No birth control? No fair!

[carn]

Birth regulation methods are, within marriage, a personal choice (condoms, NFP, birth control, IUD, etc…).

For catholics, no; see what other posters said.

Also, some “Birth regulation methods” actually work after conception, so after the moment a new living member of species human comes into existance; one should at least be aware about that; that happens especially with IUD but also with some pills; also the “morning after pill” probably has sometimes such effect (though scientifically its very hard to estimate exact relative weight of pre- and post-conception effects of such pills); with other birth control pills it is very unlikely and with condoms and NFP of course does not happen (note: in no way this should imply that some methods are ok or better or less evil; i just think its useful to know, when something might be deadly to humans).

You don’t have to have kids anyway if you don’t want too.

Intentionally not having any kids whatsoever in a catholic marriage would be a sin, unless something unusual like high chance for death for woman during pregnancy.

In Catholicism, popping out children is not a prerequisite to marriage, you just have to be open to them (meaning, if baby is concieved you don’t abort it).

Which would mean, you should be aware about effects of IUD, morning after pill and some birth control pills as they to differing degress have post-conception effects. But again the Church suggest to better never touch articficial contraceptives (which potentially some exceptions in case the sex strongly tends to the label “non consensual”; although there are differing opinions about that)

 

[josh987654321]

My parents had five children, They didn’t, nor did they need to, spend 32 years popping out kids.Did they have time for travel, vacation and romance in general? Yes, plenty of all of the above. Not always easy, but they worked it out.

Time to figure themselves out as a couple? Unless the intention is to never have kids, the husband and wife need to figure themselves out as a family and as parents, not just as a couple.

Do you honestly think a champagne lifestyle makes marriages happier? Or big houses or lots of vacations? Or that diapers or fewer children make someone less happy? By those standards, celebrity or billionaire couples should be absolutely ecstatic and their marriages all should last forever. We know that if anything is true, its the opposite.

Thank you for sharing this LillyM, I believe you make some good points. People need to hear of those who have done it, and have succeeded, to know it can be done and done well.

.

I hear what your saying, and there are even other dilemmas I know of which make it even more difficult (If not feeling like impossible) which you don’t face, and I know I can’t say what any couple should or shouldn’t do in regards to contraceptives because I am 24 and have not been married nor facing the prospect currently. I know what the Church teaches on the issue and I agree with the Church’s teachings on it.

So I don’t know how I will do when facing the same or similar prospect, but I can tell you one thing, I am looking for heroes, I am looking for people who can do it despite the obstacles, because people like myself and many others look around and can’t seem to see these couples (Heroes) today, worse still, along with it we see more cohabitating couples, more abortion, and more infidelity, Contraceptives have become a catastrophe, and with it, so has abortion, infidelity and sexual immorality, that’s a path I don’t want to go down and if I am to avoid it, I believe it demands a radical shift in what everyone else is doing and thinking on this.

I would encourage you to pray.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Irishmom2]

Although my username has a man’s name, I am female. Sorry for the confusion

My fiance and I have been engaged for six months and want to get married in June 2017. Oh, so have you attended your Pre-Cana classes or an Engaged encounter weekend yet? Many of the things that you mention will be covered in there. However, the only thing holding us back is the fear of having children too soon that we wouldn’t be able to provide for. Our worst nightmare is being one of those couples who gets pregnant on our honeymoon and spends the next 32 years of our lives popping out kids with no time whatsoever for travel, vacation, or romance in general. I am not sure you realize how juvenile and offensive this comment comes across to people reading this.

I am angry because other non-Catholic couples don’t have to worry about this: they just pop a pill or slip on a condom and have all the sex they want with no worries. They’re not punished with children before they even get their lives as a couple figured out. People are blessed to have children, and others are heartbroken that they are unable too. Perhaps you need to get your live figured out before you marry, and learn to filter what you say out loud in order to spare hurting infertile couples from your own selfishness.

I have tried learning NFP but it is just too complicated Really? and my diocese has no one to teach me. I don’t believe that at all. I also think that NFP places an unfair burden on the woman since the whole procedure of taking temperature, checking mucus (how gross), etc. all falls on her and her alone. Well, you are the one that would be carrying a baby, and medically responsible, so why wouldn’t it fall on you? Not that the Pill with all its side effects is any better for the woman (I would personally never take it) but even condoms place at least some of the responsibility on the man. Actually, it would place all of the responsibility on him, wouldn’t it?

