Nine year old grandson asking what a condom is

[ArielRussu]

Ariel, God punished Onan “for what he did” - an act - not for what he didn’t do. The biblical punishment for not marrying the brother’s widow was merely humiliation. Onan’s punishment was different, worse.

“But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother.” Genesis 38:7-9

The reason God killed Onan is not because Onan wasted his seed on the ground but because Onan refused to perform his familial duties of producing offspring for his brother, which was a great offense at the time. For in Onan’s culture, when a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to “go in to” the wife and produce children. These children were then considered to be the descendants of the original late husband and would be raised as such. This way, the offspring would be able to take care of the mother, provide more people for the community, and thereby raise their own children—continuing the name of that family. Onan knew this and refused to take part in furthering the honor and name of the brother’s wife and thereby also risking provision for her in the future. To this, God was very displeased and took Onan’s life.

Onan did not do his duty which was to impregnate his dead brothers wife, his new wife. He refused to out of greed and selfishness. It’s not the act that was the problem, it was that God told him to impregnate his new wife so that that child could be raised as his dead brothers and thus be able to inherit his dead brothers wealth and Onan refused. Onan wanted his brothers wealth for himself. So Onans sin was greed and disobedience as he did not obey Gods command to make a baby that would grow up to considered his brothers.​

Anyway, we are getting off topic, I suggest we stay on the topic of how should the OP explain condoms too her grandson.

 

[Rau]

“But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother.” Genesis 38:7-9

The reason God killed Onan is not because Onan wasted his seed on the ground but because Onan refused to perform his familial duties of producing offspring for his brother, which was a great offense at the time. For in Onan’s culture, when a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to “go in to” the wife and produce children. These children were then considered to be the descendants of the original late husband and would be raised as such. This way, the offspring would be able to take care of the mother, provide more people for the community, and thereby raise their own children—continuing the name of that family. Onan knew this and refused to take part in furthering the honor and name of the brother’s wife and thereby also risking provision for her in the future. To this, God was very displeased and took Onan’s life.

Onan did not do his duty which was to impregnate his dead brothers wife, his new wife. He refused to out of greed and selfishness. It’s not the act that was the problem, it was that God told him to impregnate his new wife so that that child could be raised as his dead brothers and thus be able to inherit his dead brothers wealth and Onan refused. Onan wanted his brothers wealth for himself. So Onans sin was greed and disobedience as he did not obey Gods command to make a baby that would grow up to considered his brothers.​

Anyway, we are getting off topic, I suggest we stay on the topic of how should the OP explain condoms too her grandson.

The biblical Punishment for failing to act appropriately in the circumstances was a “public humiliation.” Not death. As the Bible says God killed Onan “for what he did”. Not for failing to do his duty toward the woman. The biblical punishment for the latter is stated elsewhere as “public humiliation”.

 

[ArielRussu]

The biblical Punishment for failing to act appropriately in the circumstances was a “public humiliation.” Not death. As the Bible says God killed Onan “for what he did”. Not for failing to do his duty toward the woman. The biblical punishment for the latter is stated elsewhere as “public humiliation”.

Your answer is stated in black and white:
“Onan knew that the offspring would not be his So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother.” Genesis 38:7-9

God slew Onan because Onan refused to fulfill his familial responsibility under the Old Covenant. This was called Levirate marriage, where a dead man’s closest unmarried male married the widow to produce an heir for the dead man. It was created to preserve tribal inheritance rights. Onan was disobedient. He did not want his son to be raised his brothers. It was the intention NOT the act.

It is also important to note that Levirate marriage laws DO NOT apply today.

Don’t also forget later in the same chapter the Bible promotes prostitution as Tamar slept with Judah and got pregnant and after Judah realized Tamar deceived him, he called her more righteous than he.

I will also mention that section talking about humiliation as the consequence of not following through with tribal law was humiliation took place around 800 to 1000 years AFTER the story of Onan and A LOT can change in 800 - 1000 years, especially laws.

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Anyway, we are getting off topic, I suggest we stay on the topic of how should the OP explain condoms too her grandson.

 

[truetofaith]

So, you seriously believe that a loving married couple who both consent to use condoms to prevent an unwanted pregnancy are just as terrible as an Isis member who rapes an 8 month old baby or throws a homosexual off a building? Seriously? And don’t say you didn’t directly say this because you imply it by saying that condom use is just as bad as a rape or murder, in Gods eyes when it’s not, they are not even comparable!

