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kage_ar
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The signs come when you are getting ready to ovulate. Then you wait til your fertile signs have been gone for a certain time period (depending on your type of NFP).
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tapiocapudding
Guest
errr threads like these frighten me a bit. After DS, DH and I practised a very lax ‘form’ of NFP which was mostly LAM with me monitoring CM for a change. The problem was, starting around oh 8 months PP or so I had constant prefertile (slightly stretchy) CM and so we didn’t really do much about that. Our goal was more spacing than avoiding anyways so when I did get pregnant 15 months PP it was just fine. However, I had to leave my job when we moved and now DH and I are well below the poverty line and struggling to feed our family. We have very serious reason to avoid after the next LO is born and I’d like to do so without having to resort to complete abstinence. I need to know there’s a method out there for me, and so far I can’t find one. I plan to trust in LAM for the first 6 months provided baby 2.0 doesn’t magically start sleeping through the nights early on. But after that, I just don’t know. I was monitoring my CM when we conceived this baby and I didn’t notice any change from the slightly stretchy CM I’d been having for months and months. That makes me very nervous!
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LynnNH
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Have you tried the sympto-thermal method? Are you on any medication? Sometimes meds can give you the mucus that seems like the fertile kind but really isn’t. You might want to study up on the sympto-thermal method and try that. It sort of backs up your mucus signs. I took my temperature every day for years, but am lucky enough to be pretty regular, so now just rely on the mucus.
Either way, I wish you all the best!
Lynn in NH
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little_flower_1
Guest
I have confusing mucus symptoms and rely primarily on checking my cervix to determine fertility.
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theAuthor
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Sm in FL, there is no sarcasm in my post. I mean what I said.
When we “went in”, we thought it was a natural method of contraception that was sold to us as having a similar efficacy as the contraceptive pill. NFP seemed to be a way of tricking nature.
My understanding now is that for someone becoming Catholic, it might take a huge paradigm shift, but a worthwhile one, and some sacrifices, and I’m OK with that. It may mean moving house, not keeping up with the Joneses fashion, car, house, appliance-wise. It could well mean that you will have a large family. I think it should be said like that going in. “You might end up with a big family if you live the Catholic way, but trust God to provide.” As an old 99 yo Nun told me, “They bring a loaf of bread with em, children do!”
And that’s my new understanding of it. It may well be God’s will for us to have a large family. I believe that turns into a blessing over time, even if it’s hard at first. As someone said above (can’t scroll up that far), they wish they’d risked and had more kids.
James, I loved your post. Thanks for taking me at face value. Absolutely true what you said about growing up sharing a bedroom. I don’t think that’s off-topic at all! That’s the point, you can do it if you want to. People make out like it’s an economic decision and it’s not necessarily so. We are still better off than our grandparents were, materially.
tapiocapudding, I really felt for you reading your post. Try to be resourceful. Lots of things can be had for free. I don’t know if you have councils in your area, but we have free libraries that lend DVD’s, CD’s, Bestseller books. There’s the local park, a swim at the council pool is cheap, etc, etc. I spent a lot of my younger life relatively poor and to be honest I don’t mind when we have to squeeze a bit, because the creativity of living cheaply is still there and I kind of enjoy it…but Lord don’t make me too poor! I mean you need clean, running water, blankets for winter, etc, but as long as you’re clean and fed…society is very materialistic and it’s nice to escape from that. Take care. I believe God will keep you fed. I mean that, and I have been that poor. I think of that Scripture “He feeds the birds of the air. How much more important are you than they?” when I get that poor…but hopefully I won’t be that poor again.
When we “went in”, we thought it was a natural method of contraception that was sold to us as having a similar efficacy as the contraceptive pill. NFP seemed to be a way of tricking nature.
My understanding now is that for someone becoming Catholic, it might take a huge paradigm shift, but a worthwhile one, and some sacrifices, and I’m OK with that. It may mean moving house, not keeping up with the Joneses fashion, car, house, appliance-wise. It could well mean that you will have a large family. I think it should be said like that going in. “You might end up with a big family if you live the Catholic way, but trust God to provide.” As an old 99 yo Nun told me, “They bring a loaf of bread with em, children do!”
And that’s my new understanding of it. It may well be God’s will for us to have a large family. I believe that turns into a blessing over time, even if it’s hard at first. As someone said above (can’t scroll up that far), they wish they’d risked and had more kids.
