NFP Misery, Couple Looking for HELP

[HusbandAndWife]

Hi,

I’m new here. Not really a forum person, but so desperate for help. It seems like a lot of people here know their stuff and can offer good advice, and man do we need it.

Here is our story. We married in 2004 after four years of dating. Four kids in 7 years - pregnancy just murder on my wife’s body. She says she never wants to be pregnant again. I don’t blame her, she had such bad vomiting and nausea and sciatica. With the last baby she was confined to bed and a wheelchair for 11 weeks. It seems like with her pregnancies it’s always SOMETHING. Luckily nothing life threatening, but just 9 months of anxiety, misery and sickness. Our babies have been tough. Tough to nurse, fussy sleepers. Great kids overall but I’m sure you know how draining parenting little kids is. My wife says she’s had it.

I work long hours and when I come home she’s standing there ready to give me all the kids and lock herself upstairs with a glass of wine and a magazine for an hour.

So, I get that she doesn’t ever want to be pregnant again. Honestly? I’m really happy with the family we have and I am so tired, so burned out and so BROKE. I don’t really want any more kids either. Of course we’d love anyone who came to our family - but we feel like we’re at our max.

So, NFP, right? We took a class. A good class. But my wife is so terrified of becoming pregnant that she refuses to have sex for 5 days prior to ovulation, the day of, and 5 days after. Her cycles are 27-28 days, so if you exclude her menstrual period that leaves about ten days a month for marital intimacy. Now, with four little ones, you know what that REALLY means - we’re having sex maybe two or three times a month. No good.

I can’t help it. Maybe I’m a dog but I get irritable without sex. I want to be with my wife. I feel closer to her through sex and not a whole lot else. I didn’t get married thinking I was going to have to live like a monk.

On top of that, when we do have sex, my wife gets really anxious about when I am near climax and sometimes pulls away and makes me stop. Every month, even if we follow her “rules” for sex, she obsesses about possibly being pregnant and takes multiple pregnancy tests until her period comes. A few days before her period is due, she starts getting really crazy and snapping at me. She says things like, “If I’m pregnant, I’m going to kill you!” Now, she’s not really going to kill me - but I don’t know! She says if I “get her pregnant” she will never speak to me again. And until her period comes, she’s an anxious mess. It’s bad.

But what can we do? She’s already told me she’d rather not have sex at all, but that she uses NFP so that I don’t explode and so that I keep helping out around the house (I tend to get really distant when it’s been a while.)

She’s even said, “You know, if you just went and got a vasectomy without telling me, it might be a good thing.” Honestly I’m thinking about it because this lifestyle is crazy and putting a HUGE wedge between us. She’s so terrified of becoming pregnant, and I can’t live in a sexless marriage. We can’t use birth control. So, we’re left with strict NFP that makes my wife nutty and so worried. I hate to see her like that.

I have shown her this post because I do not want to put this out there without her permission. I’m going to give her the opportunity to reply if she wants. For now, we can be “Scott and Colleen.”

Thank you.
S

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If NFP is something that you guys are committed to then she needs to see a doctor now so that she can be reassured about the odds of getting pregnant during her infertile times.

You guys also need to see a counselor. Now. This is bad for your marriage and you need more help than can be provided on the internet.

 

[nfpandme]

I don’t know what method you’ve learned but if you happen to practice Creighton there an additional lab draw that can be done to check progesterone (It’s checked on p+4 and if it’s above 4 then ovulation has occurred.) This may reassure her for any post peak activities. If you don’t use Creighton then I would suggest maybe learning about Marquette (it uses an ovulation prediction kit to measure LH and predict ovulation.) Let me know if you have any other questions about this. I’d be happy to help if I can. I’ll be praying for you both.

 

[Rita77]

go by her daily mucus patteren and nfp method rules not by asumming 5 days before ovulation etc.

her panic should ease with time with successfully learning to avoid with nfp. the more successfull cycles the safer she should feel.

each method is very different and works for different women even at different times in her life. I switch from creighton to ccl stm. the proper bbt temp shift is the only way to confirm ovulation (without taking a lab test for hormone levels or ultrasound). the cervix checks also help reassure the different phases. I like checking all the fertility signs in a cross checking way to reassure me of each phase in the cycle.

 

[etmom]

If she really is stressing about pregnancy risk, I’d advise using the post ovulatory days only after a thermal shift and cross checked by drying up and the cervix sign. Days prior to ovulation are low fertility, and the risk is always higher. I have gotten pregnant twice (once intentionally, once trying to avoid) by having relations 6 days prior to a thermal shift, so I certainly wouldn’t trust a 5 day prior myself personally.

