NFP Makes No Sense To Me

[Elizabeth502]

No denying the maths, although some of us do seem to be potentially fertile on many more days than others ! But there does seem to me to be a big difference between having sex when you want to get pregnant or are totally relaxed about the possibility and only having sex when you are 90% sure you can’t because you are trying not to.

To some extent, I agree , that there is some variation. But overall, the approximate math is that most women are fertile (generously) anywhere from 20-25% of the time, and infertile 75-80% of the time. Yet to hear it on this thread, one would think that it’s the reverse. The math doesn’t add up, folks. It is simply not biologically possible to be fertile in those high proportions per month. You are not ovulating 75-80% of the month, no matter how fertile you imagine yourself to be. And here are some further medical facts: women who have cycles which are erratic to such an extreme that they are wildly unpredictable and have enormous variations within them every month generally have lowered fertility, not heightened.

If you want 0% chance of getting pregnant, then always, the best policy – married or unmarried – is complete abstinence. That’s the only guarantee. So don’t say that NFP is the culprit; say that abstinence is putting a strain on your marriage, because really, that’s what you’re practicing: abstinence with token and nervous indulgence. And that’s not really an NFP Plan. It’s not rational, i.m.o. There aren’t that many outliers in the normal reproductive cycle of women, so that it’s necessary to have a teenager’s unsophisticated and highly cautionary belief that she could get pregnant “at any time.” (Not that I’m advocating teenage sex! )

When my husband and I were avoiding pregnancy and thought the consequences would be dire if we failed to avoid, we nevertheless realized after not much experimentation that all that worry was not necessary, and served no purpose, including for our relationship. Infertility was never more important than our relationship, and trust – of each other, of nature, of God – was (always is) an important element of that relationship.

And here’s another medical fact: there’s a correlation between high anxiety, especially in the female, and infertility.

 

[JackieMom]

To some extent, I agree , that there is some variation. But overall, the approximate math is that most women are fertile (generously) anywhere from 20-25% of the time, and infertile 75-80% of the time. Yet to hear it on this thread, one would think that it’s the reverse. The math doesn’t add up, folks. It is simply not biologically possible to be fertile in those high proportions per month. You are not ovulating 75-80% of the month, no matter how fertile you imagine yourself to be. And here are some further medical facts: women who have cycles which are erratic to such an extreme that they are wildly unpredictable and have enormous variations within them every month generally have lowered fertility, not heightened.

If you want 0% chance of getting pregnant, then always, the best policy – married or unmarried – is complete abstinence. That’s the only guarantee. So don’t say that NFP is the culprit; say that abstinence is putting a strain on your marriage, because really, that’s what you’re practicing: abstinence with token and nervous indulgence. And that’s not really an NFP Plan. It’s not rational, i.m.o. There aren’t that many outliers in the normal reproductive cycle of women, so that it’s necessary to have a teenager’s unsophisticated and highly cautionary belief that she could get pregnant “at any time.” (Not that I’m advocating teenage sex! )

When my husband and I were avoiding pregnancy and thought the consequences would be dire if we failed to avoid, we nevertheless realized after not much experimentation that all that worry was not necessary, and served no purpose, including for our relationship. Infertility was never more important than our relationship, and trust – of each other, of nature, of God – was (always is) an important element of that relationship.

And here’s another medical fact: there’s a correlation between high anxiety, especially in the female, and infertility.

Using NFP to avoid, most women need to abstain 6-7 days prior to ovulation (semen can live up to 6 days in the female reproductive system) and 2-3 days post confirmed ovulation. Take away a week (give or take) for menstruation and most avoiding couples have about 10 days a month available for sex. Granted, it’s usually ten days in a row and not scattered throughout the month. If the couple decides to have sex during menstruation, there could be an extra few days thrown in.

I hate NFP, but we’re going to be using it for a long time. However, the lack of sex doesn’t bother us that much. Frankly, it’s much more infrequent during and after pregnancy! My husband never has to exhibit the kind of self control during avoidance NFP that he does during my pregnancies and in the months afterward.

