NFP?

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Because the Pope has declared that the primary end of marriage is the procreation and education of children.
Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii (# 17), Dec. 31, 1930: “The primary end of marriage is the procreation and the education of children.”
and
“…the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children…”
Yes, but the second quote is saying that through Nature–children are expected to be created throught marital embrace (if you have sex, you can make babies). However, spiritually there is a unitive aspect that is just as important. This quote does NOT say that procreation is PRIMARY. I don’t know how you read it say such?? 🤷

As several posters (me included) have said earlier, primary and secondary don’t necessarily denote primacy of one over they other–they denote that there are 2 aspects to the purpose of matrimony (This is a silly example, but for instance I have 2 cookies, the first is a peanut butter and the second is chocolate chip–both are equally yummy and I’ve numbered them to show that I have 2 not that peanut butter is superior, I think that works as an example, but I’m sure some of you will shoot it down, lol, I’m okay with that)

The first quote lists the primary end as 2 things. Obviously you have to have children to educate them. But I wonder if it’s worded as primary and secondary because each aspect also has several aspects to it???
  1. Procreation and Education
  2. mutual help of spouses/avoid concupisence
    Just a thought. Also in Genisis, God creates Adam and then He creates Eve, so that Adam is not alone–then HE orders them to be fruitful and multiply. The FIRST action was for companionship and THEN procreation 🙂
Jennifer
 
Yes, but the second quote is saying that through Nature–children are expected to be created throught marital embrace (if you have sex, you can make babies). However, spiritually there is a unitive aspect that is just as important. This quote does NOT say that procreation is PRIMARY. I don’t know how you read it say such?? 🤷

As several posters (me included) have said earlier, primary and secondary don’t necessarily denote primacy of one over they other–they denote that there are 2 aspects to the purpose of matrimony (This is a silly example, but for instance I have 2 cookies, the first is a peanut butter and the second is chocolate chip–both are equally yummy and I’ve numbered them to show that I have 2 not that peanut butter is superior, I think that works as an example, but I’m sure some of you will shoot it down, lol, I’m okay with that)

The first quote lists the primary end as 2 things. Obviously you have to have children to educate them. But I wonder if it’s worded as primary and secondary because each aspect also has several aspects to it???
  1. Procreation and Education
  2. mutual help of spouses/avoid concupisence
    Just a thought. Also in Genisis, God creates Adam and then He creates Eve, so that Adam is not alone–then HE orders them to be fruitful and multiply. The FIRST action was for companionship and THEN procreation 🙂
Jennifer
Good post. This is still the teaching of the Church. Okay, so the cookie example doesn’t work too well, but hey, you tried!

Primary and secondary have to do with an ontological distinction relating to the natural and moral orders. Neither is more important than the other but one does come “before” therefore it is called primary. Primary does not mean MORE IMPORTANT, so let’s clear that up. Let’s look at it this way: It is possible to have a marital act that is solely procreative but NOT unitive. Such an act would be sinful as it is against the nature of marriage, but such an act IS possible. So, you can have an act that fulfills the “primary” end of marriage, but not the secondary. On the other hand, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a marital act that is not procreative (does not fulfill the primary end), but is still unitive (fulfilling the secondary end). A sexual act that is not procreative is also NEVER unitive, because in this sense, the secondary end REQUIRES the presence of the primary end. It cannot exist without it.

Primary End = Can exist without secondary end
Secondary End = Cannot exist without secondary end

This order of priority does not mean MORE IMPORTANT. BOTH ends must be present for the act to respect the dignity of the Sacrament of Marriage.
 
Observing the Natural Law
  1. The sexual activity, in which husband and wife are intimately and chastely united with one another, through which human life is transmitted, is, as the recent Council recalled, "noble and worthy.’’ (11) It does not, moreover, cease to be legitimate even when, for reasons independent of their will, it is foreseen to be infertile. For its natural adaptation to the expression and strengthening of the union of husband and wife is not thereby suppressed. The fact is, as experience shows, that new life is not the result of each and every act of sexual intercourse. God has wisely ordered laws of nature and the incidence of fertility in such a way that successive births are already naturally spaced through the inherent operation of these laws. The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. (12)
    NOW lets compare this to Casti Connubii. The MOST DIRECT reference would be none other than paragraph 59 (quoted multiple times already):
  2. Holy Church knows well that not infrequently one of the parties is sinned against rather than sinning, when for a grave cause he or she reluctantly allows the perversion of the right order. In such a case, there is no sin, provided that, mindful of the law of charity, he or she does not neglect to seek to dissuade and to deter the partner from sin. Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth. For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial rights there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider so long as they are subordinated to the primary end and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved.
    The same concept is shown in each quote. More from HV where Casti Connubii is quoted:
    Unlawful Birth Control Methods
  3. Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. (14) Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary. (15)
Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)
Perfectly in line with Casti Connubii.
I think you forgot to take your modernist medications or simply are hypoglycemic.

