Nidal Malik shouted "Allahu Akbar".

[Sam_777]

He said that and start implementing what Muhammed told him to do (and maybe thinking of the 72 virgins in paradise).

*(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”

(Quran 9:5):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

(Quran 9:29):
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”*

That guy was born in US, raised in US, even educated in US, however, I personally blame his Muslim clerics for brainwashing him by such verses above, and I also blame the secular world for their excess of freedom practices (e.g., public nudity, gay marriage, etc), I think both factors helped producing such a killer in the name of Allah. :dts:

Sources:
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6516570/Fort-Hood-shootings-the-meaning-of-Allahu-Akbar.html
youtube.com/watch?v=RZWuTSuw9Nw

 

[grandfather]

That guy was born in US, raised in US, even educated in US, however, I personally blame his Muslim clerics for brainwashing him by such verses above, and I also blame the secular world for their excess of freedom practices (e.g., public nudity, gay marriage, etc), I think both factors helped producing such a killer in the name of Allah. :dts:

]

Who do you blame for brainwashing the clerics? What do you think should be done about them? Do you think they have too much freedom?

 

[Sam_777]

Who do you blame for brainwashing the clerics?

Quran & Hadith.

What do you think should be done about them?

I think each Muslim Imam should hear God’s Word, maybe if there is a law that requires each Imam to have at least one hour a month meeting with a Christian Priest then maybe that would do something to their hearts and stop the brainwashing.

Do you think they have too much freedom?

If you want to restrict their freedom then you should also restrict the freedom of the secular world, for example create a law in the secular world that prohibits public nudity (from public ads, photos, etc) and on the other hand prohibit Islamic lessons in the Mosques (lessons should be only through authorized Islamic centres).

 

[wanner47]

First of all, those reports of what the shooter shouted are still, to my knowledge, unconfirmed. I wouldn’t take the reports as fact until they are confirmed as such.

Second of all, it’s not charitable to equate all Muslims with one man who may or may not have been a more “extremist” Muslim. There are whackjobs on all parts of the religious spectrum.

For example, if some whacked-out Catholic kills an abortionist, it’d be extremely unfair for society to immediately decide that all Catholics are violent and believe that abortionists must die. Just so, I do not judge all Muslims by the actions of one (and one who seems to be quite mentally ill by the sounds of things).

 

[amontoya]

First of all, those reports of what the shooter shouted are still, to my knowledge, unconfirmed. I wouldn’t take the reports as fact until they are confirmed as such.

Second of all, it’s not charitable to equate all Muslims with one man who may or may not have been a more “extremist” Muslim. There are whackjobs on all parts of the religious spectrum.

For example, if some whacked-out Catholic kills an abortionist, it’d be extremely unfair for society to immediately decide that all Catholics are violent and believe that abortionists must die. Just so, I do not judge all Muslims by the actions of one (and one who seems to be quite mentally ill by the sounds of things).

Society might be justified in that decision if dozens of Catholics all over the world were killing hundreds abortionists, and Catholic leaders were calling others to do the same in the name of Catholicism.

 

[Mark77]

Society might be justified in that decision if dozens of Catholics all over the world were killing hundreds abortionists, and Catholic leaders were calling others to do the same in the name of Catholicism.

Pray for the souls of these misguided people.

The Muslim leaders and Muslims around the world must stand up and denounce all violence and work for peace.

I have personally heard many misguided Muslims and their leaders demanding violence from their followers and death as a requirement for all infidels (non-believers).

While i hope these are a few misguided extremists, i have never once heard a Catholic or Christian clergy or lay person preach violence.

We must all live a life of love and compassion and pray for their peaceful conversion!

**"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you ."          (Mt 5:43-44), **

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[heathernoel]

I am waiting for the denunciation of this man’s actions from leaders in the Muslim community, but have found none. My guess is we shall not hear of it, either.

 

[heathernoel]

And I take a form of pleasure, which I know I need to pray about, in knowing this guy wasn’t killed. I hope he lives so that his martyrdom doesn’t come into fruition. Instead, I hope he is chastized for having failed in his murderous mission.

I know I need to pray.

 

[trdchubi]

Hasan’s Palestinian uncle said his nephew loved America and wanted to serve his country.

             Rafik Hamad, 64, told the Associated Press in the West Bank town of El-Bireh that Hasan had been harassed by other soldiers because of his Muslim faith but that he was not angry.

             "He really wasn't angry ..."

Really now?!

Oh yes he was a peaceful man…from a “peaceful” religion:shrug:

Taquiyya straight from the horses mouth.

 

[ICBCINTERGER2]

Quran & Hadith.http://www.*********.com/img/4713/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

 

[grandfather]

Quran & Hadith.

I think each Muslim Imam should hear God’s Word, maybe if there is a law that requires each Imam to have at least one hour a month meeting with a Christian Priest then maybe that would do something to their hearts and stop the brainwashing.

