No absolution possible if I am in disagreement about a sin being a sin?

[paspec]

As far as I understand Catholic doctrine, it is not possible to be absolved of a sin if one doesn’t meet certain criteria, one of which being sorry for something the Catholic church labels a sin.

If me and my wife ever wanted to get married in the Catholic church (of which she has expressed an interest in the past, we were married by a notary public in the first place), would I have to confess and be sorry about our marital cohabitation prior to us getting “sacramentally married”? (I am a baptized, non-practising Catholic. Agnostic, more like)

 

[Gertabelle]

I’m assuming your wife is a practicing Catholic then, yes?

This is one of those conversations you and she should really have with a priest, rather than a bunch of us ordinary strangers on the internet. I mean, I’ll try to answer your question, but I’m an elementary school music teacher, not a theologian, or Catholic apologist, or Canon lawyer.

If you are not a practicing Catholic, then there would be no need for you to go to confession – unless you are intending to return to the practice of the faith.

Again, make a call to the parish office, and make an appointment to discuss this with a real-life priest. He’ll have been down this path enough times to have the answers you need. :+1:t4:

And welcome to CAF! We’re a strange lot, even by internet standards.

 

[LilyM]

As far as I understand Catholic doctrine, it is not possible to be absolved of a sin if one doesn’t meet certain criteria, one of which being sorry for something the Catholic church labels a sin.

If me and my wife ever wanted to get married in the Catholic church (of which she has expressed an interest in the past, we were married by a notary public in the first place), would I have to confess and be sorry about our marital cohabitation prior to us getting “sacramentally married”? (I am a baptized, non-practising Catholic. Agnostic, more like)

Not an expert, but pretty sure it would only need one of you (either yourself or wife) to be Catholic. And only Catholics are obligated to confess to a priest.

Has she been baptised Catholic? Received First Communion and Confirmation?

 

[paspec]

Thanks for your answer. She is non-practising, together with me, has some stronger affinity to it, more of a positive history with it than I do, but also issue with it on her own. She expressed a wish “to get married in the church”. As far as I understand that would entail all the sacramental preparation, including a promise to bring any future children up catholic. We are both Catholic “on record”, with slightly different outlooks on it, but neither of us knows how to get married in the church.

 

[paspec]

Thanks for your answer. She is non-practising, together with me, has some stronger affinity to it, more of a positive history with it than I do, but also issue with it on her own. She expressed a wish “to get married in the church”. As far as I understand that would entail all the sacramental preparation, including a promise to bring any future children up catholic. We are both Catholic “on record”, with slightly different outlooks on it, but neither of us knows how to get married in the church.

 

[PetraG]

Actually, you don’t need to personally agree with moral law as the Church teaches it. You don’t need to see the wisdom in it. You don’t need to have an emotional feeling of remorse. You only need to have the attitude that you desire only to do what is right and that you will to turn away from anything that is a barrier between you and God.

If you get married, after all, would you not want to disavow things that your wife assures you are offensive to her, even if you don’t “get it”? More to the point, do you want her to persist in doing things that you have told her are offensive to you because she insists those things ought to be OK with you?

We can’t manufacture emotions. We don’t always have insight into what it is about what we do that offends the people we love that offends them. We can still believe them when they say something isn’t OK with them and we still regret doing anything that upset them, even if we intended no harm and cannot for a moment imagine being offended ourselves if the tables were turned.

If you can accept that God, for whatever reason, really did mean–or even possibly could have meant–“what you hold bound on earth shall be bound in Heaven and what you hold loosed on earth shall be loosed in Heaven,” then you can, out of obedience, decide to disavow acts that violate moral law as the Church teaches it. You may not lie in a confessional, but you don’t have to wait until you “feel it” before you confess that you have done things the Church teaches are immoral.

If you are not a practicing Catholic, then there would be no need for you to go to confession – unless you are intending to return to the practice of the faith.

Well…yeah…the OP needs to talk to the priest who is going to marry them. Holy Matrimony ought to be approached in a state of grace, and most priests will try to persuade the spouses to disavow all mortal sins before embarking upon marriage, including those committed against the sanctity of marriage. I have never heard a priest say that canon law is different for Catholics who are practicing and those who aren’t, but only different (sometimes) for those who are Catholics, those who are non-Catholic Christians and those who are neither.

