Disagree totally, and your saying this is just NFP-speak, for the lack of a better term.
Post #50 mentions this. I’ve tried internet searching when I saw this the first time in another thread a long time ago, but have not found anything. Am very curious.
Again, you can have sex even if you feel that you have a serious/just reason to avoid pregnancy. It’s called periodic continence or NFP. You just have to be preparing yourself to LOVINGLY accept any child you might have. Oh, and “I don’t want kids” is not a good reason to avoid pregnancy. That is a selfish desire that needs to be worked on through the aid of a good spiritual director, staying close to the sacraments, and lots of prayer.
Well, I disagree with you, and I have 2000 years of Church teaching and history to back me up. The Church says, be fruitful and multiply…and if for a just/grave/serious reason you can’t, then abstain totally or periodically depending on your circumstances. YOU have the choice. No one is standing at your door making sure you are making moral choices.
Anyone who is living in a state of mortal sin by using contraception with full knowledge and intention has cut themselves off from a life of God’s Grace.
You could also work towards accepting children lovingly as God sends them. No one is REQUIRED to abstain or use NFP.
@Searching
Also, no. The Church says we are to live our lives at the intersection of faith and reason.
Exactly and while there are limits to how far our reason can take us because our reason is subject to our knowledge, our faith has not stops. For example the theory of relativity may be on the ropes now considering the possible find of a new particle that travels faster than light. Are you going to subject your decisions to knowledge that is based on whatever the newest fad theory is or are you going to base your decisions on the eternal Truth.
I am not sure how attraction has anything to do with it. I mean those who use contraception probably feel like they ARE giving themselves totally to each other. Its not like they are actively saying you know I am going to have sex with you but going to withhold a part of myself just because I donlt find you attractive enough! Also I think it is mighty what is the word I am looking for presumptous to assume that everyone who uses contraception doesn;t have a contemplative prayer life. There are plenty of strong Christian who use contraception and are very devoted.
Alright I will accept the possibility that someone who didn’t know it was wrong or was using it against their will could still have a contemplative prayer life. As was stated before though. If your in a state of mortal sin you cannot have a contemplative prayer life since you have effectively removed yourself from God’s grace of your own free will. Thus in all seriousness a way to test this would be to find someone who you could prove they had a contemplative prayer life that was using contraception knowing it was wrong and doing it freely.
Maybe I am naive or maybe my marriage works differently from yours, but the strengths and weaknesses of my marriage have nothing to do with sex. They have to do with personal selfishness or selflessness. And those things aren’t fixed by sex.
Nothing is “fixed” by sex. And marriage isn’t all about SEX either–but it’s an important component that for some people, it’s easy to say “suck it up and live without”, while for others, it’s like missing an appendage. And naivity would be thinking all marriages work alike–they don’t. Ever. They’re like snow flakes–no two are alike. I strongly advise people to NEVER compare their marriages to that of their neighbors, their friends, etc.–favorably or unfavorably. Nothing good ever comes from that.
Also, how much of the way our brains work is influenced by culture, time, and modern thinking? I would venture to say a lot. Which is why most people who claim to be ‘using their brains’ seem to think that sex is necessary and children shouldn’t be a part of it.
***I don’t think modern culture has anything to do with this issue when it comes out how our brains think about sex. I think this has been a question faithful people have asked for years (yes, believe it or not, faithful people throughout history have questioned what the church teaches and change has come from it–whether some people agree with it or not.) And yes, some couples should be looking inside their hearts and asking–“why aren’t we welcoming children as we should,” for others, adding to their family would be an irresponsible decision. Oooh. I know… I’m going to get FLAMED for that. But let me tell you something. . .for all the couples who are being selfish in NOT having children, there are couples that continue to get pregnant when common sense would say is time to stop. Having more children than you can provide for responsibly both physically and responsibly, is irresponsible. Willingly getting pregnant when you know, before you get pregnant, that you could have life threatening complications that put both you and your unborn child at risk–also irresponsible. Why do we not discuss those considerations? The second one is especially relevant to a number of women as we get older. Looking at your marker, you’re not at that point yet. But when you are…give us a call./***QUOTE]
kristacecilia;8414212:
Also, how much of the way our brains work is influenced by culture, time, and modern thinking? I would venture to say a lot. Which is why most people who claim to be ‘using their brains’ seem to think that sex is necessary and children shouldn’t be a part of it.
***I don’t think modern culture has anything to do with this issue when it comes out how our brains think about sex. I think this has been a question faithful people have asked for years (yes, believe it or not, faithful people throughout history have questioned what the church teaches and change has come from it–whether some people agree with it or not.) And yes, some couples should be looking inside their hearts and asking–“why aren’t we welcoming children as we should,” for others, adding to their family would be an irresponsible decision. Oooh. I know… I’m going to get FLAMED for that. But let me tell you something. . .for all the couples who are being selfish in NOT having children, there are couples that continue to get pregnant when common sense would say is time to stop. Having more children than you can provide for responsibly both physically and responsibly, is irresponsible. Willingly getting pregnant when you know, before you get pregnant, that you could have life threatening complications that put both you and your unborn child at risk–also irresponsible. Why do we not discuss those considerations? The second one is especially relevant to a number of women as we get older. Looking at your marker, you’re not at that point yet. But when you are…give us a call.
For some people not stealing is harder for them than it is for others because of their temperament/personality. It seems to me you are for giving people a pass because their temperament/personality makes it harder for them to follow than some other person. I see a downward slope using this argument. Will we have to write different rule sets for the 4 different temperaments?
QUOTE]The second one is especially relevant to a number of women as we get older. Looking at your marker, you’re not at that point yet. But when you are…give us a call.
Cool beans - thanks!
Also note: I feel your pain if your one of them haha.Not to mention that deliberately bringing back fertility can be harmful to a child’s health. There’s a reason that ecological breastfeeding delays fertility!
But neither of us feel “left out” because of it and I think that’s the important thing.We just have to agree to disagree.