NIN released new album for free

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You know rock ‘n’ roll was designed to lead kids away from their parents and ultimately, God. I admit I hear it myself and probably the less well off or worse for it, but I would not say it’s great to listen to.
 
Rock was designed to take kids from God? That’s got to be the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard.
 
It’s not my fault you are spiritually blinded. Even the bubble-gum rock was designed for this. They’re rebellion anthems. One girl who left the church was a model Catholic before listening to U2 she said. Audiosancto dot org has a Lenten retreat talk for this year (part 1 or 2).
Wake up and smell the sulfur.
 
Nonsense! Rock music is simply a style of music, just like any other style of music. It was NOT invented to lead people from Christ, and that quite honestly sounds like paraniod conspiracy mongering to me. Music is defined by the content.

As for NIN this is probably not the best place to find fellow fans, maybe Phatmass?
 
I believe it’s the rhythms that do it. Rock originates from black areas of America, which originated from tribal beats used in guess what? The stuff of Psalms 95: witchcraft.
We can’t blame the black people for those sounds, but that’s what they were used for, originally. It got lost in time.
Art moves people. Some move people in very immodest ways. The way the Africans and African-Americans dance is, sorry to say, immodest, but no more immodest than pagan-style dancing of the West or any pre-Christian civilization. Being moved to move as such are the fruits of demonic entertainment. Gregorian chant is the most modest. Classical music is beautiful, but still too immodest for worship as it inspires the wrong sentiments, for lack of a better word, in people.

There’s a psychology of music that Satan, and those oppressed understand and the Christian world, and those misguided by the world, has forgotten. Rock stirs up the passions and it’s not for the passion of Christ.

Like I said, though, I can’t get it out of my system. It does not inspire godly thoughts and movements of the soul and is thus, disruptive to it. That makes it unhealthy. It’s nice if young people are fired up for the Pope and the Church but is it because it was made hip? Is it the lite version of rock? Is it yet another compromise with the way of the world? If the glitz was taken away and Catholics were put into camps, will there be any real substance in their souls when it’s not fun to be Catholic? I wonder.

There is no beauty in rock itself. God is the creator of beauty; not ugliness, and thus…well, you can guess. Sometimes Alice Cooper can feel like a good stress reducer, but I only feel comforted by beautiful, innocent-sounding sounds like JMT’s light stuff, Gregorian chant and Enya.
Well, I guess, being that she has some songs that would seem to be pagan like “Pax Deorum (I think the song is called, which is like “peace of the gods”)”, beauty can be deceptive, as used also by Satan (as he was beautiful as an angel and can fake it to deceive), but the point is that God creates beauty and not ugliness and so ugly sounds that move the base passions come from guess who?
It must be faced. This is why the stripping of beauty from our churches and from the designs for new ones was far more serious that should not be overlooked as being not a disaster in that it’s still tradition with a small “t” and not a heresy. The devil is smarter than us and finds loopholes. I think he found it with rock bands playing Mass music but Christian rock may, in itself, be a Satanic device and confusion for the soul at even papal visits.

Yeah, you guys can leave here if you don’t want to be challenged. You could think objectively, though.
 
foolishmortal said:
I believe it’s the rhythms that do it. Rock originates from black areas of America, which originated from tribal beats used in guess what? The stuff of Psalms 95: witchcraft.
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Do you have anything of substance to back up this claim? It is completely untenable for several reasons.

First, it claims that the “rhythm” of rock music came directly from the tribal beats, which I think you would be hardpressed to find any concrete documentation to support. Further, it assumes that these “tribal beats” are somehow inseparable from witchcraft, which you would be even less likely to find documentation to support.

Second, even if such a correlation could be proven, this does not ipso facto mean that rock music is evil. There are plenty of pagan images that the Church adopted and made her own, thereby giving them different meanings. Does that mean the Church now uses evil images? Of course not.

Third, it assumes that all rock music has the same rhythm (which is ridiculous) AND that such a rhythm is different from every other genre of music (which is equally ridiculous). If you ever listen to prog rock/metal (Rush, Marillion, old era Genesis, Dream Theater, etc.) you can readily hear that there is not the same rhythm used throughout one song, let alone an entire album or genre of music.

I’m sorry, but (with all due respect) this argument does not work.
 
kage_ar said:
Rock and Roll is of the DEBBIL I tell ya 😃

Some of us can rock out and love God…
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Don’t forget hip-hop! 😃

You want ‘black tribal beats’, don’t settle for less 😉
Anyway, I’m not really a fan of NIN’s brand of industrial/darkwave (I’m more into stuff like Throbbing Gristle and Project Pitchfork) but I really appreciate what Trent’s been doing lately even without listening to it.
 
Sorry for the language peoples 😦 I was really mad. But I’m not taking it out.

FoolishMortal, you truly are foolish, if not just plain stupid. First you say rock leads people away from God, and then you turn into a racist peice of ****. I’m a devout Christian (not entirely catholic, just Christian) and I listen to rock all the time. You know what else I listen to that doesn’t turn me away from God? Metal, heavy metal, hard rock, soft rock, rap and electronica. And another thing: I hate racists. Don’t come here spouting your racist ******** any more, prick.
Oh, did I just cuss? I’m sorry, it must be all the rock I’ve been listening to.
 