It may reduce the number of days you have “available” by using post ovulatory days only, but the peace of mind it gives her should allow her to relax about it. Everyone I know who uses NFP for extremely serious health reasons and can NOT get pregnant uses post ovulatory days only. That’s also what I did after my last pregnancy when I had a csection, and it was essential to NOT get pregnant for at least 6 months of the surgery due to the a huge risk of uterine rupture and we had also just lost our newborn son.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

So, NFP, right? We took a class. A good class. But my wife is so terrified of becoming pregnant that she refuses to have sex for 5 days prior to ovulation, the day of, and 5 days after…On top of that, when we do have sex, my wife gets really anxious about when I am near climax and sometimes pulls away and makes me stop. Every month, even if we follow her “rules” for sex, she obsesses about possibly being pregnant and takes multiple pregnancy tests until her period comes. A few days before her period is due, she starts getting really crazy and snapping at me. She says things like, “If I’m pregnant, I’m going to kill you!” Now, she’s not really going to kill me - but I don’t know! She says if I “get her pregnant” she will never speak to me again. And until her period comes, she’s an anxious mess. It’s bad.

Okay, everyone, before you post detailed descriptions of your favorite method of NFP. I think it’s obvious that this is NOT a technical question about NFP. It is about a woman who has an extreme, bordering on irrational, fear of pregnancy. It is NOT NORMAL for any woman to take multiple pregnancy tests a month and to push away her DH during the act out of a fear of pregnancy.

OP, please, please, PLEASE get yourself and your wife into counseling. Hopefully you can find a counselor who respects Catholic beliefs about NFP (since I know Catholic counselors aren’t available to everyone and not all are faithful to Catholic teaching). NFP is NOT the problem here. I’m not even sure this topic is appropriate for this forum. Wow.

 

[Calliso]

Okay, everyone, before you post detailed descriptions of your favorite method of NFP. I think it’s obvious that this is NOT a technical question about NFP. It is about a woman who has an extreme, bordering on irrational, fear of pregnancy. It is NOT NORMAL for any woman to take multiple pregnancy tests a month and to push away her DH during the act out of a fear of pregnancy.

OP, please, please, PLEASE get yourself and your wife into counseling. Hopefully you can find a counselor who respects Catholic beliefs about NFP (since I know Catholic counselors aren’t available to everyone and not all are faithful to Catholic teaching). NFP is NOT the problem here. I’m not even sure this topic is appropriate for this forum. Wow.

Yeah to be honest I get the feeling that it wouldn;t matter how conservative of a form of nfp they used at this point the wife would still be panicking. I mean it sounds like they are being extremely careful already and can;t get that much more careful.

 

[twoangels]

Okay, everyone, before you post detailed descriptions of your favorite method of NFP. I think it’s obvious that this is NOT a technical question about NFP. It is about a woman who has an extreme, bordering on irrational, fear of pregnancy. It is NOT NORMAL for any woman to take multiple pregnancy tests a month and to push away her DH during the act out of a fear of pregnancy.

She has had very difficult pregancies, and both she and her husband seem to be at their or beyond their stress capacity levels. I would ot call that fear irrational.

She needs to grow in confidence in the effectiveness of NFP and she and her husband need to unite in NFP as something they do together. She needs to trust her husband with his conjugal rights and trust that he will not wrecklessly endanger the family, her life, her health, etc.

OP, please, please, PLEASE get yourself and your wife into counseling. Hopefully you can find a counselor who respects Catholic beliefs about NFP (since I know Catholic counselors aren’t available to everyone and not all are faithful to Catholic teaching). NFP is NOT the problem here. I’m not even sure this topic is appropriate for this forum. Wow.

They’re facing issues in their marriage that are tempting them to give up on NFP. Its like their marriage is a table with four legs and contraceptives seem like something to balance the table on to substitute as a leg.

 

[twoangels]

OP, my husband and I work opposite shifts. I work 4 days a week and on those days I only get to see my husband for 2 hours. It definitely complicates NFP. We’ve had other factors that have limited us in the intimacy department as well. My husband is a devout Catholic, but at times the strain on him has made him angry with the Church’s teaching. However, it has always boiled down to focusing us in on what our marriage needs.

