"NFP = God can make His plan happen"

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thebookofesther said:
Even if they are not using NFP for dire reasons (which the majority are not) NFP should still be a serious sin without bishop’s dispensation. NFP shows no faith in God’s plan for you. Put you faith completely in God’s hands, He knows what is perfect for you, you do not.
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Also, the Church does not require “dire” reasons to use NFP, it requires “serious” reasons. There is a significant difference.
 
@bookofesther: While I see others have already addressed your points, I also want to ask how you could possibly know what the “majority” of NFP users have as reasons. Isn’t such an assertion itself coming close to calumny? Hmmmm?

further, you have, as I understand it, affirmatively misstated the criteria for the employment of fertility awareness, as has already been pointed out. “Dire” is not the status that must be encountered before fertility awareness may be used, but rather serious and just more accurately capture what the Church teaches. Perhaps you could cite some authority for your assertion that a “bishop’s dispensation”, whatever that means in this case, would be necessary? Because otherwise, I think this is just your personal opinion. I think you acknowledge as much by saying it “should” be a sin.

Humane Vitae set out the criteria for responsible parenthood, and it is up to the couple to determine, prayerfully, if they are being called to have a(nother) child in the particular circumstances of each month.
 
1ke said:
Unless one considers it in the most narrow sense of the couple positively cooperating with God versus actively attempting to thwart God.
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I think that’s the difference exactly. It’s about the couple’s attitude.
 
PaulinVA said:
I would ask you this. Do you believe that God intervenes on a daily basis in the biology that he created? Do you believe that He causes conception on those days that the woman is infertile, or that he purposely thwarts conception according to some plan or fertile days? It would seem more likely that He cooperates with the biology He created.

Do you believe that these words that Jeremiah heard from God apply to everyone in every time?
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No, everyone doesn’t have a soul and God doesn’t know everybody.
 
choose_to_love said:
@bookofesther: While I see others have already addressed your points, I also want to ask how you could possibly know what the “majority” of NFP users have as reasons. Isn’t such an assertion itself coming close to calumny? Hmmmm?

further, you have, as I understand it, affirmatively misstated the criteria for the employment of fertility awareness, as has already been pointed out. “Dire” is not the status that must be encountered before fertility awareness may be used, but rather serious and just more accurately capture what the Church teaches. Perhaps you could cite some authority for your assertion that a “bishop’s dispensation”, whatever that means in this case, would be necessary? Because otherwise, I think this is just your personal opinion. I think you acknowledge as much by saying it “should” be a sin.

Humane Vitae set out the criteria for responsible parenthood, and it is up to the couple to determine, prayerfully, if they are being called to have a(nother) child in the particular circumstances of each month.
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Holy Spirit
 
mini_me640 said:
The Church does not consider NFP to be a serious sin and does not require any dispensation. Do you know better than the Church? The Church allows couples to discern for themselves if they have serious reason to avoid. God made our bodies work in a certain way and he allows us to use our knowledge of that. By your reasoning, should we not wear seat belts in the car, take medicine when we are sick, etc.? Trusting in God often means using the tools and abilities He gave us.
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Because the Church has never gotten anything wrong before.
 
TraderTif said:
That’s like saying that someone with a severe, life-threatening wheat allergy should go ahead and receive the Host, and simply ask God for no reaction.

:rolleyes:
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You know God has allowed for you to get a wheat allergy, you do not know God’s will for your future children.
 
@bookofesther: I do not understand your response. Will you elaborate when you have a chance?

How is mini me’s accurately stating the criteria that a couple is to use to determine if they have reasons to postpone pregnancy “getting worse”? Again, could you elaborate? I am not understanding your point.

You did not respond to my question about the authority for a bishop needing to grant a “dispenstation”, whatever that is, for a couple to use NFP licitly.
 
choose_to_love said:
@bookofesther: I do not understand your response. Will you elaborate when you have a chance?

How is mini me’s accurately stating the criteria that a couple is to use to determine if they have a reasons to postpone pregnancy getting worse? Again, could you elaborate? I am not understanding your point.

You did not respond to my question about the authority for a bishop needing to grant a “dispenstation”, whatever that is, for a couple to use NFP licitly.
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Holy Spirit. And the criteria is clearly dead wrong.
 
OK, bookof, since you apparently do not want to use a full sentence to explain your statements, and only re-state the original unclear response (maybe you should use all caps next time and type slowly, and I’ll get it then), I am going to spell it out.

You are saying that the Holy Spirit directly told you that the majority of couples using NFP do not have “dire” reasons to postpone pregnancy, and that dire reasons are the only reasons that would justify periodic continence.

Okaaaaaaaay.

How did the Holy Spirit impart this information to you?

If my understanding is wrong, kindly elaborate, or just state “Holy Spirit” without commentary again (or try the all caps & slow typing thing).

How are the criteria, as set forth by Pius XII, and Paul VI in Humanae Vitae, “clearly wrong”? Where is the error? Do you acknowledge that the term “serious” and “just” are used, not dire?
 
choose_to_love said:
OK, bookof, since you apparently do not want to use a full sentence to explain your statements, and only re-state the original unclear response (maybe you should use all caps next time and type slowly, and I’ll get it then), I am going to spell it out.

You are saying that the Holy Spirit directly told you that the majority of couples using NFP do not have “dire” reasons to postpone pregnancy, and that dire reasons are the only reasons that would justify periodic continence.

Okaaaaaaaay.

How did the Holy Spirit impart this information to you?

If my understanding is wrong, kindly elaborate, or just state “Holy Spirit” without commentary again (or try the all caps & slow typing thing).

How are the criteria, as set forth by Pius XII, and Paul VI in Humanae Vitae, “clearly wrong”? Where is the error? Do you acknowledge that the term “serious” and “just” are used, not dire?
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God wants you to put your life and trust into his hands your only job is to love your wife and allow Him to reveal His plan for you, just as your will holds true. Don’t worry about what that will may be, don’t worry about what you think is best for you and your future kids just let God do His work and thank Him for whatever that means for you.
 
TraderTif said:
That’s like saying that someone with a severe, life-threatening wheat allergy should go ahead and receive the Host, and simply ask God for no reaction.

:rolleyes:
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Why are you not confident God will hear your prayers?
 
bilop said:
Church dogma and doctrine have never erred in matters of faith and morals. That is De Fide.

God Bless
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And God bless that. This rule does not apply for Natural Family Planning.
 
thebookofesther said:
Your point gets worse and worse as it goes along.
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I’m just stating the Church’s teaching. You are stating your own opinion. So if you think your opinions are stronger arguments than Church teaching, we’re probably not going to get anywhere in this discussion.
 
thebookofesther said:
No, everyone doesn’t have a soul and God doesn’t know everybody.
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That makes it so much easier to understand you because you must not be referencing Catholic teaching. Of course God knows everybody :rolleyes: And can you please elaborate on “no, everyone doesn’t have a soul”. Because that’s not a Church teaching either.
 
Rence said:
That makes it so much easier to understand you because you must not be referencing Catholic teaching. Of course God knows everybody :rolleyes: And can you please elaborate on “no, everyone doesn’t have a soul”. Because that’s not a Church teaching either.
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Clearly that’s what your implications were by your unbeliveable questions of God’s lack of involvement. You’re good at making sarcastic faces, but picking up on sarcasm not so much, I guess.
 
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