Can. 1063 Pastors of souls are obliged to take care that their ecclesiastical community offers the Christian faithful the assistance by which the matrimonial state is preserved in a Christian spirit and advances in perfection. This assistance must be offered especially by:…
2/ personal preparation to enter marriage, which disposes the spouses to the holiness and duties of their new state;
and
Can. 1065 §2. To receive the sacrament of marriage fruitfully, spouses are urged especially to approach the sacraments of penance and of the Most Holy Eucharist.
and so on…

 

[paspec]

My disbelief is not offensive to her. She understands why I am the way I am. Question is, does the CC marry such a couple, where at least one spouse is not willing to subscribe to Catholicism (also in regards to bringing up the children Catholic)?

 

[PetraG]

My disbelief is not offensive to her. She understands why I am the way I am. Question is, does the CC marry such a couple, where at least one spouse is not willing to subscribe to Catholicism (also in regards to bringing up the children Catholic)?

Are you willing to bring your children up Catholic? Be honest, and talk this over with your spouse. Whether you are Catholic or not, this is a big deal when it comes to raising children. (My husband is non-Catholic, so I know whereof I speak).

Anyway–talk to a priest sooner rather than later, but first talk to each other about your future together and where the Catholic faith is going to fit into it. You need to be on the same page and understand each other when you go to talk to the priest. Don’t put each other in a position to be surprised about what you feel and intend and what your prospective spouse feels and intends during that conversation.

I don’t know what the priest is going to tell you. Catholics have a right to marry other Catholics in the Church, just as they have a right to all the sacraments, but only if they are willing to be properly disposed. How to handle your situation is a pastoral matter, but I think it is highly unlikely that it is one your priest has never handled.

 

[paspec]

I am not willing to bring them up Catholic. That is why I am asking if there is any point in having a Catholic wedding in addition to the secular one.

 

[paspec]

(And if there is any point in going through Catholic wedding preparation)

All this in light of my wife having expressed an interested in it, and herself being a lapsed Catholic.

 

[PetraG]

I am not willing to bring them up Catholic. That is why I am asking if there is any point in having a Catholic wedding in addition to the secular one.

A priest would not be out of place to wonder out loud why two Catholics who aren’t practicing and do not intend to bring their children up Catholic and don’t feel bound by what the Church teaches even want to get married in the Catholic Church.

It is in the Catholic marriage vows that you promise you will welcome children and bring them up in the Catholic faith. That is the birthright of the children of a Catholic marriage. To say you are going to do it when neither of you means it is a violation of your integrity. Why would you do that?

(And if there is any point in going through Catholic wedding preparation)

All this in light of my wife having expressed an interested in it, and herself being a lapsed Catholic.

Actually, Engaged Encounter was worth the time, if only to have time away to go through all the specific conversations that a couple ought to have before they marry and many do not. You have time to reflect and time to discuss these things. What, for instance, are you going to do if one of you “lapsed” Catholics decides, as many people do, to return to practicing the faith after marriage? Would either of you stand in the way of the other? These are questions worth answering before marriage. (You would also talk about non-religious matters that you need to have discussed.)

 

[paspec]

Just asking if it is possible to get married in the CC if I don’t believe in it and if my wife believes in it (to whatever degree she can at the time), but I am the one opting out of everything Catholic, including upbringing of the children. (Let’s assume a scenario where my wife is fully Catholic again), would I be the one preventing getting married in the church with my stance?

 

[paspec]

Actually, Engaged Encounter was worth the time, if only to have time away to go through all the specific conversations that a couple ought to have before they marry and many do not. You have time to reflect and time to discuss these things. What, for instance, are you going to do if one of you “lapsed” Catholics decides, as many people do, to return to practicing the faith after marriage? Would either of you stand in the way of the other? These are questions worth answering before marriage. (You would also talk about non-religious matters that you need to have discussed.)

We answered these questions to each other.

 

[paspec]

Just wondering if it’s even possible to get married in the church, given the circumstance. Not asking for relationship advice, we are pretty good on that front.

 

[GiftofMercy]

This sounds firstly like you and your wife are going to have to work this out. Find a compromise. Why is it important the children are or are not brought up Catholic to you as a couple?
If it is important to your wife to have a correct Catholic wedding, why is it objectionable to you.