 

[Scytha]

This is the same feeling that I have. If intent is what is important here, then I don’t see how the negative means of avoiding pregnancy (ie: no sex during fertile times) is any different than other negative means of avoiding pregnancy (ie: using a rubber, or PO). I know about the verse in Genesis about Onan, but wasn’t he struck down for neglecting to have a child with his brother’s wife? Just like Jonah’s sin wasn’t how he got to Nineveh, but just that he didn’t want to go? My husband is a former seminarian that chose another path in life and of course, is now married to me. We have two small children (three ys and four mo) in the house. I have IMMENSE trouble with abstaining and we cannot financially handle another child (plus I am already 30 and am getting into risk-factor time regarding healthy pregnancies). We have had so many fights (we never did before we began using NFP), there is such a chasm between us and we don’t even enjoy being around each other any more. I am so sad. I just don’t see the difference here. My marriage that was otherwise nearly “perfect” is coming apart at the seams.

 

[mommamaree]

This is the same feeling that I have. If intent is what is important here, then I don’t see how the negative means of avoiding pregnancy (ie: no sex during fertile times) is any different than other negative means of avoiding pregnancy (ie: using a rubber, or PO). I know about the verse in Genesis about Onan, but wasn’t he struck down for neglecting to have a child with his brother’s wife? Just like Jonah’s sin wasn’t how he got to Nineveh, but just that he didn’t want to go? My husband is a former seminarian that chose another path in life and of course, is now married to me. We have two small children (three ys and four mo) in the house. I have IMMENSE trouble with abstaining and we cannot financially handle another child (plus I am already 30 and am getting into risk-factor time regarding healthy pregnancies). We have had so many fights (we never did before we began using NFP), there is such a chasm between us and we don’t even enjoy being around each other any more. I am so sad. I just don’t see the difference here. My marriage that was otherwise nearly “perfect” is coming apart at the seams.

The intent to avoid having a child is not the part of the action that is sinful. There could be just reasons for not desiring a pregnancy at a particular time in a marriage. What makes contraception sinful and NFP not sinful are the means. We may not choose to engage in the marital act while purposefully making it sterile. However, abstinence during fertile times, while having recourse to infertile times, honors the natural design God has built into female fertility and is respectful of the purposes and ends of sexual intercourse when it does happen.

 

[Scytha]

My problem is that we don’t want anymore children and NFP abstinence it just too difficult on me. I have higher “desires” during my Phase II time than I did while on ABC. It is like having to go through withdrawals every month. It is doing a number on our relationship. Neither of us are happy and I miss the level of relationship and friendship that we used to have. We don’t even sleep in the same bed during this time due to arguments and just general unhappiness.

 

[ringil]

I have nothing against NFP and can see why the Church is against Contraception. I personally disagree with the Church but in obedience my wife and I do not use it.

That being said NFP is not especially reliable for those using it to not have kids. My wife’s OBGYN, who is Catholic says that especially for a woman with irregular periods is simply isn’t reliable.

We have a daughter to show for it’s lack of reliability.

If a woman with regular periods does everything right with NFP it is somewhat helpful in SPACING kids, but folks really shouldn’t see it as fool-proof.

 

[Scytha]

I have nothing against NFP and can see why the Church is against Contraception. I personally disagree with the Church but in obedience my wife and I do not use it.

That being said NFP is not especially reliable for those using it to not have kids. My wife’s OBGYN, who is Catholic says that especially for a woman with irregular periods is simply isn’t reliable.

We have a daughter to show for it’s lack of reliability.

If a woman with regular periods does everything right with NFP it is somewhat helpful in SPACING kids, but folks really shouldn’t see it as fool-proof.

You guys don’t have any troubles with the abstinence?

 

[ringil]

You guys don’t have any troubles with the abstinence?

Nope. We’re in our 30’s- my wife just turned 40. Some of the youthful “vigor” has worn off.

Our daughter is 10 weeks old. We are very blessed and happy to have her but getting pregnant was not the objective.

 

[ringil]

I found out a few years ago that the “withdrawal” method wasn’t allowed either.

Truth is the Church wants folks having kids.

