NFP frustration VENT (warning TMI)

[kparlet]

I am at the end of my rope.

DH is not Catholic. He’s really not receptive to hearing the “Why’s” on the Catholic ban on contraception. He tolerates NFP. Although he fully understands the risks involved with hormonal BC and he fully supports my refusal to use it, he doesn’t “get” why barrier methods are wrong. But he reluctantly cooperates.

What he does not accept is my refusal to use other means to “take care of him” when I’m ovulating. He thinks I just don’t care about his misery and his needs and I’m just being selfish. He doesn’t get that oral sex is just another form of contraception.

So, every time there is a long period of abstinence, I have to deal with guilt trips and anger from him. I have had it. I am just near tears right now. There is a serious communication problem here and I don’t know what to do about it. How do I make him understand Church teaching when he doesn’t want to hear it. He would rather believe that I’m just being selfish.

I don’t know how much more of this I can take. This has been going on for several years and I am beyond frustrated.

masondoggy,

You are in my prayers! I just went through this myself…to the point where my husband nearly threatened to divorce me because I told him exclusive oral sex was out of the question. All I can suggest is to firstly, pray about it and pray often and secondly, make him realize that distance makes the heart grow fonder…by this I mean, make the times that you are able to be together really special, especially the first day of infertility (and try to be the initiator of the experience).

I don’t know how this will work for you, but it did for me. Good luck with this!

 

[johnnyjoe]

Interfaith marriage is hard. And it is especially a cross for me to bear because I happened to marry someone who not only is not Catholic, but was raised in an anti-Catholic Baptist church. It would definitely be easier for me if he was more accepting/understanding of Catholicism.

But I have to offer up my frustration, my loneliness, my sadness when I have to go to Mass alone and watch other couples attend together, and our marriage struggles for his conversion. I have always believed that is what God wanted. (although He sure is taking a long time on this conversion road… )

I would say the heart of the problem is not the Church’s teaching on sex and marriage - it is the Church itself.

As an NFP instructor, I can tell you the one most important factor in the successful practice of NFP is the suppor of the husband. That support ALWAYS, at some point, requires the man to make a sacrifice of desire for the greater good of the children and the marriage. In cultures past, the local prostitute filled the bill, for contraception for the wife was not an option.

Since contraception is the load bearing foundation for this culture’s sexual ethic, he is torn by the expectations the culture has placed in his heart - the self-fullfilling desire of lust that is thought to be “just”, and so you are denying him “justice”.

But sexual self-mastery has always been a teaching of Christ. Perhaps, as a baptist, scripture would be a better approach - over a “Church” document. I am thinking of Matthew 19:3-12. Here we see the pharisees questioning Jesus about divorce, and his response creates the sacrment of matrimony, and the prohibition of divorce. He follows that teaching with the example of His life - “…[12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”

Christ Himself saw sexual self-mastery as a action taken “…for the sake of the kingdom.” I doubt he will find solace in the scriptural challenge, but he may be spurred to looking at the Word of God in the scriptures to find his answers. Once he opens that Holy Book, he places himself under the movements of the Holy Sprit - a breeze he needs to feel wash over him in this time of trial.

I have been were he is… we contracepted for many years before we adopted NFP, and after a while, I didn’t need any chart to know when my wife was fertile.

Conversely, if he is truly looking at you, he will be “turned off” by your lack of desire, but that is only something that comes with time and sensitivity. The noise of our over-sexed culture is very influential. The cross of chastity imposed on the unwilling is heavy indeed, and I know the Lord sees you carrying them both right now. May God bless you for your efforts.

My sense - and I am just a man who have seen non-catholics struggle with this before - is that scripture is the only real shared link between Catholics and non-catholics. Perhaps you can have him show you the biblical justification for contraception? Perhaps that would be too “in your face”… I know I took great solace in the scripture passage above, perhaps he can as well.

My prayers are with you…
John

 

[masondoggy]

I would say the heart of the problem is not the Church’s teaching on sex and marriage - it is the Church itself.

As an NFP instructor, I can tell you the one most important factor in the successful practice of NFP is the suppor of the husband. That support ALWAYS, at some point, requires the man to make a sacrifice of desire for the greater good of the children and the marriage. In cultures past, the local prostitute filled the bill, for contraception for the wife was not an option.

Since contraception is the load bearing foundation for this culture’s sexual ethic, he is torn by the expectations the culture has placed in his heart - the self-fullfilling desire of lust that is thought to be “just”, and so you are denying him “justice”.