James, I loved your post. Thanks for taking me at face value. Absolutely true what you said about growing up sharing a bedroom. I don’t think that’s off-topic at all! That’s the point, you can do it if you want to. People make out like it’s an economic decision and it’s not necessarily so. We are still better off than our grandparents were, materially.
tapiocapudding, I really felt for you reading your post. Try to be resourceful. Lots of things can be had for free. I don’t know if you have councils in your area, but we have free libraries that lend DVD’s, CD’s, Bestseller books. There’s the local park, a swim at the council pool is cheap, etc, etc. I spent a lot of my younger life relatively poor and to be honest I don’t mind when we have to squeeze a bit, because the creativity of living cheaply is still there and I kind of enjoy it…but Lord don’t make me too poor! I mean you need clean, running water, blankets for winter, etc, but as long as you’re clean and fed…society is very materialistic and it’s nice to escape from that. Take care. I believe God will keep you fed. I mean that, and I have been that poor. I think of that Scripture “He feeds the birds of the air. How much more important are you than they?” when I get that poor…but hopefully I won’t be that poor again.
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HouseArrest
Guest
BS detector! HA HA HA! Love it! That’s a great description!There is a big difference between the method “not working” and the couple deciding to “go for it.” This is, in fact, a symptom of why NFP is acceptable and contraception is morally wrong in the first place! Contraception simply divorces sex from babies. NFP doesn’t. If your need to avoid is serious, you have a tough sacrifice to make several days a month - typically the most potentially fun days! This has a way of acting like a BS detector on the allegedly “serious” reason for avoiding.
You don’t indicate if you “cheated” and then got pregnant or if the method itself failed to identify the fertile times. But in your case, it sounds like maybe you just had a “what the heck” baby instead of a planned one. I have one of those myself! No regrets. In any case, that is a very different thing from an “oops” baby…
For us, NFP does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do: 2 planned babies, 1 “what the heck” baby and 0 “oops” babies. 10 years using it, so far.
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MercyMia
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TapiocaPudding - Not to go too far off topic…but is there a known medical reason for your change in cm? Just curious, because that is what I mostly rely on and that would be very frustrating for me too. Is there a known cause for what you are having?
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Em_in_FL
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My apologies - I misread your post as (another) complaint against using NFP from someone who is looking for justification to use artificial contraception - there are several conversations along those lines.
Maybe you once fell in that category - but I’m glad to hear of your conversion of heart!
I think some of your original misunderstanding should be blamed on how NFP is discussed and taught. Obviously you didn’t get the correct interpretation of what NFP is about originally, but came to that conclusion on your own later… so something needs to change in how NFP is presented to Catholics.
I do disagree, though, that it “doesn’t work as advertised”… it certainly CAN if used properly - and there are justified uses to even use it permanently (serious medical issues, etc)… and that CAN be done successfully. It’s a GIFT that we have this option - so that couples that are faces with TREMENDOUS burdens in their lives can still share their marital embrace completely!
God bless!
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Em_in_FL
Guest
I was going to mention this option too…
Along with:
YES!!! The cervical position sign was VITAL to me understanding my postpartum fertility (which I detected successfully 3 times while breastfeeding!)… the temperature sign was a wonderful secondary cross-check sign… verified what my other 2 signs were telling me.
The CM sign was ALWAYS confusing during the postpartum months - I really don’t know how a mucous-only method user would be successful then - but that’s just my opinion from my experience using sympto-thermal…
Good luck to you tapiocapudding - PM me if you want any extra info - I’d love to help out! NFP is one of my favorite topics to help people with!
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theAuthor
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It wasn’t like nobody told us that a large family wasn’t to be expected. One of our RCIA sponsors told us it was God’s will for us to have about six children. “The older ones can help you with the younger ones,” she said, and she was right. At the same time, my mother who is one of 13 kids was in my other ear saying if you have such a large family the kids feel unloved because the parents are spread too thin, their siblings raised them and the discipline was fierce (the ironing cord and welts).
Unfortunately, after our youngest baby I had a vaesectomy. My wife says that there was no way she could handle more kids. I had emotional problems. I’m not trying to justify that, it’s just my story. I have not been to reconciliation nor recieved Communion since. I feel cut off from God and the Church because of that:blush:. It seems like the worst sin a Catholic can commit. I’m too embarrased to ask about it in our parish.