Condoms involve putting rubber on your partner genitals to stop semen and an unwanted baby from happening which is NOT the end of the world, honestly, society would be better off if some people were never conceived (ex. Hitler), that is unless you want to call responsible family planning a crimes However, truth be told, rape and murder are ACTUAL heinous crimes and ACTUAL sins against other humans, putting a piece of rubber on you spouses genitals is not. There is nothing in the Bible saying condoms are sinful and Onan does not count. Onans sin was his greed and selfish refusal to sire a son on behalf of his brother, thus going against Gods order not because he pulled out. Onan defied Gods order to impregnate his dead brothers wife, whom he married by tradition of levitate law, because Onan did not want to have a son who would not be considered legally his and who would take away his chance of inheriting his dead brother’s property.

Condoms and blowing a load outside of the woman’s you know what are only “sinful” because the Catholic handbook says so. Not because the Bible says so. The Bible is up for interpretation.

So no, you saying that condom use is like rape and murder and that a married couple in a position where a new baby could make already desperate situations involving finances, endangerment of the mother health or etc worse, is absolute baloney. If both parties consent to use a condom, they are NOT harming there marriage. What can harm a marriage is poverty, putting a child into the mix of an already bad situation, infidelity, lack of trust, etc… Also when I mentioned no long abstinence needed I was not promoting a couple have sex everyday, 7 days a week, 12 months a year for years on end.​

Anyway, we are getting off topic, I suggest we stay on the topic of how should the OP explain condoms too her grandson.

Apparently, you are not Catholic.

For us Catholics…we must follow the rules!

 

[EasterJoy]

The child doesn’t have to be asking about little children being raped, pregnant women being shot or prisoners being burnt alive. These examples were given most likely to point out how using a condom is not the worst thing that can happen and certainly can’t break Gods heart more than little children being raped, pregnant women being shot or prisoners being burnt alive, which are violent events and ACTUAL crimes against another human being where as a condom is just a piece of rubber used to prevent a baby.

I mean honestly, your just preventing a pregnancy that the couple doesn’t want at the present moment for whatever there reasons are. It’s quick, fast and easy, no long abstinence, remembering too take a pill or measure whatever or fretting over charting needed. It’s not the end of the world, you are not hurting anyone, your just putting rubber on your spouses genital, unless you or your partner are allergic to latex that is, in which case buy non latex ones.

Though, too the OP, I’d just tell your daughter to tell her son that condoms are for adults and not young children and that she will tell him more when he’s older.

There are a lot of ways to ruin your relationship with someone, some worse and some not as hideous, but if the relationship is dead, why would anyone console themselves that they squandered a relationship because of some garden-variety stubbornness rather than by doing a more outrageous thing? Does it matter if you fail to get your degree because you just failed to show up for all of your finals instead of failing because you were kicked out of the university for assault? Did you finish your degree, in either case? No. Is that unfair? No. Would it be incorrect to say that skipping the last month of your senior year will lead to the same outcome of not graduating as doing something to get yourself thrown out? It is an oversimplification, perhaps, but it isn’t untrue. You went to college for four years, but then you decided that some requirement was beneath you, and you blew all that hard work on a stubborn insistence on doing things your own way.

The topic was whether or not it is appropriate to tell a child that a bad act could make God weep, so certainly challenging the rationalization that barrier methods of contraception are not murder is near to the topic. Who ever became a saint by rationalizing away whatever forbidden thing they wanted to do by rationalizing that they could be doing worse things? Remember the promise that lead to the first mortal sin:

*But the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die! No, God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad.” *Gen. 3:4-5

 

[ArielRussu]

Apparently, you are not Catholic.

For us Catholics…we must follow the rules!

You mean the Catholic Churches interpretation of the Bible.

The topic was whether or not it is appropriate to tell a child that a bad act could make God weep, so certainly challenging the rationalization that barrier methods of contraception are not murder is near to the topic. Who ever became a saint by rationalizing away whatever forbidden thing they wanted to do by rationalizing that they could be doing worse things? Remember the promise that lead to the first mortal sin

It’s only “forbidden” because the Catholic manual says it’s forbidden, which is based on the Catholic Churches interpretation of the Bible. When in reality, there is no where in the Bible that directly addresses birth control methods, and as I discussed earlier, Onans sin was disobeying Levirate Law. Putting a condom on a penis or inside the vagina to stop semen from entering the vagina and creating a baby is NOT murder aka killing a human being, throwing someone off a bridge or shooting them in the head is!