But sexual self-mastery has always been a teaching of Christ. Perhaps, as a baptist, scripture would be a better approach - over a “Church” document. I am thinking of Matthew 19:3-12. Here we see the pharisees questioning Jesus about divorce, and his response creates the sacrment of matrimony, and the prohibition of divorce. He follows that teaching with the example of His life - “…[12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”

Christ Himself saw sexual self-mastery as a action taken “…for the sake of the kingdom.” I doubt he will find solace in the scriptural challenge, but he may be spurred to looking at the Word of God in the scriptures to find his answers. Once he opens that Holy Book, he places himself under the movements of the Holy Sprit - a breeze he needs to feel wash over him in this time of trial.

I have been were he is… we contracepted for many years before we adopted NFP, and after a while, I didn’t need any chart to know when my wife was fertile.

Conversely, if he is truly looking at you, he will be “turned off” by your lack of desire, but that is only something that comes with time and sensitivity. The noise of our over-sexed culture is very influential. The cross of chastity imposed on the unwilling is heavy indeed, and I know the Lord sees you carrying them both right now. May God bless you for your efforts.

My sense - and I am just a man who have seen non-catholics struggle with this before - is that scripture is the only real shared link between Catholics and non-catholics. Perhaps you can have him show you the biblical justification for contraception? Perhaps that would be too “in your face”… I know I took great solace in the scripture passage above, perhaps he can as well.

My prayers are with you…
John

I agree. Scripture is the way to go with him. I think I need to do some studying up myself and then sit down and have a long discussion with him about this.

 

[Peterdiago]

What he does not accept is my refusal to use other means to “take care of him” when I’m ovulating. He thinks I just don’t care about his misery and his needs and I’m just being selfish.

I do not know your husband, and so I cannot make a complete judgement of his character but - in all charity - if that is what he has said then he appears to be a little bit of a jerk.

I am sure he is not - you would not have married him. I am certain that he has admirable qualities which make him a lovely man. If I met him, I would probably like him.

However, all I see of him here is that he appears to be demanding that you service him sexually whenever he wants to be serviced, even though you do not wish to (for a number of reasons).

Is that a fair assessment of what he says? Or is this just the picture I have got from reading your post - which obviously will not contain all the details?

It does rather seem as if he is saying “I want you to service me sexually, even though you do not wish to participate in sexual activity (for whatever reason - namely because the various types would lead to conception or be sinful).”

Speaking as a man, if someone said that to my sister, I would have a hard time speaking civilly to him at the very least.

Again, I mean no disrespect for your husband - I am certain that there must be something to the subject which I am missing because you have simply given me a short version of the tale.

But . . . that sounds like he is trying to force himself on you, even if it is not physical. That is, and this is a very ugly word for which I apologise, that is rape.

I think presenting this to him in that light might produce some decent results.

 

[Georgess]

Appreciate the humility and openness of O.P , in an area that impact many in our times ; a few points to share, with the hope that it will help others in similar situations .

1 -For breast feeding parents , it is good for the father to realise that he has the fulfilling and important role - to feed the soul and mind of all three - by reading out the scriptures - to them …and to feel the joy and fulfillment of being a part of something good and right …

2 - Being able to search out and deal with areas where there might be so called bondages … have heard of instances where gifted priests have brought attention to something that seem as simple as having a written horoscope in the house as a cause of trouble …

If the ancestors were anticatholic, would it be good to have the Holy Mass offered , for them …as well as for the living .(.and for all in the bondage of sexual sin - supposed to be an easy access route for , you know who ) …petitions at good prayer sites …reparation in area of tithing …and the easily overlooked Fri. meat / penance directive from The Church; as simple and even childish as it seems , it can also be very useful to bring out one’s attitude - love or lack of it towards The Church …The Eucharist … is one willing to give up something as simple as meat on Fri as a sign of respect, willingness to listen - to The Church …each other … ( not indicating here about O.P per se - just a general observation )

3 - eating patterns , with less stimulants , sugars , even from such sources as juices …more of Magnesium and protien rich foods … predominantly legumes ( called the Daniel diet by some )

4 - being made aware of the possibility of adverse effects from areas of sinful behaviors and bondages …we have may be an epidemic of Reflux disease …with heart burn …possibility of related lung dieases … ( again not implicating those suffering are the immediate cause )…

5 - Do most couples who find the practice of N.F .P peaceful have separate sleeping arrangements during that time …who knows , if such an arranegement and the resultant fidelity to The Church and the peace of righteous living , has the possibility of bringing years of healthy , peaceful living together down the road …with blessings on the coming generations …good grandchildren who will love the grandparents …and so on …

In some cultures , the expectant mom is brought back to be cared for by her own parents , for the last three months of pregnancy and often do not return to the husband’s home for a good 6 months afterwards ; husband come to visit …often complications such as prematurity are lower…

not aware of problems of widespread immorality in such situations either …possibly due to high value placed on chastity as well as the negative attitudes towards dating /seduction…esp. in early years and the whole concept of marriage as a responsible choice made with the blessing of God and family , and many, even professionals , opting for arranged marriages …

Looking forward to seeing more helpful hints from those who live heroically …

 

[johnnyjoe]

I agree. Scripture is the way to go with him. I think I need to do some studying up myself and then sit down and have a long discussion with him about this.