If you want to restrict their freedom then you should also restrict the freedom of the secular world, for example create a law in the secular world that prohibits public nudity (from public ads, photos, etc) and on the other hand prohibit Islamic lessons in the Mosques (lessons should be only through authorized Islamic centres).

This is interesting. On one hand we have a society that seems to preach violence, and there is another society that rejects its own religious underpinnings and allows and even encourages public displays of evil in the name of freedom.

 

[JaMc]

Quran & Hadith.

I think each Muslim Imam should hear God’s Word, maybe if there is a law that requires each Imam to have at least one hour a month meeting with a Christian Priest then maybe that would do something to their hearts and stop the brainwashing.

If you want to restrict their freedom then you should also restrict the freedom of the secular world, for example create a law in the secular world that prohibits public nudity (from public ads, photos, etc) and on the other hand prohibit Islamic lessons in the Mosques (lessons should be only through authorized Islamic centres).

(emphasis added).

Public nudity is already illegal. Unfortunately, they just don’t enforce it in certain localities at certain times. In the United States, anyway, such laws would be declared null and void as unconstitutional before the ink was even dry, if they even passed the legislature/Congress in the first place. No other Christian country that would pass such laws, even absent a constitutional prohibition, comes to mind, either. The only circles where such legislation would maybe even be discussed, let alone proposed would in the European “far right” movement, i.e., BNP, Front National, Freedom Party, etc., and they show no signs of gaining enough representation to get such policies to the floor in the near (or distant) future.

Bottom line: Ain’t gonna happen.

 

[TemplarKnight]

First of all, those reports of what the shooter shouted are still, to my knowledge, unconfirmed. I wouldn’t take the reports as fact until they are confirmed as such.

Second of all, it’s not charitable to equate all Muslims with one man who may or may not have been a more “extremist” Muslim. There are whackjobs on all parts of the religious spectrum.

For example, if some whacked-out Catholic kills an abortionist, it’d be extremely unfair for society to immediately decide that all Catholics are violent and believe that abortionists must die. Just so, I do not judge all Muslims by the actions of one (and one who seems to be quite mentally ill by the sounds of things).

You can deny it all you want. I am willing to stand behind the honorable men and women of our armed forces who I guarantee heard that phrase uttered. If you have ever fought in a combat zone you would know there are certain sense “triggers” that you will never forget the sound of regardless of the passing of time.

Certainly there are “whackjobs” on all parts of the religious spectrum however when we bring into account percentages, I doubt any will even come close by a long shot to islam. The last act of violence I was aware of on the part of a Buddhist monk was during a protest of the Viet Nam war when he set himself on fire.

And I like this.

For example, if some whacked-out Catholic kills an abortionist, it’d be extremely unfair for society to immediately decide that all Catholics are violent and believe that abortionists must die. Just so, I do not judge all Muslims by the actions of one (and one who seems to be quite mentally ill by the sounds of things).

You are absolutely right, it would be unfair to condemn all Catholics for the actions of one. And on the rare occasion a Catholic does commit an atrocity, it is just that; a rare occasion. You do not find countries dominated by Catholics where there is zero tolerance for others. You will not find entire Catholic countries where hate and eradication of an entire population, i.e. the Jews exists like it does in the middle east. For no where in the teaching of Christ does His word teach violence towards others. However, with islam, the world is FULL of radical extremists that are more than willing to commit unlimited atrocities in the name of their religion based on the words in their very own text. This act and mentality is not one isolated or rare incident, this is a growing trend of world wide jihad that will not end until you either submit or die. The forthcoming battle is inevitable.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\and I also blame the secular world for their excess of freedom practices (e.g., public nudity, gay marriage, etc), I think both factors helped producing such a killer in the name of Allah.\

**George Takei married his long-time companion under California secular law, therefore Major Nidal Hasan went on a shooting rampage.

is this what you are saying?

Major Hasan tried to give away his furniture the morning of the shooting, which is NOT the act of a man who thinks he’s going to be needing it later. It is clear that Major Hasan was a jihadist.

It does not follow from this act that all are jihadists, however.**

 

[Sam_777]

**George Takei married his long-time companion under California secular law, therefore Major Nidal Hasan went on a shooting rampage.

is this what you are saying?**

I say the clerics would use the excess of freedom to further charge Nidal, they would tell him that see how this secular world is corrupted, see this, and see that…,etc.

At least that what the clerics here in SA are telling us on TVs and at each Friday prayer.

So imagine Nidal Malik hearing all of that and turning around to see that all of what the clerics said is true, that definitely would help sharpen his Jihadist idea, but imagine that he turns around and see Nuns and Priests walking in the streets with their conservative clothes, I think he would have a second view of his Jihadist idea.

 

[trdchubi]

I say the clerics would use the excess of freedom to further charge Nidal, they would tell him that see how this secular world is corrupted, see this, and see that…,etc.