It’s kinda funny when you consider the term “rock n’ roll” used to be a euphemism for sex in the blues community.

An punk was something you didn’t want to become back in prison in the 50’s and 60’s.

An yes there is a tie to afro tribal rythms in most modern music because all modern music is an off-shoot of the R&B sounds of the 20’s - 40’s. The british invasion was nothing more than american R&B re-packaged and shipped back to us.
 
Yeah! That’s what I was getting to. Elvis Presley was one of the first if not the first. I wonder if there’s a difference between hoochie-coochie to hank-panky.

I was not being racist, but those beats, albeit different (as if blues musicians played the same beats), were used for African pagan practice. If it were not for Our Lady, the Mexicans might not have become Christian, much less Catholic, because of the grossly misbehaving Spanish lay-people; why then might the Africans have given up totally, their past religions or remnants of it like seductive dancing, though not a strictly African invention (BTW the whole thing about the Church Christianizing Pagan culture goes into a very risque area of reasoning–hinting to gods seducing virgins to make demigods, saints being like lesser gods, and angels being like fairies or some historical deconstructivist bull.
The West’s pagan influences have come into play in the new age also though, if they sing in Celtic or something, I have no idea what it means and it sounds innocent enough. There are melodic rhythms that can be seductive, such as certain flute melodies.

I forgot about the sexual slang that is “rock ‘n’ roll”!

It definitely should not be the sound played for liturgical music. Mass music is not supposed to be entertaining, nor is it to stimulate the base appetites and make you want to boogie-woogie, as the Mass is about Christ’s death and resurrection. I’m not good at explaining the supernatural character of it except that angels are all over unseen to us, bringing our petitions to God at the offertory.

Folk Rock like Simon and Garfunkel or Peter, Paul and Mary, when not having drug or sex references or innuendo, might be a different story in that they probably don’t stir up base passions.

This girl, who was into witchcraft, was a beautiful Catholic soul until the time she was listening to U2. It might be time to get unplugged and toss out the tambourine, man. When I say to be objective, I don’t mean to believe everything I say, but to not leave because you don’t like what you hear but finding phatmass as sympathetic ears would be the open-minded thing to do, according to how it’s usurped by the left.
 
FM, perhaps this is not how you intend to come off, but your posts in this thread are coming off as a little arrogant (“Wake up and smell the sulfur…”, “It’s not my fault you are spiritually blinded”, “You could think objectively”, etc.). You seem to be implying that those of us who do not think rock music is inherently satanic are somehow irrational and far inferior to your reasoned and objective intellect. It’s off-putting to say the least. If you sincerely believe what you say, you might want to try a different strategy if you hope to change anyone’s mind.
foolishmortal said:
BTW the whole thing about the Church Christianizing Pagan culture goes into a very risque area of reasoning–hinting to gods seducing virgins to make demigods, saints being like lesser gods, and angels being like fairies or some historical deconstructivist bull.
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Statements like this do nothing to address the points that I made but it simply dismisses them. The fact is, the Church does take those parts of cultures that are not contrary to the faith and utilizes them. There is no scandal in that. I’m not sure what that has to do with “gods seducing virgins”.

I thought my previous post raised three very good points. I did my best to do so in a logical, easy-to-follow manner. And yet, you did not address any of them. Why is that?
foolishmortal said:
I forgot about the sexual slang that is “rock ‘n’ roll”!
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Which, again, does not prove anything. Even if it did, would that mean heavy metal and rap are okay as those terms do not have the same origins?
foolishmortal said:
It definitely should not be the sound played for liturgical music. Mass music is not supposed to be entertaining, nor is it to stimulate the base appetites and make you want to boogie-woogie, as the Mass is about Christ’s death and resurrection.
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This is a definite red herring. No where on this thread is anyone advocating that rock music be played at Mass (in fact, I would agree that it should not be played at Mass). But simply because it is not appropriate for Mass does not automatically mean it is “from the devil.” That would be a very large leap in logic.
foolishmortal said:
Folk Rock like Simon and Garfunkel or Peter, Paul and Mary, when not having drug or sex references or innuendo, might be a different story in that they probably don’t stir up base passions.
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Right here you admit to the possibility that some rock might not be evil, which seems to suggest that you aren’t fully convinced of your own assertion.
foolishmortal said:
This girl, who was into witchcraft, was a beautiful Catholic soul until the time she was listening to U2.
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This generic example does nothing to prove your point. In fact, if anything, it only hurts your argument. Lots of people leave the Catholic Church for many different reasons. First, you have not provided us with nearly enough information to suggest that the reason she got into witchcraft was because of U2’s music. Second, even if it was because of the music, at best you could say that U2’s music is inherently of the devil. You could not make the assertion that all rock music is inherently of the devil. Third, if listening to this music had such an effect in and of it’s nature, I would expect all (or at least most) of U2’s fanbase to be into witchcraft. If that is true, I would like to see the statistics to back that up.