I am tired of waiting to get married and I think it’s horribly unfair Again, that sounds like something someone in middle school says, not a grown woman contemplating marriage. that the Church forces Catholic couples to suffer the emotional and financial burden of children right off the bat, while their Protestant and non-Christian friends take vacations, build their dream homes, and sip champagne while looking down on the harried 25-year old Catholic mom who is changing 60 diapers a day. where are you getting your information from? Can someone please help me so I can make sense out of why the Church holds the position of no artificial birth control?

Thanks,
VicMorrow17

 

[adamhovey1988]

I find this greatly offensive as I was conceived while my mother was on contraceptives the problem is not with the Church. By the way, up until 1930 all Christians opposed contraception. I firmly believe that is what has led to Modern acceptance of abortion and there seems to be some evidence of that since one of the top reasons given for abortion is failed contraception because you oppose something in the Church’s teaching doesn’t make you righ.t The Church has been around for 2000 years and has always held this teaching and it’s not going to change soon or ever. Catholics didn’t cave in under Julian the apostate they didn’t cave in under the iconoclasts and they’re not going to cave in under the contraceptors

 

[AiyanaS]

For catholics, no; see what other posters said.

Also, some “Birth regulation methods” actually work after conception, so after the moment a new living member of species human comes into existance; one should at least be aware about that; that happens especially with IUD but also with some pills; also the “morning after pill” probably has sometimes such effect (though scientifically its very hard to estimate exact relative weight of pre- and post-conception effects of such pills); with other birth control pills it is very unlikely and with condoms and NFP of course does not happen (note: in no way this should imply that some methods are ok or better or less evil; i just think its useful to know, when something might be deadly to humans).

If an oops baby happens with IUD, or birth control or whatever method and it lives long enough for couple to know, like I said before, they must then except the life created and not abort it. If a baby results but dies before the couple learns of it, then as horrible as it sounds then obviously God never meant for that child to be born. Sure it makes zero sense and seems pointless but so are miscarriages, still borns, parasitic twins, etc…condoms also don’t have a effect pre or post birth, unless of course one or both parents are allergic to latex… There’s no less or more evil, for married couples it’s a choice. God helps those who help themselves and if a couple prays and feels very unsettled about NFP they have other alternatives. This doesn’t mean they don’t trust God, He gave us a brain and expects us to use it. Obviously if one has sex with no care they can easily end up with tons of kids. Every birth regulation method has failure rates, even NFP, especially NFP if a women’s body doesn’t work like it should (ex. PCOS)

Intentionally not having any kids whatsoever in a catholic marriage would be a sin, unless something unusual like high chance for death for woman during pregnancy.

Like I said before “Open to Life” refers to when a couple has actually concieved. It means accepting a baby that’s created and not aborting it. It does not mean every sex act must be directed towards procreating/or possibility of. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to have 10 kids without care or thought, some of us have terrible genetic diseases to worry about passing on.

Which would mean, you should be aware about effects of IUD, morning after pill and some birth control pills as they to differing degress have post-conception effects. But again the Church suggest to better never touch articficial contraceptives (which potentially some exceptions in case the sex strongly tends to the label “non consensual”; although there are differing opinions about that)

If a couple wants to avoid children, either indefinitely or for a time, that decision of how they will avoid is between them and God after much prayer, no one else.

 

[1ke]

Ok folks. A new member with one posts drops a big stink bomb on a controversial subject full of stereotypes and pejoratives, and then sets their status to “inactive member”.

I would say, “troll”.

Let’s not expend our energy unless the OP comes back and participates.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Catholics are NOT permitted to use condoms.
The OP identifies himself as Catholic, and came to a Catholic forum.
One would hope and expect he would receive Catholic advice.

Indeed, one cannot figure out why someone would be encouraging the sin of Onan

 

[Irishmom2]

Ok folks. A new member with one posts drops a big stink bomb on a controversial subject full of stereotypes and pejoratives, and then sets their status to “inactive member”.

I would say, “troll”.

Let’s not expend our energy unless the OP comes back and participates.

How can a member change their own status?

 

[josh987654321]

Ok folks. A new member with one posts drops a big stink bomb on a controversial subject full of stereotypes and pejoratives, and then sets their status to “inactive member”.