As I said i the last post, the situation you’re in is like havig a 3 legged table. You feel impoverished of table legs. Meanwhile these contraceptives are like noticing something you can lean that legless end of the table on to give the table some extra support. It can be frustrating when you’re told you can’t use it.

But this is ultimately how NFP has the potential for building stronger marriages. It challenges you to actually fix your table.

Here is my two cents. You first describe your life as very stressful. You then say that lack of sex makes you irritable. Wouldn’t it be that sex releaves stress and you aren’t able to use sex as a stress reliever as much as you’d like, and thus you’re irritable? You need to work on balancing work with family. Pray to God to help you find that route. Granted, a friend of mine told me that every time she prays to God because she feels like her plate is overflowing, God seems to just give her a bigger plate.

You also need to decipher between the feelings associated with not havig sex, and the feelings with being sexually rejected. You need to address the sexual rejection with your wife and distinguish that from nagging to have sex. Its not just that you want sex. Its that you want her to value the fact that you want sex with her and you want to feel desired by her. When you feel your sexual desires are appreciated and reciporcated, abstainence becomes a bit easier.

You ultimately have to work toward making mutual sacrifice out of love rather than regularly rejection of the other’s sexual love for you.

 

[HouseArrest]

Maybe you should introduce the idea of using only Phase 3. She will be able to take her time, without worry, in learning how to chart to where she feels comfortable and confident. She’ll also feel that you are committed to NFP and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it right.

Yes, this sacrifice will fall on you. Hopefully it won’t last long!

 

[dailey]

[QUO*TE=HusbandAndWife;9195795]

I feel closer to her through sex and not a whole lot else.

I have shown her this post because I do not want to put this out there without her permission.
S

Man, are you sure you want to show this to your wife? That doesn’t sound too good, you know.

At any rate, I actually can relate to your wife. I was very anxious when my husband and I switched from ABC to NFP. I probably told him one or two times that I would “kill him” if I got pregnant. I’m sure you would rather have a wife who is relaxed and at peace then one that is stressed out and frazzled all because of a few more sexual encounters a month.

 

[etmom]

OP, please, please, PLEASE get yourself and your wife into counseling. Hopefully you can find a counselor who respects Catholic beliefs about NFP (since I know Catholic counselors aren’t available to everyone and not all are faithful to Catholic teaching). NFP is NOT the problem here. I’m not even sure this topic is appropriate for this forum. Wow.

I think this is a bit of an overreaction. The wife has had extremely difficult pregnancies, including one that left her on bedrest/in a wheelchair for over 2 months. They have 4 very young children and are experiencing financial and physical stress. That is very traumatizing. Her reaction to another immediate pregnancy is not necessarily irrational. I had very similiar feelings after my infant son died last year, it did not mean I was crazy or needed intensive counseling, it meant I needed time, prayer and support to work through my grief and the death of my son. And using very conservative, phase III only allowed me AND my husband to regain our confidence with the method and gave us great peace of mind since we also had life threatening reasons to avoid in addition to processing our son’s unexpected death.

I’d recommend the wife keep in close touch with her NFP instructor for chart review (to ensure she has correct interpretation) for the next few months and use only phase III. I would email my charts to my instructor, who was very helpful and understanding. If she still has the overwhelming fear of pregnancy, then perhaps it might be time to seek additional support - carefully, because most secular counselors will just advise her to use ABC.

 

[heart4home]

OP, I can understand that you get irritable without sex, and that this is very trying for you. However, it seems that your wife has had some own trials of her own and you must have had to go without sex for long periods during those trials and in the postpartum etc. You will survive this act of mercy towards her…

Yes, it is a balancing act for sure to keep your marriage healthy and your sexual needs take care of, but I also think you will need to give a bit more of yourself from the heart and accept that sex is not the be all and end all of life.

Sex is good, nobody is denying it isn’t, but so is having a sane wife that isn’t stressed and feeling the pressure of accepting an unwanted pregnancy just so you can satisfy yourself and not be irritable.

Also as somebody who has become pregnant two times by having sex 6 days before ovulation, I don’t blame your wife for being really cautious there if she doesn’t want to conceive.

Honestly, you need a really good instructor to review your wife’s charts and then you need to accept that you either have to gain some self control and only have sex in phase 3 to give your wife some peace, or accept she is going to be frustrated towards you, because that is mentally where she is at right now.

You say you are broke, your wife will be miserable if she has to go through another terrible pregnancy and yet you think she’s being unreasonable for doing what she needs to avoid pregnancy?