You know part of our conversion to the practice of NFP was the book “Rome Sweet Home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. His conversion to the Catholic faith was initiated by Kimberly’s scriptural study of the issue of contraception. The book does a good job of outlining the scriptural prohibitions in a very straight forward and understandable way.

A few passages to look at are of course the original Genesis passages with marriage as God intended it. Adam’s response to meeting Eve is a passage I try to keep in mind whenever I look at my wife in the bedroom…really.

Jesus recalled the sanctity of marriage in Matthew 19: 3-12 where he called up the Genesis passage as being Gods intention “…from the beginning.”

You can also look at John Paul II’s Love and Responsibility for some moral support… you can find a good summary of that book here.

I will pray to the Holy Spirit for you and your Husband…Blow Holy Spirit, Blow!

 

[masondoggy]

You know part of our conversion to the practice of NFP was the book “Rome Sweet Home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. His conversion to the Catholic faith was initiated by Kimberly’s scriptural study of the issue of contraception. The book does a good job of outlining the scriptural prohibitions in a very straight forward and understandable way.

A few passages to look at are of course the original Genesis passages with marriage as God intended it. Adam’s response to meeting Eve is a passage I try to keep in mind whenever I look at my wife in the bedroom…really.

Jesus recalled the sanctity of marriage in Matthew 19: 3-12 where he called up the Genesis passage as being Gods intention “…from the beginning.”

You can also look at John Paul II’s Love and Responsibility for some moral support… you can find a good summary of that book here.

I will pray to the Holy Spirit for you and your Husband…Blow Holy Spirit, Blow!

Thanks for that suggestion. I have a copy of the Hahn’s book. I’ll dig it out today and re-read it.

 

[setter]

Any chance of getting your husband around mature NFP practicing men? This may be a persuasive factor on some level for him that he is not from Planet X for respecting your beliefs.

 

[masondoggy]

Any chance of getting your husband around mature NFP practicing men? This may be a persuasive factor on some level for him that he is not from Planet X for respecting your beliefs.

That would be great if I could. Unfortunately, I do not know anybody IRL who practices NFP.

 

[BlazingBolt]

Something that might help, if your open to it, is that fellatio is OK according to the Church as long as you do not intend to bring your partner to climax and are using it as foreplay in preparation for the regular act. Same goes for using your hands. This won’t alleviate your problem if you are abstaining during fertile periods since your not intending to go all the way, but it might help you come up with a compromise or something. Also you should know that if your husband refuses to use NFP you are not commiting sin as long as you do not actively contracept. If it is for the good of your marriage you should not refuse normal relations with him as long as you are not sinning by intentionally contracepting. Husbands and wives have a duty to provide intimacy to each other. You may refuse because you have a good reason for not wanting to get pregnant, but if he wants to have relations with you anyway and he contracepts in order to do so then you are not sinning by having relations with him and probably should not refuse him.

 

[katybird]

If he’s not interested in the Church’s teaching, I hope that he can at least be understanding of YOUR need for YOUR religion. If you tell him, “I need my religion. It is vital for my happiness and I would be utterly lost without it. If I do what you ask of me, I will be cut off from my religious faith, unable to receive communion and that would make me miserable. I know you don’t get it, but I hope that you would respect it. I can show you what the Church teaches in writing, if you like, but I cannot violate my religious beliefs because that would mean abandoning my religious faith, which would make me miserable.”

I mean, I may not really get why Jews and Moslem’s won’t eat pork, but I sure as heck understand that it IS important to them and I would never urge them to do anything that made them feel alienated from God.

To not be able to do this means there is a severe lack of respect for that person’s happiness.

 

[Listener]

If it is any comfort, I can tell you that it is possible to have the same problem, even when the husband is Catholic. There are some men who don’t want anything to do with NFP even though they aren’t practicing artificial birth control. It is my experience that the Church’s teaching on birth control sounds really good on paper. I used to really envy Catholic couples who could actually put this thing into practice because both husband and wife agreed it was a good thing. However, there are just too many variations of opinions between husbands and wives. For every couple where both agree to practice NFP, there is probably a couple where the wife wants to practice NFP and the husband wants to either practice ABC or nothing at all. Then you have the situation where the husband feels guilty because he wants to practice NFP, but the wife is either on the pill or using something else.

When both spouses agree to practice NFP, my understanding is that this can make your marriage wonderful! Well, if you are stuck in one of the other situations, it can turn your life into a living hell. I completely understand what the poster is going through, and I am sure glad that I am too old to have to worry about birth control in any way, shape or form!