In hindsight, I could have handled things differently. I took things into my own hands and failed to trust God to provide. I could have rearranged life so that we moved closer to the grandparents. Might even have been happier.
That’s what I’m trying to say. I would not recommend NFP as a method of “birth control” but rather would recommend making arrangements to accomoodate a large family instead if that’s God’s will. What’s more for me, it would have been cool to have more sons. It was probably God’s will for me to have more sons. That was probably a Blessing God had in store for me that I ruined. Lots of kids to visit you when you get old is a blessing too. I don’t care of that sounds selfish. I’ve seen it be a blessing to others.
I guess the lesson **that I learned too late **is that it’s pretty much God’s will that a husband and wife will be attracted to each other, and nature should take its course. It’s not a pleasant feeling to feel like you’re outside of God’s will big-time, which is where I am at now. I feel guilty for the life of the next child we won’t have. I don’t know whether to consider reversal or not, but I definitely will realise now that “open to life” means, “you may have a large family.” I should have learned to be OK with that. That’s my point.
Unfortunately, after our youngest baby I had a vaesectomy. My wife says that there was no way she could handle more kids. I had emotional problems. I’m not trying to justify that, it’s just my story. I have not been to reconciliation nor recieved Communion since. I feel cut off from God and the Church because of that:blush:. It seems like the worst sin a Catholic can commit. I’m too embarrased to ask about it in our parish.
In hindsight, I could have handled things differently. I took things into my own hands and failed to trust God to provide. I could have rearranged life so that we moved closer to the grandparents. Might even have been happier.
That’s what I’m trying to say. I would not recommend NFP as a method of “birth control” but rather would recommend making arrangements to accomoodate a large family instead if that’s God’s will. What’s more for me, it would have been cool to have more sons. It was probably God’s will for me to have more sons. That was probably a Blessing God had in store for me that I ruined. Lots of kids to visit you when you get old is a blessing too. I don’t care of that sounds selfish. I’ve seen it be a blessing to others.
I guess the lesson **that I learned too late **is that it’s pretty much God’s will that a husband and wife will be attracted to each other, and nature should take its course. It’s not a pleasant feeling to feel like you’re outside of God’s will big-time, which is where I am at now. I feel guilty for the life of the next child we won’t have. I don’t know whether to consider reversal or not, but I definitely will realise now that “open to life” means, “you may have a large family.” I should have learned to be OK with that. That’s my point.
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HouseArrest
Guest
Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon. It’s been recommended on here countless times. Changing what you eat can really have an effect on your “signs”. It helped me a lot. For awhile I was having constant signs, then none, and this really helped a lot.
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HouseArrest
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Why in the world did your RCIA sponsors think they knew how many kids God had in store for you? I find that odd that they would come up with a number?
Get to confession about the vasectomy. And from what I understand a reversal is not required, but it certainly is an option.
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theAuthor
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HouseArrest, six was the number of surviving children they had I think. It was suggested that was about a nice number of kids to have and that lady was very happy with her family. They are all grown up and a great source of pride, satisfaction and I suppose help, to her. Yes an exact number would be weird. She was giving us a ballpark figure. In our place in the world a normal number of kids would be two, three-ish is considered almost large, four kids will raise eyebrows or get sympathy. Five will arouse anger from those who feel they are supporting you in some way through tax even though the husband works, etc. Five or more is quite an odd-ball, you-must-be-Catholic or socially irresponsible kind of number.
In fact, that lady, she was the honest one. She said if nature takes its course, to plan for a large family and she was right.
I think there is danger in comparing though. I suspect that some couples that have more “success” with these methods might also just happen to be less fertile. I only need to smile at my wife and we’re expecting. Wish it was transferable to the unlucky couples who want to conceive and can’t.
tapiocapudding, this was my reason for the thread. You tried “a very lax ‘form’ of NFP” and it didn’t work as you’d hoped. No matter how complicated you make it, it all comes down to sperm meeting egg and what day you do it. Why would you expect it to “work” much better next time? Maybe you are just a fertile couple, like us. Depending on what you’re going through, abstinence may be your only real option until you’re sure there’ll be food in the fridge next week. By the time you find the “right” method, you could have ten kids! I’d trust your own track record with it and plan for absinence or even better, more kids. Two isn’t very many, and Baby 2.0 (lol) may just well sleep through from very early. Has happened before.