For those saying the wife needs counseling. I don’t think so. I think her fears and reactions are understandable at this point. As a mom to a family that is twice the size of yours I will still sympathize with her and say that 4 kids in 7 years is a lot. Our first 4 were born within 6 years and honestly, it was a very stressful time. Wonderful but still stressful. 4 littles to feed, dress, entertain and take care of when they seem to constantly be sick etc.

Give her time to breathe. Maybe in a year or so she’ll not be quite as crazy about the thought of a surprise and more willing to have sex before ovulation, but for now you need to respect her and help her keep her sanity.

 

[The_Bucket]

Honestly, you need a really good instructor to review your wife’s charts and then you need to accept that you either have to gain some self control and only have sex in phase 3 to give your wife some peace, or accept she is going to be frustrated towards you, because that is mentally where she is at right now.

Agreed with a lot in this post but just took this part out here to make a big note. Phase III is 99% effective. It doesn’t get more effective than that no matter what. With fairly regular cycles you folks should be able to figure this one out in just a few months. And fertile women typically have a 11-16 day luteal cycle that doesn’t change by more than a day or so. So if you take out the “count three” days, the worst you’re looking at is eight days of 99% effectiveness. Probably more than that. Let’s say ten.

Is ten days on and 18 days off ideal? No. But it’s probably a pretty good compromise for now.

 

[MomaMary8]

Hi,

It seems like with her pregnancies it’s always SOMETHING. Luckily nothing life threatening, but just 9 months of anxiety, misery and sickness. Our babies have been tough. Tough to nurse, fussy sleepers. Great kids overall but I’m sure you know how draining parenting little kids is. My wife says she’s had it.

yep! It is always something!! I say this with humor, but I am not trying to minimize your wife’s difficulty. I have been pregnant 11 times, I have 10 children to hug and one in heaven to pray for us. I think the 1st pregnancy had no issues… I won’t go into my medical history, but yes, it always is something and your wife is right to expect something to happen again with another pregnancy.

I work long hours and when I come home she’s standing there ready to give me all the kids and lock herself upstairs with a glass of wine and a magazine for an hour.

Then I suggest that you take the time before coming home to pick up a bottle of her favorite wine, her favorite magazines or a best selling book, and grab the kids and take them out to McDonald’s for an hour or two! Do this often! And when you can’t, send her flowers from work or pick up a rose or daisy to give her when you get home.

I don’t really want any more kids either. Of course we’d love anyone who came to our family - but we feel like we’re at our max.

God is funny like that. Just when we think we can’t take anymore, He shows us we can. I remember crying over my son when he was 3 weeks old, just rubbing his little head. I was told he might have a brain tumor and all I had the strength for was to give my son to God. After I was able to do that, I was able to go on and be mom to the other 7 kids and not let them see my terror. God gave me the strength, but only after I gave Him my will. (He ended up being just fine and is a little wrecking machine now!)

I won’t address NFP, but rather your spirituality, NFP is a gift from God so that couples may still join with each other to experience His love when there is a need to avoid pregnancy. I suggest you take a month or two off of and focus on praying with each other. Take the troubles before the sacrament and let Jesus give you an answer to your troubles. You should not be feeling distant from your wife, just because you can’t have sex. When this begins to happen, take the time to say an extra prayer for your wife. She too must pray for you! This is a struggle that both of you have to work together to get through. I know the stress your wife is having. I had one delivery that left me with “flash backs” it was so terrible. The entire next pregnancy, I had to constantly pray to God for peace and trust that the pregnancy would have a different issue. Pray to St Simon to help you both to carry your cross. you are living the sweetness of Our Lord’s cross, so pray to him to help you carry it.

 

[Em_in_FL]

If NFP is something that you guys are committed to then she needs to see a doctor now so that she can be reassured about the odds of getting pregnant during her infertile times.

You guys also need to see a counselor. Now. This is bad for your marriage and you need more help than can be provided on the internet.

THIS!

Okay, everyone, before you post detailed descriptions of your favorite method of NFP. I think it’s obvious that this is NOT a technical question about NFP. ** It is about a woman who has an extreme, bordering on irrational, fear of pregnancy. It is NOT NORMAL for any woman to take multiple pregnancy tests a month and to push away her DH during the act out of a fear of pregnancy. **

OP, please, please, PLEASE get yourself and your wife into counseling. Hopefully you can find a counselor who respects Catholic beliefs about NFP (since I know Catholic counselors aren’t available to everyone and not all are faithful to Catholic teaching). NFP is NOT the problem here. I’m not even sure this topic is appropriate for this forum. Wow.