 

[Scytha]

I found out a few years ago that the “withdrawal” method wasn’t allowed either.

Truth is the Church wants folks having kids.

Well, you know we have two! It is not “natural” to not be intimate with your spouse. For a religious vocation, abstinence is different. I’m not saying that it is easier, but if you are tempted, you remove yourself from the situation. Being married and abstinent during Phase II is like starving to death and being asked to sit at the table closest to the buffet and being told not to eat! Then when your hunger finally subsides and you feel human again… only then are you allowed a plate. This is suppose to make me happy. This is craziness.

 

[mommamaree]

You guys don’t have any troubles with the abstinence?

You are not alone. Many couples struggle to different degrees with abstinence during fertile times. You and your husband can work together to find a way to express your love during abstinence, since you are not in a position to welcome another child now. Try not to be at odds about it, try to work as a team. It is difficult to wait, but try to look forward to when you can enjoy the marital act again. Renew your courtship during abstinence, if you can. Try hand holding, hugging, doing nice things for each other, making a date night centered on courtship activities (set aside parenting or marriage topics and talk about philosophy and current events, or watch a movie or play board games, all the kinds of things you did while dating).
It is easier to abstain if you fill the time with good things and plenty of physical activity to direct your excess energy, rather than allow yourself to dwell on what cannot happen. That can feel like torture, I know!
Anyway, those are just some thoughts I had that I hope will help you. I know it is hard. But just like developing new muscle, developing the virtue of chastity during continence in marriage takes some painful exercises at first. Then it gets easier and using that virtue becomes freeing and joyful. God bless. I will pray for you. Will you pray for me? I am 4 months postpartum and have postpartum return of fertility to go through soon and abstaining will be necessary for me again.

 

[Scytha]

You have my sympathy.

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, you know we have two! It is not “natural” to not be intimate with your spouse. For a religious vocation, abstinence is different. I’m not saying that it is easier, but if you are tempted, you remove yourself from the situation. Being married and abstinent during Phase II is like starving to death and being asked to sit at the table closest to the buffet and being told not to eat! Then when your hunger finally subsides and you feel human again… only then are you allowed a plate. This is suppose to make me happy. This is craziness.

I have been married for thirty years this year, and have been using NFP to avoid and to conceive for about 24.

This is not meant to be snarky at all, just an observation. Your posts make it sound like your marriage revolves around sex, and when that is taken away, there is nothing left. I do remember times when abstinence was extremely hard, but you have to try to master your desire. I’m being serious. There are other ways to be “intimate” . Sharing innermost thoughts, working together towards a common goal, doing chores together.

You know the talks that you have after you’ve had sex? Sometimes we just lay naked in the dark and talk, even though we haven’t had the sex.

Find a way for each of you to feel loved, connected, that doesn’t involve sex.

 

[Scytha]

This is not meant to be snarky at all, just an observation. Your posts make it sound like your marriage revolves around sex, and when that is taken away, there is nothing left. I do remember times when abstinence was extremely hard, but you have to try to master your desire. I’m being serious. There are other ways to be “intimate” . Sharing innermost thoughts, working together towards a common goal, doing chores together.

You know there is such a thing as being sexually frustrated. This can tend to affect every aspect of your relationship at times. This in no way means that your relationship evolves around sex. It just means that you have a healthy desire for your spouse that is being snuffed. There is nothing wrong with struggling with that.

 

[SusanneT]

. However, the lack of sex doesn’t bother us that much. Frankly, it’s much more infrequent during and after pregnancy! My husband never has to exhibit the kind of self control during avoidance NFP that he does during my pregnancies and in the months afterward.

Well done for pointing this out ! I’m not a fan or user of NFP, but for those who struggle with abstinence, surely pregnancy / post partum must be at least as big a challenge.

 

[ringil]

You know there is such a thing as being sexually frustrated. This can tend to affect every aspect of your relationship at times. This in no way means that your relationship evolves around sex. It just means that you have a healthy desire for your spouse that is being snuffed. There is nothing wrong with struggling with that.

And having a healthy sexual appetite is a strength in a marriage. Desire for sex can also be seen as a barometer of the quality of the relationship as a whole.

