No Baptism necc

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Montie_Claunch

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I was talking to a gentleman on faith alone, as I said on a previous thread, and he stated that baptism wasn’t necc. Saying that circumcision dosen’t count as anything to Jesus (Gal. 5:6) and scince Baptism was the new circumsision (Col. 2:11,12), baptism isn’t necc. How should I respond? Thanks and God bless.
 
Read Acts, Chapter 2:37-38. During the Pentecost, after Peter’s sermon, Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
 
Read 1 Peter 3: 20-21 - God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.
 
Read the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ at the end of Matthew (28:19-20) -
*** Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them** in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.*
 
Now read how God prophecied all of this through Ezekiel. Look at the words and compare them with Peter’s in Acts. (Ezek 36:25-27)

*** I will sprinkle clean water upon you** to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.*
 
now read Romans 4 ; 5 " To him that workth not but believeth in him that justifith the ungodly his faith is counted to him for rightioueness…

seventy years walking with the Lord
seventy years in the fullness of the faith
seventy years a Baptist
allischelmers.
 
Right, allis, and ignore all of those verses showing the necessity of baptism. 👍 :rolleyes:
 
All those verses have something first before baptism, either repent (turn form sin to God) or believe. Everybody that was ever baptized in the Bible always professed belief in Jesus Christ first.

seventy years walking with the Lord
seventy years in the fullness of the faith
seventy years a Baptist
allischalmers
 
NotWorthy said:
Read the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ at the end of Matthew (28:19-20) -
*** Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them*** in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
Click to expand...
This is the verse I’ve used. I ask if baptism is unnecessary, why did Jesus command it to be done? His apostles were to baptize, but no one actually needed to be baptized?

Allischalmers–is this a current Baptist belief, that baptism is unnecessary? I was reading a book by a Baptist that I admire and he was deploring the fact that so many Baptists now think baptism is purely symbolic and thus not important.
 
allischalmers said:
All those verses have something first before baptism, either repent (turn form sin to God) or believe. Everybody that was ever baptized in the Bible always professed belief in Jesus Christ first.

seventy years walking with the Lord
seventy years in the fullness of the faith
seventy years a Baptist
allischalmers
Click to expand...
That is true, but you are trying to interject that Baptism is not necessary. I’m not saying Baptism is the ONLY thing that’s necessary, but I’m stating, as clearly as I can, that Baptism is one of the pieces of the puzzle that we must insert, according to the Inspired Word of God.

P.S. I gave you the benefit of the doubt on your statement, Allis, because I did not want to regress this thread into a debate on Infant Baptism.
 
allischalmers said:
All those verses have something first before baptism, either repent (turn form sin to God) or believe. Everybody that was ever baptized in the Bible always professed belief in Jesus Christ first.
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Hence, 6 months (minimum) to 2 years of RCIA before adult baptism.

Infants have no personal sin, and thus, nothing they need to repent of.
 
Montie,

Strictly speaking, water baptism is not necessary; for example, the thief on the cross was not baptized but wound up in Heaven anyway. But just because God allows some exceptions is no reason for us to ignore His rules.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
Montie,

Strictly speaking, water baptism is not necessary; for example, the thief on the cross was not baptized but wound up in Heaven anyway. But just because God allows some exceptions is no reason for us to ignore His rules.
  • Liberian
Click to expand...
we are bound not God.
The works referred to in Romans are works of the torah.
 
Montie_Claunch said:
I was talking to a gentleman on faith alone, as I said on a previous thread, and he stated that baptism wasn’t necc. Saying that circumcision dosen’t count as anything to Jesus (Gal. 5:6) and scince Baptism was the new circumsision (Col. 2:11,12), baptism isn’t necc. How should I respond? Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...
That kind of logic is exactly the same as saying that the Old Testament sacrifices “don’t count any more” so therefore Jesus’ New Testament Sacrifice doesn’t count either.
 
Liberian said:
Montie,

Strictly speaking, water baptism is not necessary; for example, the thief on the cross was not baptized but wound up in Heaven anyway. But just because God allows some exceptions is no reason for us to ignore His rules.
  • Liberian
Click to expand...
There are three kinds of Baptism: water baptism, which is ordinarily required; Baptism of Desire (which the Good Thief, St. Dismas, has - if he had lived, he would have received water baptism - also, just a quick comment - is there any clearer example of sharing in the sufferings of Christ than St. Dismas? Truly, given the choice, I’d take water baptism any day - but I’m sure that God can arrange it if you really, really want to be baptized in the Cross as St. Dismas was, instead); and Baptism of Blood, which is the martyrdom of Catechumens.

Both Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood presume that water baptism would have taken place in the reasonably near future, had the person lived.
 
Code: 
                 Originally Posted by **Montie Claunch**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1540547#post1540547)                 
             *I was talking to a gentleman on faith alone, as I said on a previous thread, and he stated that baptism wasn't necc. Saying that circumcision dosen't count as anything to Jesus (Gal. 5:6) and scince Baptism was the new circumsision (Col. 2:11,12), baptism isn't necc. How should I respond? Thanks and God bless.*
Click to expand...
VociMike said:
That kind of logic is exactly the same as saying that the Old Testament sacrifices “don’t count any more” so therefore Jesus’ New Testament Sacrifice doesn’t count either.
Click to expand...
You just hit the nail on the head regarding Typology. All the OT Typology points to the NT, but where the OT TYpe was incomplete, the NT Type shows the perfection or completion of the original.
  • Adam failed - Jesus succeeded.
  • The Manna fed them and they still died. The Eucharist feeds us and we have eternal life.
  • The OT Ark of the Covenant provided God a dwelling place with the Hebrews, but not in their hearts. The Ark of the New Covenant shows how Jesus can dwell within us.
  • Moses gaves us the Old Law, which didn’t save us. Jesus gave us the New Law which is written on our hearts.
 
montanaman said:
Right, allis, and ignore all of those verses showing the necessity of baptism. 👍 :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
1Co 1:17 -
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

There are certainly many more verses that mention salvation by grace thru faith and do not mention baptism. Baptism is certainly a command believers should obey to show what the Lord has done for them and to identify themsleves as believers.
 
NotWorthy said:
Read Acts, Chapter 2:37-38. During the Pentecost, after Peter’s sermon, Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

I would like to try and articulate what I am asking a little better. I know of the various scriptures used to support baptism as something salvific. What I am having trouble with is the opposing line of reasoning. If the opposing veiw is not taken care of what we would have is a contradiction which can not be. Could ya’ll help me with the opposing line of reasoning please? Thanks and God bless.
 
kaycee said:
1Co 1:17 -
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

There are certainly many more verses that mention salvation by grace thru faith and do not mention baptism. Baptism is certainly a command believers should obey to show what the Lord has done for them and to identify themsleves as believers.
Click to expand...
You may want to read John Chapter 3 again:John 3:5 - Jesus answered, "*Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
*
 
Montie_Claunch said:
Thank you.

What I am having trouble with is the opposing line of reasoning. If the opposing veiw is not taken care of what we would have is a contradiction which can not be. Could ya’ll help me with the opposing line of reasoning please? Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...
Read Post 19. Does this help?
 
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