I would say, “troll”.

Let’s not expend our energy unless the OP comes back and participates.

I didn’t know you could change your status, I thought CAF automatically did it. Nevertheless, you don’t know whether she is a troll or not, and it’s a common issue, even if she were, answers here will no doubt help (or hinder) others.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[jediliz]

“Punished with children”—gee, where have I heard that before?

Planned parenthood…this probably is one of their mantras to push abortion.

And president Obama said “if one of my daughters make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a child.”

Children are a gift from God, not a punishment.

There are many different methods of NFP. And women are not fertile every day. God did design women to only be fertile a short time every month.

Plus, women are not fertile into old age.

 

[carn]

There’s no less or more evil, for married couples it’s a choice.
… This doesn’t mean they don’t trust God, He gave us a brain and expects us to use it.

Then please use it and give your opinion, whether there is a relevant moral difference between trying to avoid becoming pregnant by:

• using methods which keep sperm from reaching a ready egg
• using methods which disrupt implantation in the uterus wall of a living member of species human in its earliest stage of development, thereby guranteeing the death of any such living member of the species human.

It means accepting a baby that’s created and not aborting it.

The “baby” is created at conception; that happens before implantation, which is disrupted by IUD and some other methods.

It does not mean every sex act must be directed towards procreating/or possibility of. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to have 10 kids without care or thought, some of us have terrible genetic diseases to worry about passing on.

That is currently not the issue; the issue currently is that you seem to claim that methods working prior conception are morally exactly identical to those working after conception, which furthermore seemingly according to your words do not affect a “baby” that has been created, as that moment of “baby” creation apparently ("" around baby since i am a bit unsure, what exactly you mean) does not happen at conception but somehow later.

If a couple wants to avoid children, either indefinitely or for a time, that decision of how they will avoid is between them and God after much prayer, no one else.

Of course;
but just the same way its just a decision between me and God whether i head on sunday for Church or brothel; nonetheless, studying christian teaching and theology and carefully deliberating with avoiding unfair judgement any fellow christian is free to and i should actually welcome him to carefully try to advise me about my choice with a

“Heading for brothel does not sound like a good idea; there is a remote chance you might be tempted to sin, as often there are women there who might try to entice you to have sex with them; therefore i suggest you head to Church instead of brothel; besides missing mass because of hanging around brothel could theoretically also violate the third commandment even if you go there to just chat and even if you avoid other sins.”

Hence, there is nothing wrong to notify people considering various options of birth control, that some of them work by ensuring the death of a living member of species; that’s just like my fellow christian informing me about there being prostitutes in brothels, which might try to convince me to have sex with them, which might be a bit at odds with my sunday obligation if i end up there instead of in Mass; use the info however you see fit, but there is no reason to complain about being given the info.

 

[cjb_914]

If an oops baby happens with IUD, or birth control or whatever method and it lives long enough for couple to know, like I said before, they must then except the life created and not abort it. If a baby results but dies before the couple learns of it, then as horrible as it sounds then obviously God never meant for that child to be born. Sure it makes zero sense and seems pointless but so are miscarriages, still borns, parasitic twins, etc…condoms also don’t have a effect pre or post birth, unless of course one or both parents are allergic to latex… There’s no less or more evil, for married couples it’s a choice. God helps those who help themselves and if a couple prays and feels very unsettled about NFP they have other alternatives. This doesn’t mean they don’t trust God, He gave us a brain and expects us to use it. Obviously if one has sex with no care they can easily end up with tons of kids. Every birth regulation method has failure rates, even NFP, especially NFP if a women’s body doesn’t work like it should (ex. PCOS)

Like I said before “Open to Life” refers to when a couple has actually concieved. It means accepting a baby that’s created and not aborting it. It does not mean every sex act must be directed towards procreating/or possibility of. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to have 10 kids without care or thought, some of us have terrible genetic diseases to worry about passing on.

If a couple wants to avoid children, either indefinitely or for a time, that decision of how they will avoid is between them and God after much prayer, no one else.

Artificial birth control is not a valid means to avoid Children. God doesn’t “help those who help themselves”, He leaves them to it. Eternally if they so desire. If you have a serious genetic defect you want to avoid, you might consider not getting married as, indeed, marriage is ordered to the procreation and raising of children.