At least that what the clerics here in SA are telling us on TVs and at each Friday prayer.

So imagine Nidal Malik hearing all of that and turning around to see that all of what the clerics said is true, that definitely would help sharpen his Jihadist idea, but imagine that he turns around and see Nuns and Priests walking in the streets with their conservative clothes, I think he would have a second view of his Jihadist idea.

Stop blaming other people for your personal sins. If you sinned because you were tempted by their actions, you have to answer to God and not them. Don’t pass the buck. A second grader knows the values of what is right and what is wrong.

The problem is the muslims, specially this one, don’t know that. They don’t respect other people’s freedom.They just like to slap everybody else with their brand of religious practice. Killing the corrupted infidels—those liberated western people— is one their desirable virtue.

It seems tolerance is not one of their strong point.

 

[pnewton]

First of all, those reports of what the shooter shouted are still, to my knowledge, unconfirmed. I wouldn’t take the reports as fact until they are confirmed as such.

Second of all, it’s not charitable to equate all Muslims with one man who may or may not have been a more “extremist” Muslim. There are whackjobs on all parts of the religious spectrum.

I agree, as long as common sense would prevail from both sides. The terrorism aspect was dismissed way too quickly. People who knew nothing dismissed this possibility lest Muslim sensibilities be offended even though no evidence had come to light to justify eliminating this from consideration.

It is easy to just dismiss terrorism as acts of individuals. Then we can feel comfortable that a particular danger has passed. Personally, I won’t accept that Islam is a religion of peace until the death chants stop and the killing has been ended frrom the side of these supposedly peaceful Muslims.

 

[grandfather]

It seems tolerance is not one of their strong point.

Check the catechism on lists of virtues. I am almost sure you will not find tolerance named.

There are times when humans should be intolerant and there are things that should not be tolerated. In the west the pendelum has swung to where any behavior is tolerated in the name of freedom, or some other notion, that is also not a virtue, a good thing, but grossly misunderstood.

Mercy and tolerance are different and the notions we have of tolerance, the secularly derived false virtue, have their roots in an improper understanding of mercy.

If your “anything goes” all behaviors in public should be tolerated, deal with your own sins, view, is correct civilization will break down, as we see western civilization breaking down in our day. Killing those everyone who misbehaves may not be the right response, but there have to be societal controls on human behavior, as we each have to control our own behavior and wrestle with our fallen nature.

 

[grandfather]

Stop blaming other people for your personal sins. If you sinned because you were tempted by their actions, you have to answer to God and not them. Don’t pass the buck. A second grader knows the values of what is right and what is wrong.

The problem is the muslims, specially this one, don’t know that. They don’t respect other people’s freedom.They just like to slap everybody else with their brand of religious practice. Killing the corrupted infidels—those liberated western people— is one their desirable virtue.

It seems tolerance is not one of their strong point.

I don’t think Sam is blaming anyone for his personal sins or defending the things the imams are saying. He is explaining what is being said and what might have caused the shooter to behave as he did, not justifying it.

I think Islam is a false religion and in many ways evil. The imams are however, not entirely wrong. Western society is spun way out of control in the name of freedom. We have murdered many millions of innocent unborn. We can’t even figure out that men marry women. This is a holocaust, sanctioned by secular governments under the auspices of privacy or some other miscontrued misapplied notion, and proof of how confused we have become. God who is very patient will eventually tear down the evil house.

Killing everyone in the name of God is the wrong response, but evil is still evil. If you look at the visions presented in Revelations, God unleashes the four horseman of the apocalypse, because of man’s evil and refusal to repent. Is that tolerant?

 

[trdchubi]

I don’t think Sam is blaming anyone for his personal sins or defending the things the imams are saying. He is explaining what is being said and what might have caused the shooter to behave as he did, not justifying it.

Oh my bad… I was not really pertaining to Sam. I was relating my post to those religious muslims in general.
Sorry Sam I think you knew where I stand.

I think Islam is a false religion and in many ways evil. The imams are however, not entirely wrong.

Still that doesn’t make them right.

Western society is spun way out of control in the name of freedom. We have murdered many millions of innocent unborn. We can’t even figure out that men marry women. This is a holocaust, sanctioned by secular governments under the auspices of privacy or some other miscontrued misapplied notion, and proof of how confused we have become. God who is very patient will eventually tear down the evil house.

Let God be the judged of that. Lord have mercy on us.

Killing everyone in the name of God is the wrong response, but evil is still evil.

The Christians who believe in a tolerant God doesn’t go out punishing and scourging the unbelievers. In fact it is our religious duty to gently correct them.

 Never heard of a Christian shout ‘to God be the Glory’  and BOOM…

If the muslims seek respect…they should start giving them away now.

Is that tolerant?

You said it, God is very patient. He has the capacity to love and be kind unconditionally. The one who understands failure, suffering and frailty.