… and THIS!!!

This isn’t a problem with NFP. This is a fear that requires counseling.

 

[sdeco]

I disagree with Em_in_Fl and ToeIntheWater. Given what they’ve been through, I think her fear is completely rational. I would be absolutely terrified of pregnancy in that situation.

That said, that doesn’t give her the right to say she’ll “kill him” if he “gets her pregnant.” She’s having sex, too! It’s not entirely “his fault.” That’s the problem, not the fear itself. She needs validation that her fear is completely justified, BUT she needs to realize it doesn’t give her the right to lash out.

I think they need to use NFP in a more conservative way. She needs to have complete confidence in the method. Telling her her fear is “irrational” will only make it worse.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I disagree with Em_in_Fl and ToeIntheWater. Given what they’ve been through, I think her fear is completely rational.** I would be absolutely terrified of pregnancy in that situation.
**
That said, that doesn’t give her the right to say she’ll “kill him” if he “gets her pregnant.” She’s having sex, too! It’s not entirely “his fault.” That’s the problem, not the fear itself. She needs validation that her fear is completely justified, BUT she needs to realize it doesn’t give her the right to lash out.

I think they need to use NFP in a more conservative way. She needs to have complete confidence in the method. Telling her her fear is “irrational” will only make it worse.

Well, I’m practically IN that situation (using NFP after 4 kids and my husband is laid off and I work full time and our house is built for a family half our size)… thankyouverymuch…

But the issue she has is not that NFP doesn’t work. The couple already is using NFP in an overly-conservative way and they’re not happy with that. They won’t ever be happy until the underlying fears (and maybe the surrounding family logistics) are all worked out.

 

[heart4home]

Well, I’m practically IN that situation (using NFP after 4 kids and my husband is laid off and I work full time and our house is built for a family half our size)… thankyouverymuch…

But the issue she has is not that NFP doesn’t work. The couple already is using NFP in an overly-conservative way and they’re not happy with that. They won’t ever be happy until the underlying fears (and maybe the surrounding family logistics) are all worked out.

I don’t pretend to know all the specifics of your pregnancies, but the fear for this woman is that she does not want to be pregnant again, at least not now. While your situation is difficult as well, that doesn’t mean your situations are really similar because they involve totally different people, children, and reasons for wishing to avoid.

Avoiding sex 5 days before ovulation is not really that conservative. I’d consider it moderate at best. As I mentioned in a previous post I have become pregnant twice by having sex 6 days before ovulation. My situation is not that unique, so the wife is certainly justified in wanting to avoid 5 days before and up to 5 days after to be extra conservative.

The only likely way for this woman to be able to let go of the underlying fear is for her not be pressured to have sex outside of the conservative window of late phase 3, or for her to suddenly not care about becoming pregnant again which as I previously mentioned is much more likely to occur with the passing of some time.

Since you are in the same position you must realize that having 4 young children is very hard work. Perhaps your cycles are much more regular, perhaps you have been using NFP longer, or perhaps you are just more accepting of God’s will to give you another child if that’s what happens, but I don’t think we should judge this woman’s need for therapy when all we’ve heard is the opinion of her husband who feels having sex only 2-3 times a month leaves him deprived and irritable.

I’m gathering that staying home with 4 young children all day, while being pressured to face the fear of another pregnancy that could again land her on bed rest while also trying to care for those children, etc. leaves this mother irritable as well.

As I mentioned I had 4 in 6 years and now have more than double that, and I welcomed each of them with open arms, but we are all in different places and there were certainly times I felt overwhelmed by all the responsibility and am glad that my husband respected my limits as to what I could handle and when, even if it meant at times only have sex a couple of times a month.

 

[etmom]

Well, I’m practically IN that situation (using NFP after 4 kids and my husband is laid off and I work full time and our house is built for a family half our size)… thankyouverymuch…

But the issue she has is not that NFP doesn’t work.**** The couple already is using NFP in an overly-conservative way ****and they’re not happy with that. They won’t ever be happy until the underlying fears (and maybe the surrounding family logistics) are all worked out.

Disagree. Abstaining only 5 days prior to ovulation is NOT overly conservative. I conceived 2 pregnancies at 6 days prior, so have others I know. For peace of mind, phase 3 only is as good as it gets, 99%+ effectiveness