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Verita
Guest
Well, at least the FIRST way should be Baptism.But the ordinary way is baptism
Jeremy
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kaycee
Guest
Act 19
"While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior of the country and came (down) to Ephesus where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the holy Spirit when you became believers?” "
The answer Paul expected was yes, thats why he asked!
They answered him, “We have never even heard that there is a holy Spirit.”
Your believers and have NEVER heard of the Holy Spirit??
"He said, “How were you baptized?” They replied, “With the baptism of John.” "
**They NEVER heard of the Holy Spirit AND only know about John’s baptism???
These were obviously disciples of John and had not heard the entire Gospel of JESUS’s death and resurection**
Paul then said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.”
Paul tells them the entire Gospel for the first time and they believe!
“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. **And when Paul laid (his) hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, **and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.”
This verse only says when Paul lays hands on them the Holy Spirit came upon them. Not at baptism.
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jmcrae
Guest
The laying on of hands (which is called Confirmation, today) is part of the Rite of Christian Initiation. It doesn’t happen without baptism, first.
I think your problem is that you’re thinking in terms of singular events, instead of seeing the entire sequence together, and understanding that “getting saved” is a many-parts process that must begin during this life-time, but doesn’t end during this life-time - not a one-time one-thing whatever-“alone” (faith alone, scripture alone, Christ alone, grace alone, etc.) event.
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kaycee
Guest
That is clearly incorrect. The Lord plainly states “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life,”
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
To disobey the Son
John 6:28
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Joh 8:24
“I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”
1 Cor 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Heb 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.
1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son
1 Cor 1:17** For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel**–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
It is clearly belief vs. non belief.
What do you consider the commands we need to obey for salvation?
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NotWorthy
Guest
You are obviusly reading more into it than it says. No where does it say they were discipled of John. No where does it say they hadn’t heard of Jesus’ death and resurrection.
You’re again reading more than the Scripture says. No where does it say they hadn’t heard the Gospel before
Let’s see, Paul Baptized them, which involves laying on the hands. When they describe Paul laying on the hands, they received the Holy Spirit.
This is all described as one event. Why are you trying to make this into two events?
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NotWorthy
Guest
I absoluetly love this quote!!! Why do you take this literally, and then don’t feel you have to “obey the Son”? Jesus says you must be born of water and Spirit. Since the earliest time, the Christian Church has taught that this is Baptism.
Kaycee, you sound like “believing in Jesus” is just an act of faith. It means following His commands. It means doing the Will of the Father. It means so much more than just “believing”.
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kaycee
Guest
I think you missed the point. The Holy Spirit was recieved not during baptism but when Paul laid his hands on them.
Believers also recieved the Holy Spirit when they believed before baptism
Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
Acts 10:44
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were **included **in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Clearly Faith is the effective means of salvation. Baptism is commanded to publically proclaim our association with Christ a symbol of what Christ has done to us in reality.
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Mickey
Guest
1 Peter 3: 18-22
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
Baptism, which corresponds to this,** now saves you**, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
Seems like much more than a mere symbol.
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kaycee
Guest
What are the requirements for salvation after Faith? What is the will of the Father?
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Maureen_Fiore
Guest
I understand that anyone can baptise a person, but I was wondering if a Catholic nun baptises a baby are the parents supppose to follow the Catholic religion?
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mikeledes
Guest
Is the Holy Spirit received only and exclusively after believing? Luke 1:15 states that John the Baptist would be filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb. Did he make a declaration of faith in his mother’ s womb to recieve the Holy Spirit? I think not. What about John 3, which states that unless one is born of WATER and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven? Or 1 Peter 3:18-22 that unequivocally says that “baptism now saves you”?
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kaycee
Guest
Lu 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, **“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” ** No Baptism here.
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
Yes. In the case of infants, there has to be a reasonable chance of the child being brought up as a Christian for baptism to be permitted. However baptisms carried out in violation of this rule would still be sacramentally valid.
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NotWorthy
Guest
There are no “requirements”. Don’t look for a bar you have to pass over. Each of us is given different gifts, and “more will be expected when more is given” (paraphrase).
Look at the Parable of the sheeps and goats. That’s a good starting point on doing the outward signs or the “Will of the Father”.
The Beautitudes is a good place to start on changing your heart, which will lead to doing the “Will of the Father”.
Obeying Jesus words, which introduce us to His Church and the Sacraments.
And of course the two greatest commandments, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul” and “Love your neighbor as you love yourself”.
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Verita
Guest
“Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.” Matthew 25:34-36
That is one requirement.
And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:16-17
There is another.
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Verita
Guest
You must understand that Jesus can save anyone any way that He wants to. He is God. He has every right to make exceptions.
kaycee, answer a question for me please. Do you recognize that Jesus instructs us to be Baptized?
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mikeledes
Guest
Exceptions to the rule do not reflect the norm. God is not bound by his own rules. According to the Law of Gravity, Jesus should have sunk as soon as he stepped on the water, and yet He didn’t. According to the biological laws of reproduction, you need two parents in order to conceive a child and yet Jesus only had one human parent. God can work outside of his own rules in order to prove a point. In the case of Luke 7:50, Jesus wanted to prove that he had the authority to forgive sins. The norm as established in John 3, 1 Peter 3, and other Bible passages is that a person receives saving grace through baptism.
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Maureen_Fiore
Guest
But, the child never followed in the Catholic faith due to the fact that both parents lacked in their Christian duties. I think they follow the Methodist Religion, but very slightly. Now this boy is now a man and his girlfriend is Episcopalian and are planning to get married in her church. Her pastor told her that her boyfriend would need to be baptised before he can get married in her church. His mother stated that he was baptised by a nun. I wondered to myself, where is it documented. Usually, when you are baptised in a Catholic church you have a baptismal record. How can this be if a nun baptised him, I wonder where is the records of this event and does this make him a Catholic?
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mikeledes
Guest
I love this quote because it is directly from Jesus’s mouth. What was his reponse to this question on how to obtain eternal life? Just have faith? No! Keeping the commandments! That sounds like a very un-Protestant response to me. How dare he say we need to DO something to gain eternal life! Who does he think he is?! Oh , my bad, He’s Jesus.
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