The decision of if and how they avoid IS between them and God, yes. But we can inform them of the licit means by which they may do so, that way they do not have the grave matter of a serious sin on their soul as they go before God to discuss their lives. A sin is a sin, and no amount of prayer, or discernment, or good feelings can change that and it is really easy to confuse OUR will for God’s will. We will have to answer for our sins and, to a greater extent than many realize, we will be called to account for those we led astray by our poor or wrong teaching.

 

[goout]

Ok folks. A new member with one posts drops a big stink bomb on a controversial subject full of stereotypes and pejoratives, and then sets their status to “inactive member”.

I would say, “troll”.

Let’s not expend our energy unless the OP comes back and participates.

This.
The OP is gone but that won’t stop a repetitive argument from taking place.
When the OP used the phrase “burdened with children” he/she lost all credibility.
Troll.

 

[Operalan]

Planned parenthood…this probably is one of their mantras to push abortion.

And president Obama said “if one of my daughters make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a child.”

Children are a gift from God, not a punishment.

There are many different methods of NFP. And women are not fertile every day. God did design women to only be fertile a short time every month.

Plus, women are not fertile into old age.

Exactly.

 

[Irishmom2]

This.
The OP is gone but that won’t stop a repetitive argument from taking place.
When the OP used the phrase “burdened with children” he/she lost all credibility.
Troll.

So, because someone hasn’t answered in less than 24 hours that makes them a troll? Not everyone stays around after posting a thread awaiting an instant answer. I don’t think that is fair, even if I disagree with the OP.

 

[Garyjohn2]

For NFP, I take my wife’s temperature every morning and keep track of the chart – if that help’s at all.

It doesn’t have to be all on the woman. My wife has as little to do with it as possible.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

Although my username has a man’s name, I am female. Sorry for the confusion

My fiance and I have been engaged for six months and want to get married in June 2017. However, the only thing holding us back is the fear of having children too soon that we wouldn’t be able to provide for. Our worst nightmare is being one of those couples who gets pregnant on our honeymoon and spends the next 32 years of our lives popping out kids with no time whatsoever for travel, vacation, or romance in general.

I am angry because other non-Catholic couples don’t have to worry about this: they just pop a pill or slip on a condom and have all the sex they want with no worries. They’re not punished with children before they even get their lives as a couple figured out.

I have tried learning NFP but it is just too complicated and my diocese has no one to teach me. I also think that NFP places an unfair burden on the woman since the whole procedure of taking temperature, checking mucus (how gross), etc. all falls on her and her alone. Not that the Pill with all its side effects is any better for the woman (I would personally never take it) but even condoms place at least some of the responsibility on the man.

I am tired of waiting to get married and I think it’s horribly unfair that the Church forces Catholic couples to suffer the emotional and financial burden of children right off the bat, while their Protestant and non-Christian friends take vacations, build their dream homes, and sip champagne while looking down on the harried 25-year old Catholic mom who is changing 60 diapers a day. Can someone please help me so I can make sense out of why the Church holds the position of no artificial birth control?

Thanks,
VicMorrow17

First of all, if you plan on marrying in the Church, you will be required to go through some kind of marriage prep. What program it is varies from diocese to diocese and even from priest to priest. It should cover NFP- not just the technicality, but the theological reasons behind it. Your view of children is a little disturbing. I hope that it’s in frustration that your views are shown as this on here and not coming from a place deep within. If so, I would seriously question your reasons for getting married. Marriage is more than globe-trekking, spa-hoping, and champagne sipping. It’s about being there when a spouse loses a job, a parent dies, a child becomes ill or dies. It’s about holding your spouse while they go thru chemo, depression, infertility, etc. You seem to have a "bridal magazine, pinterest-view of marriage and it appears you don’t want to accept the reality of things. You are Catholic and that sets you apart from your Protestant and non-Christian friends when it comes to being open to children. You really need to speak with your priest about your concerns. You also could start reading some good Catholic books on marriage, because from your post, it sounds like you don’t want to accept that marriage is anymore than living the good life of the rich and famous.

 

[e_c]

Trips and champagne and lots o’ fun are great until you are old and lonely. If you have a bunch of kids, you are less likely to die alone. That’s reality.

Only the sickest kind of person regrets having a child, while plenty of normal people regret not having more children.

 

[Bookcat]

Marriage and family is about gift.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism

www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1638