(i) Define : Natural Family Planning, infertile periods and infertility,
(ii) What is the purpose of Natural Family Planning?

(iii) Maybe you could be so kind, since your colleagues failed to do, as to show us where Castii Connubii discusses Natural Family Planning? The name NFP in itself is a misnomer. How is family planning Natural unless it is to procreate only?

(iiii) Challenge: Can one use NFP all their life and not have children?
(I know you will avoid this one?😉 )

(v) BTW, you must have missed the memo, your bus, or the post. Read it again, where does HV quote Casti Connubii? It does not. Hello, anybody there?

(vi) One would think a document as important to the modernist sect argument of NFP should at least get a little mention, right?.:confused:

*I do not disagree with Castii Connubii and nowhere in it does it discuss NFP. *

Read the other posts by myself and your brethren Sure, your a tad late or a slow reader, this has already been, covered, and Sure has yet to show me where NFP is discussed in Castii Connubii and why the fallible theologians took 40 years, that is correct, 4 decades to reinterpret a infallible document that was guided by the Holy Ghost in order to come up with something that was always practiced from the beginning and was so trivial. :hmmm:
Your modernist propaganda shall not prevail in these parts.

You jig is up Dude.

(vi) Concerning HV; is this the same author Paul VI who highlighted the non-infallible, non-definitive character of Vatican II , has yet to be nominated for sainthood, exiled Bugnini the Architect of the NO- mass, and Smoke of Satan Paul VI? just a little aside Question Dude;) )
 
Good post. This is still the teaching of the Church. Okay, so the cookie example doesn’t work too well, but hey, you tried!

Primary and secondary have to do with an ontological distinction relating to the natural and moral orders. Neither is more important than the other but one does come “before” therefore it is called primary. Primary does not mean MORE IMPORTANT, so let’s clear that up. Let’s look at it this way: It is possible to have a marital act that is solely procreative but NOT unitive. Such an act would be sinful as it is against the nature of marriage, but such an act IS possible. So, you can have an act that fulfills the “primary” end of marriage, but not the secondary. On the other hand, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a marital act that is not procreative (does not fulfill the primary end), but is still unitive (fulfilling the secondary end). A sexual act that is not procreative is also NEVER unitive, because in this sense, the secondary end REQUIRES the presence of the primary end. It cannot exist without it.

Primary End = Can exist without secondary end
Secondary End = Cannot exist without secondary end

This order of priority does not mean MORE IMPORTANT. BOTH ends must be present for the act to respect the dignity of the Sacrament of Marriage.
Thanks, great post as well–I knew the cookie thing was bad, but I was trying to think of an example and my poor brain was having trouble this morning! Sorry for the horrible example 🙂

Jennifer
 
Thanks, great post as well–I knew the cookie thing was bad, but I was trying to think of an example and my poor brain was having trouble this morning! Sorry for the horrible example 🙂

Jennifer
Oops…I just realized that I wrote the wrong word. It should have been:

Primary End = Can exist without Secondary End
Secondary End = Cannot exist without the Primary End
 
It is a sad thing to see Catholics disregarding the Supreme Teaching Authority of the Church.

The Beauty of our Catholic Faith is that through the Magisterium of the Church we can follow what the Church teaches as they faithfully transmit what God wants and permits.

So any discussion of ‘I think’ or ‘I feel’ when contrary to the the Teachings of our Faith are TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

NFP is a Church approved practice when followed obediently by the Church.
Excellent post. 👍

Another important point to remember: NFP does not guarantee the conception of or avoidance of pregnancy – you can still conceive (or not conceive) despite (or because of) your best efforts in timing things. That’s called God’s will. 😃
 
Excellent post. 👍

Another important point to remember: NFP does not guarantee the conception of or avoidance of pregnancy – you can still conceive (or not conceive) despite (or because of) your best efforts in timing things. That’s called God’s will. 😃
Exactly!
DH and I feel that is not currently prudent to get pregnant right now, but we desired to have relations with one another when I was fertile. We decided that if God gifts us a child, we will love it. We did not conceive, even though all the signs were there. It really kind of is the “luck of the draw”
 
Note:

This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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