In fact, that lady, she was the honest one. She said if nature takes its course, to plan for a large family and she was right.
I think there is danger in comparing though. I suspect that some couples that have more “success” with these methods might also just happen to be less fertile. I only need to smile at my wife and we’re expecting. Wish it was transferable to the unlucky couples who want to conceive and can’t.
tapiocapudding, this was my reason for the thread. You tried “a very lax ‘form’ of NFP” and it didn’t work as you’d hoped. No matter how complicated you make it, it all comes down to sperm meeting egg and what day you do it. Why would you expect it to “work” much better next time? Maybe you are just a fertile couple, like us. Depending on what you’re going through, abstinence may be your only real option until you’re sure there’ll be food in the fridge next week. By the time you find the “right” method, you could have ten kids! I’d trust your own track record with it and plan for absinence or even better, more kids. Two isn’t very many, and Baby 2.0 (lol) may just well sleep through from very early. Has happened before.
Seems to me that a reversal at some stage would be a very moral act. To confess it and keep it like it is is a bit like a bank robber robbing a bank, confessing it but keeping the money. That’s how I feel about it anyway. I also feel in some ways not quite whole and “neutred” since having it done. Obviously if I can go to confession about it, it can be forgiven? Will go for sure. Thanks!
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HouseArrest
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Of course it can be forgiven. Really - go see your priest about it. Don’t keep yourself away from communion!HouseArrest, six was the number of surviving children they had I think. It was suggested that was about a nice number of kids to have and that lady was very happy with her family.
Okay that’s different - she was just telling you her experience, not trying to plan your family for you… makes sense now.
They are all grown up and a great source of pride, satisfaction and I suppose help, to her. Yes an exact number would be weird. She was giving us a ballpark figure. In our place in the world a normal number of kids would be two, three-ish is considered almost large, four kids will raise eyebrows or get sympathy. Five will arouse anger from those who feel they are supporting you in some way through tax even though the husband works, etc. Five or more is quite an odd-ball, you-must-be-Catholic or socially irresponsible kind of number.
***Yeah that’s our place in the world as well - but who cares? I get it all - sympathy, eyeballed, anger, etc. when I’m out and about with our seven… certainly that shouldn’t play into deciding the number that is right for us… there are so many areas where we Catholics are counter culture that this is nothing… wait until you have to pull your kids out of health class or try to get to Mass while on vacation with non Catholics…***In fact, that lady, she was the honest one. She said if nature takes its course, to plan for a large family and she was right.
I think there is danger in comparing though. I suspect that some couples that have more “success” with these methods might also just happen to be less fertile. I only need to smile at my wife and we’re expecting. Wish it was transferable to the unlucky couples who want to conceive and can’t.
***Some might, but some might not. I know we didn’t get serious about NFP until we were really ready to be done which is what I think happens most often. So for years we had a baby every 17 months, but magically we didn’t have one over the year my sister got married, and magically we have not had a baby in three years now… it’s not our fertility, it is what we’re doing with it. I would imagine for those with serious health issues during pregnancy fertility doesn’t matter much… still have to be conservative… ***
tapiocapudding, this was my reason for the thread. You tried “a very lax ‘form’ of NFP” and it didn’t work as you’d hoped. No matter how complicated you make it, it all comes down to sperm meeting egg and what day you do it. Why would you expect it to “work” much better next time? Maybe you are just a fertile couple, like us. Depending on what you’re going through, abstinence may be your only real option until you’re sure there’ll be food in the fridge next week. By the time you find the “right” method, you could have ten kids! I’d trust your own track record with it and plan for absinence or even better, more kids. Two isn’t very many, and Baby 2.0 (lol) may just well sleep through from very early. Has happened before.
Every baby isn’t necessarily a user failure… many people do use NFP successfully…
Seems to me that a reversal at some stage would be a very moral act. To confess it and keep it like it is is a bit like a bank robber robbing a bank, confessing it but keeping the money. That’s how I feel about it anyway. I also feel in some ways not quite whole and “neutred” since having it done. Obviously if I can go to confession about it, it can be forgiven? Will go for sure. Thanks!
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