Children are blessings but there are times when they are best avoided, not everyone can pop out children left and right and expect those children to have adequate shelter, food, healthcare, good education, parent attention, etc… Especially in today’s age where, at least in my state you need to make $22 an hour to afford a 2 bedroom apartment and with all those kids, either mom stays home, family or friends babysit (an option not always available) or you get daycare, a pricy option when you have many young children. Not to mention what if a child has medical problems, or multiple children? How do you expect to give them the care they deserve? And NFP does NOT work for everyone, not to mention the stress that comes with it. You can’t expect welfare to support your family because you and your spouse want to be “fruitful” and have many children. No offense.

When a condom is used only the single celled organism (sperm) die, NOT an actual human being. Regardless, all but ONE sperm die, when an egg is fertilized post sex that is, without a condom anyway! Either due too a deformity or the harsh environment of the female reproductive tract, except for the ONE sperm that fertilizes the egg. Heck, once the egg is fertilized by the ONE sperm, all the other sperm just die, they are programmed too. What about the other sperm in the semen left on the outside of the women during sex? Is that couple wrong because not every last drop went into the women?

Sorry for the graphic description, I tried to avoid it in previous posts, but sometimes a person has to be very specific to get the point across.

 

[Rau]

Apparently, you are not Catholic.

For us Catholics…we must follow the rules!

Yes, a rule held since the beginning, and only much later challenged. It’s funny how those who think the Onan story is merely about disobedience also hold the the view that contraceptive acts are just fine! I guess they figure the inclusion in the Onan story of a contraceptive act is just a coincidence, or perhaps just included to spice it up a bit. After all, it is entirely superfluous to a story about disobedience.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Apparently, you are not Catholic.

For us Catholics…we must follow the rules!

Your answer is technically correct but I kind of cringed when I read it. I’m a huge fan of the “rules”. People don’t follow them enough. Everyone thinks they are the exception from the rules. I’m a rules guy. So much so that I find it hard to sit through liturgies in my desert of Catholic parishes…

But. To someone who is questioning the rule “because mama said so” is not sufficient. We live in a world where we cannot define marriage, we have no idea what sex is for or even what sex a person is. It’s tragic in our world. We need to be more engaging that , “well, the rules forbid” is why we are losing the intellectual battle. We need to engage in the why. We need to ask how someone thinks condoms would be a path to holiness. We need to redefine sex, marriage and yes we should also emphasize obedience. Where one does not fully understand the rules, obedience should be emphasized as a virtue. A path to being holy which is what we are called to be.

 

[truetofaith]

You mean the Catholic Churches interpretation of the Bible.

It’s only “forbidden” because the Catholic manual says it’s forbidden, which is based on the Catholic Churches interpretation of the Bible. When in reality, there is no where in the Bible that directly addresses birth control methods, and as I discussed earlier, Onans sin was disobeying Levirate Law. Putting a condom on a penis or inside the vagina to stop semen from entering the vagina and creating a baby is NOT murder aka killing a human being, throwing someone off a bridge or shooting them in the head is!

Children are blessings but there are times when they are best avoided, not everyone can pop out children left and right and expect those children to have adequate shelter, food, healthcare, good education, parent attention, etc… Especially in today’s age where, at least in my state you need to make $22 an hour to afford a 2 bedroom apartment and with all those kids, either mom stays home, family or friends babysit (an option not always available) or you get daycare, a pricy option when you have many young children. Not to mention what if a child has medical problems, or multiple children? How do you expect to give them the care they deserve? And NFP does NOT work for everyone, not to mention the stress that comes with it. You can’t expect welfare to support your family because you and your spouse want to be “fruitful” and have many children. No offense.

When a condom is used only the single celled organism (sperm) die, NOT an actual human being. Regardless, all but ONE sperm die, when an egg is fertilized post sex that is, without a condom anyway! Either due too a deformity or the harsh environment of the female reproductive tract, except for the ONE sperm that fertilizes the egg. Heck, once the egg is fertilized by the ONE sperm, all the other sperm just die, they are programmed too. What about the other sperm in the semen left on the outside of the women during sex? Is that couple wrong because not every last drop went into the women?

Sorry for the graphic description, I tried to avoid it in previous posts, but sometimes a person has to be very specific to get the point across.

There is the potential for life which is ended with artificial birth control.

The nuns used to say “God will provide” for those worried about finances. I knew a few people who had 6 to 10 kids & did O.K.
They had jobs & a husband or wife…didn’t want the government to support them!

 

[EasterJoy]

You mean the Catholic Churches interpretation of the Bible.

Well, yes, I mean the interpretation of the Bible that comes from Apostolic authority. If you don’t concede us that ground, what on earth are you doing here?

