No better than Osama Bin Laden?

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ryenski

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A friend of mine, a staunch Calvinist, recently had this to say on Facebook:
In the courtroom of God, I’m no better than Osama.
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I assume he’s talking about “total depravity” - is there an effective way to argue or enlighten this point of view?
 
Don’t know, but it’s certainly better tham celebrating the man’s death:)
 
Well, for one, Catholics believe that Baptism cleanses original sin, thus you cannot be subject to “total depravity”.

If you are not baptising to cleanse original sin, they what are you doing if for? To “save”?

Scripture states that it is to cleans one of sins and be born again in water and spirit. Basically, baptism frees you of original sin so this whole “total depravity” think is bogus.

Unless I’m misuderstanding something. 🤷

Now, if your fried means that we are all judge equally, then he is probably correct but a mass murderer isn’t likely looked on the same way as a saint entering the Kingdom. The notion is silly.
 
ryenski said:
A friend of mine, a staunch Calvinist, recently had this to say on Facebook:

I assume he’s talking about “total depravity” - is there an effective way to argue or enlighten this point of view?
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He’s condemning himself.Is he admitting his error?Why did he say it?
 
mcrow said:
Well, for one, Catholics believe that Baptism cleanses original sin, thus you cannot be subject to “total depravity”.

If you are not baptising to cleanse original sin, they what are you doing if for? To “save”?
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True - I guess this is where the major disconnect lies. My friend believes that baptism is a symbolic act done as a public profession of the inner transformation. As far as I understand “reformed” theology, baptism itself doesn’t actually do anything. In that line of thinking, justification means that our sins are “covered”, but the sinful man remains.
 
If your Calvinist friend has been properly baptized then he is definitely wrong.
 
ryenski said:
True - I guess this is where the major disconnect lies. My friend believes that baptism is a symbolic act done as a public profession of the inner transformation. As far as I understand “reformed” theology, baptism itself doesn’t actually do anything. In that line of thinking, justification means that our sins are “covered”, but the sinful man remains.
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Yes, that’s the issue. They don’t believe that baptism removes original sin while Catholics do. Everything is symbolic to them, while for us we believe in the true presence and that the baptism really does remove original sin.

It is interesting that they read the bible so literally and in such a fundamental way but when if comes to the sacraments everything is symbolic. 🤷
 
mcrow said:
Yes, that’s the issue. They don’t believe that baptism removes original sin while Catholics do. Everything is symbolic to them, while for us we believe in the true presence and that the baptism really does remove original sin.

It is interesting that they read the bible so literally and in such a fundamental way but when if comes to the sacraments everything is symbolic. 🤷
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Your last sentence hit the nail right on the head.
 
It also seems absurd to believe that one’s sins are equivalent to those of a mass murderer. I understand the point - that all sin separates us from Christ - but I don’t understand the logic of this.
 
ryenski said:
It also seems absurd to believe that one’s sins are equivalent to those of a mass murderer. I understand the point - that all sin separates us from Christ - but I don’t understand the logic of this.
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Could you perhaps ask your friend what he means? Then come back to the forum and let us know also. 🙂
 
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