So far, you have offered no convincing evidence that rock music is inherently evil. In my previous post, I raised several counter-arguments which you failed to respond to. If you would like to address them, I’m still waiting.
 
foolishmortal said:
One girl who left the church was a model Catholic before listening to U2 she said…
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Well, I have a close friend in the seminary…a very devout and faithful seminarian…who was called back to the church years ago and attributes his return, at least in part, to the music of u2.

Also, JP2 worked closely with, and was very supportive of, the lead singer of U2 and his work with the poor in Africa.

Also, several u2 song lyrics are actually taken from psalms…in fact, one of their songs, their song “40” is Psalm 40, verbatim, with no rhythmic thumping whatsoever.

I think you picked the wrong band to pick on if you’re really serious about the whole evil rock music claim…there are plenty of bad ones out there, just not all-and definitely not u2

I remember a time when Mozart’s music was considered sinful because it moved people too much…maybe you should get rid of all of your classical music?

While you’re at it, get rid of all your chocolate because there is scientific evidence that it stimulates the pleasure center of the brain.
 
This generic example does nothing to prove your point. In fact, if anything, it only hurts your argument. Lots of people leave the Catholic Church for many different reasons. First, you have not provided us with nearly enough information to suggest that the reason she got into witchcraft was because of U2’s music. Second, even if it was because of the music, at best you could say that U2’s music is inherently of the devil. You could not make the assertion that all rock music is inherently of the devil. Third, if listening to this music had such an effect in and of it’s nature, I would expect all (or at least most) of U2’s fanbase to be into witchcraft. If that is true, I would like to see the statistics to back that up.

I sensed blasphemy in your message, but I’m sorry as I was wrong. It sounded very much like those who try to make all religions as being man-made and use similarities to “prove” it (kind of like macroevolution is “proven”).

Now you’re generalizing. Getting into witchcraft is only one possibility for ones listening to music meant to be rebellious against a well-ordered society (though people can mask that by oppressing blacks or Catholics at one time. I didn’t have to say U2. Campy music can use the psalms and be short-circuited by disordered sounds. Usually, rock musicians are aware of their opposition and try to do something altruistic that will calm the anger of their detractors. Some, though, really do want to do good for others. Still, tell me, have they had any songs or videos about women moving in sensual ways? I never really liked their sound. What the one who got his Faith back may have been listening to worse music and his coming-back may be due to God working His mysterious ways using the right words at the right time amidst worse stuff, but that doesn’t mean U2 and other bands aesthetics are neutral, spiritually.

What I said about folk rock still holds true as the sound and the singing style are inherently beautiful, even if the words can have drug or sex references (which is a trojan horse for those who love that music). Rock is meant to made to distort thinking and has disordered sounds. Even though I still hear it, I won’t rationalize it.

This is how I understand it. Society was showing signs of disruption before the '60s and fashions were showing more flesh (though that probably should not be a good example because maybe one person out there in the world was brought back to the faith by someone in a miniskirt). Rock n roll was being developed by white people (who were going the wrong way thanks to singers who sang about doing it their way) using seductive styles of song and dance from the black community and mixing them with country sounds (Sinatra style music apparently was not easily mixed and even Sinatra hated the new music as he still had an ordered sense of aesthetics regarding music). I think children since those times have been more rebellious since then.

God made beauty and rock, that is not Simon and Garfunkel type plus lyrics that are not misleading, is not that. That is not meant to mean people with birth defects are not of God, but their souls are and that’s enough. Besides, sin in this fallen world, has an effect on some. He did create mankind to be aesthetically pleasing, though, in the beginning, before the fall. When we make aesthetically disordered art, most will think disorderly. Even Jerry Garcia admitted his orientation to pre-NO Mass art as something that kept him attracted to the Church. You cannot ignore a tendency of thinking, subconscious or conscious, common to us all. We are sheeple to an extent that we can become complacent and base sense-oriented when we feel uncomfortable and, in our idleness, lose more dependence upon God for our happiness. We then rationalize it.

I believe the Church did not want anything entertaining-sounding (even religious) in Mass to distract from it being the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Choirs and pipe organ music apparently were not entertainment but choirs could inspire pious thoughts. Besides, even religious movements did not have words and sounded like any other good music. Maybe there was another reason but, in Mozart’s day, people were people and they could make the music sensual subconsciously, through riotous living, or consciously, to fit with riotous living (maybe their covert version of a folf-rock bunch slipping a marijuana reference into a children’s song about a magic dragon). There have been bards in the middle-ages that had risque lyrics meant for livin’ it up. Usually, though, most priests taught people wrong from right.

Tossing out morality, most of what was rock music for most people was even realized by Sinatra as being aesthetically displeasing. Whether it serves as a good purpose is another consideration, but classical music is less entertaining to the masses than it was in Mozart’s day, yet it can still make for good action movie music.

I was posing an alternate viewpoint and got trashed, so don’t make me out to be the sole jerk. You seemed to have missed the follow-up to my first post on the thread. That’s ok. It’s just interesting, though.
 
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