(By the way, you didn’t really have to explain what a condom does to the readers here. The OP’s grandson doesn’t understand their use, but we all do.)

 

[truetofaith]

Well, yes, I mean the interpretation of the Bible that comes from Apostolic authority. If you don’t concede us that ground, what on earth are you doing here?

(By the way, you didn’t really have to explain what a condom does to the readers here. The OP’s grandson doesn’t understand their use, but we all do.)

Ariel doesn’t state her religion, so is probably not a Catholic.

Some people seem to get a kick out of the kinkiest questions!

 

[ArielRussu]

There is the potential for life which is ended with artificial birth control.

You say that as if all potential too life is a good thing? It’s not always. Baby’s are blessings but circumstances outside of baby can make that child’s life hell or make life for them not actually worth it in the long haul.

The nuns used to say “God will provide” for those worried about finances. I knew a few people who had 6 to 10 kids & did O.K.
They had jobs & a husband or wife…didn’t want the government to support them!

Please, do tell that too this woman I saw on a documentary a few years back in Africa who was living in a run down hut, in crippling poverty, with a husband who only uses her for sex and who just gave birth too her 8th child (I believe), meaning another mouth too feed when her other children are already starving from lack of food, and she had already lost numerous others to starvation and/or miscarriages.

Or what about Octomom?

There are also people who unfortunately take advantage of welfare just too have kids. There was this women I saw on the news years ago who had just gave birth too her 15th child and was collecting over $50,000 in welfare to pay for those children, whom she was only having so she could keep getting welfare checks and not have too get a job.

Well, yes, I mean the interpretation of the Bible that comes from Apostolic authority.

If a concept/teaching/rule is not in the Bible, it’s not of God, it is of man. Apostolic succession is not biblical, for the concept is never found in Scripture. Tradition is a manmade concept, not a God concept.

If you don’t concede us that ground, what on earth are you doing here?

People of various different beliefs are on these forums. It’s not just for Catholics.

(By the way, you didn’t really have to explain what a condom does to the readers here. The OP’s grandson doesn’t understand their use, but we all do.)

Actually I did need to explain. I’ve learned that in order to prevent any miscommunication and get my point across with people, I need too breakdown my words and be very painstakingly specific, that way, everyone understands my point

 

[Rau]

If a concept/teaching/rule is not in the Bible, it’s not of God, it is of man. Apostolic succession is not biblical, for the concept is never found in Scripture. Tradition is a manmade concept, not a God concept.

So you believe what the bible teaches? You believe it is the word of God in fact?

 

[Lea101]

My sister asked what is sex when she was 7 and i told her “it’s a biological process two people take part in to ensure the survival of homosapiens”. She couldn’t understand anything and dropped the topic

Sometimes the best way is to tell them the truth in a very complicated way

 

[ArielRussu]

So you believe what the bible teaches? You believe it is the word of God in fact?

Yes. Why, don’t you?

 

[Rau]

Yes. Why, don’t you?

I’ve declared my faith as Catholic, so yes. I had no reason to presume anything about you though, given you state no religious affiliation. What do you understand the words of God to mean through which Peter is given authority to “bind and loose” and “Feed my lambs…”?

 

[heidi_storage]

Ariel, realize that when you’re arguing a point of doctrine, it’s rather pointless to try to convince the Catholics reading that the Catholic doctrine is wrong. Being a “cafeteria Catholic” makes no sense; if you believe that apostolic authority extends to the Bishop of Rome and that it is the one true church in full communion with Christ, you have to accept what it teaches, even when not convenient or agreeable to you.

I’m a Protestant, not because I don’t like the Church’s stances on condoms and birth control, but because I hold different views of the universal Christian church, how and in whom authority is vested, views on grace and faith, the nature of the Lord’s Supper, baptism, and many other issues. If people agreed with me on those views, well–they wouldn’t be holding Catholic beliefs. That being the case, I never debate the Pope’s authority, or sola scriptura, or any other point unless I’m on a thread that’s specifically discussing Catholic vs. non-Catholic views of Christianity.

All this to say: I’m not sure why you’re trying to argue that condoms are not sinful. Catholic teaching is that they are sinful, and that all sexual acts should be a) within marriage, and b) ordered to openness toward life. End of story.

 

[heidi_storage]

(P.S. Octomom is a bad example anyway, because Catholics oppose the kind of fertility treatments Nadya Suleman underwent.)

 

[struggling4him]

what kind of a sick **** is raising him?!

 

[Rosebud77]

Every time I see this thread I smile so thank you!