Perhaps both of you should go and speak to a Priest about these things in the course of discerning the right path for your marriage and children.

 

[paspec]

Thank you for your answer. We are working it out and the specifics of it are not a matter I will publish here. My question is: If I am not promising to bring the children up Catholic, and if I am not willing to undergo marriage preparation as the church prescribes it (including confession, which includes being sorry for sins I am not sorry about, e.g. cohabitation), will the church even marry us?

 

[GiftofMercy]

Will you allow your wife to bring the children up Catholic? Again this is something you guys need to find compromise over. What is important to who and why. I haven’t read the entire thread, are you Catholic and have you had all the sacraments?
I think your take on cohabitation with your wife in common law, might be a little harsher then what you will encounter with a Priest. The Priest is not going to sit there and demand you be sorry. The Priest should be encouraging and rejoicing that you guys are going to be married in the Church.

You love this woman, she loves you. Compromise is going to make a very happy healthy marriage and life time of togetherness

 

[paspec]

I was brought up SSPX catholic and have since lapsed. But even that, and even the conversation with my wife and how the priest feels about it don’t really cut to the core of what I am asking: As far as I know, even if one of the spouses is a of a different belief, it has to be promised that the children resulting from the marriage be brought up Catholic. So, in my circumstance, I am wondering if there is any point even going towards a church marriage if this not the case. And my wife would ask you the same question, because we have talked about it.

 

[CRV]

If you’re not prepared to repent of your sins, to return to the Church and practice the Faith, then what is the point in being married “in the Church”?

CCC #1622 ""Inasmuch as it is a sacramental action of sanctification, the liturgical celebration of marriage . . . must be, per se, valid, worthy, and fruitful."123 It is therefore appropriate for the bride and groom to prepare themselves for the celebration of their marriage by receiving the sacrament of penance. "

And as @PetraG said, one promise a Catholic makes during the Sacrament of Matrimony is to raise their children Catholic. There are other issues which is covered in the preparation for this Sacrament, one of which is to be open to new life, accepting however many children God sends.

IMO, I don’t think a priest would marry you under circumstances where the Catholic party is not prepared to live their life as they should - attending Mass, praying daily, receive the other sacraments ie Communion & Confession, raise their children in the Faith etc.

would I have to confess and be sorry about our marital cohabitation prior to us getting “sacramentally married”? (I am a baptized, non-practising Catholic.

In a nutshell - yes.

Being sorry for all sins of fornication which occured prior to Sacramental Marriage means

1. you are sorry for offending God in those ways,
2. admitting you’ve done the wrong thing and sinned against God who intended these acts to occur within marriage (Sacramental not civil marriage).
3. resolve to amend your conduct - which if you remain chaste until the Sacramental marriage, you will have done.

Best advice - speak to a priest about this, he can answer your questions better than we can, and he can help resolve any misunderstanding on your or your wifes’ part and advise you accordingly.

But as I understand it, the Catholic parties would have to return to practicing the Catholic faith. Another point to raise with a priest is the possibility of retroactive validation.

I found this link → Getting Married in the Catholic Church which coves about 75 FAQ.

it has to be promised that the children resulting from the marriage be brought up Catholic.

Correct. Obviously there are reasons you aren’t listing here - wisely - why you and/or your wife are/would be against raising the children in the Faith. I think it wise to raise these concerns with a priest as he may be able to help to resolve these concerns - especially as you say you were brought up SSPX.

God bless.

 

[GiftofMercy]

Again, you guys seem to be , one wants to have a Catholic marriage, one doesn’t, one wants to bring children up Catholic, one doesn’t. So who wins out? what do you decide and why do you decide it? What will happen if your wife is denied a Catholic wedding? Or bringing her children up the way she would like, Catholic? What will happen if she gets a Catholic wedding?

Have you had the sacraments, i.e. communion, confession, confirmation?
If you have had the sacraments and can go to confession, I would just be saying to the priest we have been married civilly and I am not sorry we did this. But It is important to my wife to be married in the Church and have our children brought up Catholic so here I am. Let the Priest guide you.

Does your wife want to be married in an SSPX parish or a regular mainstream parish?

Be honest and be guided. You are an adult, no one is going to punish you for not being sorry you married the woman you love civilly.