I wish there was more of it in my marriage.

You guys may be young. I say good for you!

 

[PaulGH]

I have nothing against NFP and can see why the Church is against Contraception. I personally disagree with the Church but in obedience my wife and I do not use it.

That being said NFP is not especially reliable for those using it to not have kids. My wife’s OBGYN, who is Catholic says that especially for a woman with irregular periods is simply isn’t reliable.

We have a daughter to show for it’s lack of reliability.

If a woman with regular periods does everything right with NFP it is somewhat helpful in SPACING kids, but folks really shouldn’t see it as fool-proof.

My wife has irregular periods. (Her shortest ever was 25 days; her longest was over 50 days.) Yet in over 12 years of marriage, we have not yet had a completely unplanned pregnancy. (We have had a couple of pregnancies where we didn’t strictly follow the NFP rules because we wanted to have another baby soon anyway, but no truly surprise pregnancies.) For some couples, NFP may not work. But it does work for many, even those with irregular cycles.

But as for it being “fool-proof” – you’re right; it’s not. But then neither is contraception, or even sterilization. (For example, I know someone whose sister got pregnant after having her tubes tied.)

 

[mommamaree]

You know there is such a thing as being sexually frustrated. This can tend to affect every aspect of your relationship at times. This in no way means that your relationship evolves around sex. It just means that you have a healthy desire for your spouse that is being snuffed. There is nothing wrong with struggling with that.

Thank you for your honesty. Sexual frustration is very difficult and is not only a problem for husbands. But something you said concerns me. You mention healthy desire being snuffed out. We should not be letting that happen. It is difficult to feel desire we cannot presently act upon. But we should not attempt to repress it. We can acknowledge it and regret not being able to enjoy sex presently. We can look forward to our opportunities to express our love in that way soon. And we can channel that energy into more appropriate activities. Sexual energy can be used to get very productive and creative in other ways when intercourse is not possible! . We can also look for ways to love our spouse and children that allows us to give of ourselves, which is how sexual energy motivates us in the first place.
The times when I handle abstinence with the most grace are times when I keep myself so busy that at bedtime I am falling asleep as I hit the pillow. Lots of exercise, household projects, fun with the kids, etc. i get so worn out that my frustration just goes away. Now of course it can then be difficult to slow down and reconnect sexually with my husband when we enter phase 3, so we try to start a countdown of date nights to stoke that fire as we pass peak day. I hope these ideas help you. I learned a lot here as I started to practice NFP to avoid, about how to build up my marriage while practicing NFP. There are a lot of veteran NFP users here who can help you. Have you thought about starting a thread on that topic, so you can get more advice that is relevant for you?

 

[agapewolf]

I have nothing against NFP and can see why the Church is against Contraception. I personally disagree with the Church but in obedience my wife and I do not use it.

That being said NFP is not especially reliable for those using it to not have kids. My wife’s OBGYN, who is Catholic says that especially for a woman with irregular periods is simply isn’t reliable.

We have a daughter to show for it’s lack of reliability.

If a woman with regular periods does everything right with NFP it is somewhat helpful in SPACING kids, but folks really shouldn’t see it as fool-proof.

Most obgyns know nothing about Nfp and feed you the se bull.

Nfp is FOR irregular cycles. If one has a regular cycle, all they need is a calendar.

 

[Em_in_FL]

You guys don’t have any troubles with the abstinence?

Of course we do… but the REASONS we are using NFP far outweigh that struggle.

My problem is that we don’t want anymore children and NFP abstinence it just too difficult on me.

NFP is acceptable for use when the REASONS for avoiding conception are serious or **grave **(wording depends on the particular encyclical or teaching from the church).
The abstinence IS hard… it’s *supposed *to be hard. It’s not natural to need to abstain - which is why the reasons should be **serious **or **grave **enough to outweigh that struggle.
Believe me… when there is a burden that is so heavy that it brings you to needing NFP… it doesn’t seem to be as bad…

So… is it just that you “don’t want anymore children”?
Maybe this is God’s way of asking you to reevaluate that.