You are exactly right and it is the point of every argument I’ve had with HD. The ‘contraceptive mentality’ does not arise from these general circumstances or intentions that may or may not reach the level of sinfulness . It arises from the sin of lust. The act of will prompted by the desire to have consequence free sex.
Well we can split words but I would probably agree with you that it is not the “sin” of contraception but it sure can be a sin.
It’s not just a splitting of words. One thing is intrinsically evil, an offense against God and nature and gravely devoid of charity. The other is to do with a persons relationship with God and himself relative to many, many different circumstances. How about this. I assume you not only have a roof over your head and a car but have some luxuries besides. That’s more than the starving woman in Africa, so why should you have those things instead of sending your spare dollars to someone who hasn’t even enough food? How selfish. Do you see how that works. Do I have a right to judge you that way. NO.Well we can split words but I would probably agree with you that it is not the “sin” of contraception but it sure can be a sin.
One can sin by not acting. Such would be a sin of omission, which is the failure to do something one can and ought to do.
A lot of times you assign ideas to me that I do not hold.
Which is not incompatible with what I said about the nature of sin that might be occurring. But to not have sex will not be intrinsically evil (whereas contraception is intrinsically evil). There may be a bad intention motivating that choice, which serves to identify an immorality.
No, but one does have a right and even an obligation to point out that God himself says to clothe the naked and feed the hungry. And what we do to those we do to Him. So in a way God will judge us on the exact thing you cite. And we owe it to not only ourselves but also the Church and it’s members to preach that, because that is what God commanded. So, perhaps we should give more. And perhaps the sin of greed will keep many first world people out of heaven. But we do not ignore the fact that we are not generous enough with our monies and blessings all the time. We repent, and we are called to help. Now, you may certainly find someone closer to help than Africa. Perhaps a single mother down the street. But yes, we are rich compared to historical and geographical standards. And the rich are asked a lot of. And are condemned quite handily by God Himself. And if hearing that makes one sad, then we are like the Rich man who heard he had to get rid of his TV… wait, Riches…
I said exactly that. But it is neither contraception, nor an intrinsic evil.
Yes, definitely.
Right.
I don’t disagree with your overall message, but I do want to point out that how many kids other ppl have and their motives behind it is really none of our business. We don’t pay their bills, and we don’t know what goes on behind the closed doors of their homes. Of course, if they were to ask us what Church teaching was on the matter, we should say that Church teaching is that we can only avoid pregnancy for just reasons, and not for selfish ones. But it isn’t our place to look at a family, see how much they make, and decide that they’re probably being selfish for not having more.
Many people seem to see that. Yet I agree with your entire statement.
Hearing gospel truths certainly doesn’t make me sad. However having a criterior set before me based on some individuals opinion of what selfish is is not gospel truth. A person in a Cali type economy earning 50K and desiring to send their 2 or 3 kids to University is none of your business. I’ll tell you just how selfish I am based on your criterior. I only had 4 children (one in heaven doesn’t count based on financial cultural circumstances). My husband is a professional. We have a house and a car and some of the usual luxuries. We’ve done NFP for 26 years. By your standards we are hellbound.
By the way I have casually watched your other threads going right now. Very interesting stuff. You have a good way of presenting some new questions on old subjects. I have enjoyed them.
It saddens me that this was your takeaway. I have apologized before if you have been offended and I have clarified that I have never judged you personally. I am sorry if we cannot continue.
You perhaps don’t realise that you’ve formed a judgement in your mind concerning the makeup of others families that isn’t gospel based or Church based. This is just my speculations but it occurs to me that for some reason you are needing to justify your own choices regarding rejecting NFP and coping with the prospect of the inevitably huge family you are going to have until your wife reaches menopause.
I dont think HD means to come off that way.
