up.

natural-family-planning.info/standard-days-method.htm
 
Anyone can make a mistake, we’re all sinners. But your sister seems to be making mistakes that are compounded, and well thought out. I get it, we’re all weak, and we all do things that make us cringe when we go to confession. Let’s light a candle for this family.

Perhaps she isn’t as strong a believer as you thought, if she’s not, then all you can do is pray for her. If she tells you to go away and stop pestering her with faith stuff, then pray for her, and continue to talk to her. She is your sister after all. When she might be up to it, just discuss some issues with her in a polite way.

Remember that they’re alot of Catholics out there that don’t have the time or money to do alot of research about their faith. Some will never accept the NFP way. Some will use “abortofacient” birth control.

We’re under orders to pray for them, and continue to love them .
 
kage_ar said:
Condoms are against God’s law. This is not an option.
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A non-spermicidal condom is a venial sin and can be justifiable according with conscience. Remember some Catholics are in abusive relationships and could be forced into sex. It sounds like this girl is in a vulnerable situation because of her age however, I cannot say if she freely consented to sex or was pushed into it. I know a lot of people that have been raped: my aunt, my grandmother and one of my friends as far as I know. Non-spermicidal and non-lubricated condoms are one of the few non-abortifacient forms of birth control and is slightly less ethical than NFP. Not all methods of NFP are entirely ethically OK in the eyes of the Church. You can also wash your condoms aswell as buying non-spermicidal. Some lambskin condoms (sheep’s intestines) may be non-lubricated as well as being non-spermicidal but I’m not 100% sure.
 
budgie2 said:
A non-spermicidal condom is a venial sin and can be justifiable according with conscience. Remember some Catholics are in abusive relationships and could be forced into sex. It sounds like this girl is in a vulnerable situation because of her age however, I cannot say if she freely consented to sex or was pushed into it. I know a lot of people that have been raped: my aunt, my grandmother and one of my friends as far as I know. Non-spermicidal and non-lubricated condoms are one of the few non-abortifacient forms of birth control and is slightly less ethical than NFP. Not all methods of NFP are entirely ethically OK in the eyes of the Church. You can also wash your condoms aswell as buying non-spermicidal. Some lambskin condoms (sheep’s intestines) may be non-lubricated as well as being non-spermicidal but I’m not 100% sure.
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Post an official Church document that states that any form of birth control is permitted, less or more ethical. Also, please show your claimed conditions for sin mortal/venial.

Not what your “mum” told you, or some friend who’s uncle’s cousin was in seminary - what does the Church teach?

It is dishonest to misrepresent the authority of the advice you give.

Rape is a sin and a crime. Women who have been through this need medical, spiritual and emotional support. Condoms have no part in the care of a woman who has been a victim of this crime.
 
The official Catholic Church teaching is (1) that all forms of contraception within the context of consensual, marital relations are sinful, and (2) that all sexual relations other than consensual, marital relations are sinful.

There is no official teaching that the use of contraception outside of consensual, marital relations is any more or less sinful than the immoral sexual relations themselves. Needless to say, there is plenty of theological speculation on this question.
 
budgie2 said:
A non-spermicidal condom is a venial sin and can be justifiable according with conscience. Remember some Catholics are in abusive relationships and could be forced into sex. It sounds like this girl is in a vulnerable situation because of her age however, I cannot say if she freely consented to sex or was pushed into it. I know a lot of people that have been raped: my aunt, my grandmother and one of my friends as far as I know. Non-spermicidal and non-lubricated condoms are one of the few non-abortifacient forms of birth control and is slightly less ethical than NFP. Not all methods of NFP are entirely ethically OK in the eyes of the Church. You can also wash your condoms aswell as buying non-spermicidal. Some lambskin condoms (sheep’s intestines) may be non-lubricated as well as being non-spermicidal but I’m not 100% sure.
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Do you honestly think a husband or boyfriend who would rape his wife/girlfriend will be kind and considerate enough of his victim to use a condom?

kage_ar is right, your beliefs are wholly out of line with Church teaching, and you should not represent them as such.

Why should we believe you over 2,000 years of Church teaching, anyway? 🤷
 
budgie2 said:
A non-spermicidal condom is a venial sin and can be justifiable according with conscience. Remember some Catholics are in abusive relationships and could be forced into sex. It sounds like this girl is in a vulnerable situation because of her age however, I cannot say if she freely consented to sex or was pushed into it. I know a lot of people that have been raped: my aunt, my grandmother and one of my friends as far as I know. Non-spermicidal and non-lubricated condoms are one of the few non-abortifacient forms of birth control and is slightly less ethical than NFP. Not all methods of NFP are entirely ethically OK in the eyes of the Church. You can also wash your condoms aswell as buying non-spermicidal. Some lambskin condoms (sheep’s intestines) may be non-lubricated as well as being non-spermicidal but I’m not 100% sure.
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Condoms are not permitted by the church in conjugal relations. Condomistic sex in marriage is not unitive or procreative . Condoms are a contraceptive and are not permissable in marriage. The only type of condoms that is allowed is a perforated condom in the case of medical testing.
Please study some good Catholic resources. Many of your posts with regard to sexuality are not correct and in some cases downright strange. Perhaps you have a priest you can discuss these things with. Perhaps he can recommend a good moral theology book for you. You could always pick up The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West and also Holy Sex by Greg Popcak. You are giving a lot of wrong advice in these forums. I am assuming in error . I am hoping not in defiance of church teaching.
 
Seatuck said:
Condoms are not permitted by the church in conjugal relations. Condomistic sex in marriage is not unitive or procreative . Condoms are a contraceptive and are not permissable in marriage. The only type of condoms that is allowed is a perforated condom in the case of medical testing.
Please study some good Catholic resources. Many of your posts with regard to sexuality are not correct and in some cases downright strange. Perhaps you have a priest you can discuss these things with. Perhaps he can recommend a good moral theology book for you. You could always pick up The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West and also Holy Sex by Greg Popcak. You are giving a lot of wrong advice in these forums. I am assuming in error . I am hoping not in defiance of church teaching.
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I know people that have been abusive married and non-married relationships where the abuse is on-going and they have stayed in those relationships for the sake of children. Sometimes these people that say that everybody can abstain are in non-abusive relationships and certainly have no idea how to deal with this situation. Yours is based on theology not experience and there needs to be a bit of both.
 
budgie2 said:
I know people that have been abusive married and non-married relationships where the abuse is on-going and they have stayed in those relationships for the sake of children. Sometimes these people that say that everybody can abstain are in non-abusive relationships and certainly have no idea how to deal with this situation. Yours is based on theology not experience and there needs to be a bit of both.
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Budgie, if you know someone in the abusive situation you describe, it would be far more loving for you to encourage them to get out of the relationship than to suggest that they use condoms to accomodate their bodies to further abuse. It does not help children to have two parents living under the same roof when one parent is abusing the other. So I’m not suggesting that these spouses insist on abstinence, I’m suggesting that they insist on leaving a dangerous situation.

All types of contraception are intrinsically disordered. The theology of the Church is not impractical, as you suggest. It is based on a genuine understanding of the good of the person. When the Church says that condoms hurt spouses, she means it.
 
nodito said:
Budgie, if you know someone in the abusive situation you describe, it would be far more loving for you to encourage them to get out of the relationship than to suggest that they use condoms to accomodate their bodies to further abuse. It does not help children to have two parents living under the same roof when one parent is abusing the other. So I’m not suggesting that these spouses insist on abstinence, I’m suggesting that they insist on leaving a dangerous situation.

All types of contraception are intrinsically disordered. The theology of the Church is not impractical, as you suggest. It is based on a genuine understanding of the good of the person. When the Church says that condoms hurt spouses, she means it.
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So do you believe divorce is better than the use of condoms or at least separation? If a couple are divorced they can’t have children at all. A couple using condoms for a while could go on to have children and can take care of the children they’ve already got. I think the use of non-spermicidal condoms and vasectomy is a lesser sin than adultery, however an abortifacient is a greater sin as it breaks the commandment “Thou shalt not kill.” What commandment does the use of condoms break?
 
budgie2 said:
So do you believe divorce is better than the use of condoms or at least separation? If a couple are divorced they can’t have children at all. A couple using condoms for a while could go on to have children and can take care of the children they’ve already got. I think the use of non-spermicidal condoms and vasectomy is a lesser sin than adultery, however an abortifacient is a greater sin as it breaks the commandment “Thou shalt not kill.” What commandment does the use of condoms break?
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If a woman is in an abusive situation, she needs out. She does not need a tubal ligation or condoms. She does not need to bring any more babies into the family. She needs to take her children and get them all to a safe place.

The Church permits divorce when it’s for the protection of children or spouses and for the purposes of child custody. It sees such an arrangment as similar to legal separation and considers the spouses to remain validly married unless and until they receive an annulment. Couples who divorce but do not remarry are not guilty of adultery. If the abusive spouse gets counseling and ceases to be a threat to the health or wellbeing of the other, then the couple may decide to have more children. But until that happens, the abused spouse is under no obligation to remain in the same house as her abuser. In fact, I would argue that she has a greater obligation to leave.

Contraception, however, is always intrincially disordered. It is always grave matter. A vastecomy is the mutiliation of a perfectly healthy reproductive system. Neither this nor any other form of contraception can ever be permitted. The sixth commandment is a prohibition against all forms of marital inchastity, including adultery, fornication, and, yes, condom use.
 
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