No brats allowed!

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A long time ago, it was expected that if children were in public environments, they would behave. It was also expected that if they didn’t, their parents or whoever had charge of them would be POLITELY told to remove them. It was also expected that if an adult misbehaved, management would politely ask them if perhaps they preferred other accomodations.

We went through a period in this country where kids were the be-all-and-end-all when they were in public, because parents had so few of them (GO BIG FAMILIES!), and because parents were having them so late in life.

What to do? Management needs to help the “help” realize that not every child is badly behaved simply by virtue of being a child- and how to effectively eject brats (there is a way). Parents need to realize that it might have taken three infertility clinics and a ton of money to “make” their little darling, but not everybody appreciates a brat. Parents also need to realize that there are some circumstances where Petunia or Junior is not welcome, and get a sitter or stay home. I’ve seen poor little kids dragged to fancy restaurants, stage plays, and other forms of adult recreation the child was not quite ready to indulge. Two year old at the “Nutcracker” so Mommy can say she’s cute in a red Christmas dress? Don’t think so.
 
Yes, so cute in that red dress, as she’s screaming tears of painful boredom.

You can’t “ban unruly children” because it makes it sound like there is a species of children called “unruly.”

All children are unruly, at times. All children are also well-behaved, at times.

When they are being unruly, they can’t be in public. This means that their parent or caregiver has to remove them.

I saw a beautiful scene one time when I was out at Dairy Queen (I was on a road trip and I was getting some lunch.)

The family sat down with their hamburgers, and the little kid started to act up. He wanted ice cream instead of a hamburger.

First, Dad said to him, “If you still have room for ice cream after you have eaten your hamburger, then you may do that.”

But the kid kept whining. So the Mom said, “Eat your burger. But because you are whining, you will not be having ice cream afterwards.” Dad agreed with that.

Then he threw his hamburger on the floor.

Mom and Dad both got up (I think they must have discussed this situation in advance) and quietly said, “We can’t be here any more. We have to go home.” They picked up his hamburger off the floor and threw it away. And they picked him up, and they went home.

As they were going out the door, I heard the Mom say to the kid, “We can’t be at Dairy Queen if you can’t behave yourself.”

Of course by this time the kid was wailing his head off like he was being tortured, but they did not give in. I’m sure he wailed all the way home, and wailed when they put him in his room - but some day very soon, that kid is going to know how to behave himself at Dairy Queen, because his parents have a plan, and they follow their plan.

He’ll probably be the only three year old in the whole place who knows how to say, “Daddy, thank you so much for the tasty hamburger. Do you think we could also have some ice cream afterwards, please?”
 
I have wondered for a while now how my parents generation knew how to parent (I’m generalizing, I know) and the younger generarion doesn’t. My 4 brothers and I were born between 1961 and 1970. We were disciplined, expected to behave in stores, restaurants, church etc. Now kids are allowed to run wild. Many parents can’t seem to say ‘no’ and make all kinds of excuses for kids behavior.

When my kids were younger and saw other kids run wild, speak disrespectfully or get yelled at by parents, I’d say nicely, “Aren’t you glad we don’t let you act like that?” Even now, when they meet spoiled teens, I say something similar 🙂 —KCT
 
I don’t see how they can enforce such a rule?

Even the most well-behaved child is going to slip up every now and then. What are they, pets to be controlled?

I got an attitude from the article that children are just a nuisance and grievance.
 
KCT said:
I have wondered for a while now how my parents generation knew how to parent (I’m generalizing, I know) and the younger generarion doesn’t.
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Probably because they were in the same city or even the same neighborhood as the grandparents. A little experience goes a long way. I remember as a kid being taken to Grandma’s quite frequently. My mother learned how to parent me by watching her mother (my grandmother) work with me. What we learned at Grandma’s was continued at home.

Nowadays people are lucky if they live on the same continent as their kids’ grandparents.
 
It’s a tough issue. Even the best behaved children have tantrums sometimes, and that’s not the parents fault. I work at a supermarket and I see kids have fits all the time…no big deal. But some are clearly just spoiled brats and that’s the parents’ fault. It can be hard to tell whether it’s going to be a one time thing or whether the kid will always be disruptive. Also, there are some places kids don’t belong. I’m in an orchestra and people always bring small children, who end up screaming and have to be taken out. Do infants want to be quiet and listen to violins for 2 hours? No.
 
The article seemed to complain about children all around. The example of the child in the children’s section w/toys at the book store, the woman complaining she couldn’t do work on the airplane because of kids, or strollers in muesums.

You expect children to make noise in these situations!

We don’t bring children to places in which we know that they will be bored, we only go to family friendly restraurants. I have to admit if I’m paying 20 plus dollars for an entree at an upscale place I wouldn’t want normal child behavior. We tell our children what to expect, i.e. only going to into a store to pick up a prescription so they know beforehand not to ask for candy or ice cream. Or on the positive side say that we are going to for ice cream, but only after finishing lunch prior to even going out.
 
I saw that some one used “breeders” in the article. Isn’t that the new derogatory terms for parnents?

PF
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, so cute in that red dress, as she’s screaming tears of painful boredom.

You can’t “ban unruly children” because it makes it sound like there is a species of children called “unruly.”

All children are unruly, at times. All children are also well-behaved, at times.

When they are being unruly, they can’t be in public. This means that their parent or caregiver has to remove them.

I saw a beautiful scene one time when I was out at Dairy Queen (I was on a road trip and I was getting some lunch.)

The family sat down with their hamburgers, and the little kid started to act up. He wanted ice cream instead of a hamburger.

First, Dad said to him, “If you still have room for ice cream after you have eaten your hamburger, then you may do that.”

But the kid kept whining. So the Mom said, “Eat your burger. But because you are whining, you will not be having ice cream afterwards.” Dad agreed with that.

Then he threw his hamburger on the floor.

Mom and Dad both got up (I think they must have discussed this situation in advance) and quietly said, “We can’t be here any more. We have to go home.” They picked up his hamburger off the floor and threw it away. And they picked him up, and they went home.

As they were going out the door, I heard the Mom say to the kid, “We can’t be at Dairy Queen if you can’t behave yourself.”

Of course by this time the kid was wailing his head off like he was being tortured, but they did not give in. I’m sure he wailed all the way home, and wailed when they put him in his room - but some day very soon, that kid is going to know how to behave himself at Dairy Queen, because his parents have a plan, and they follow their plan.

He’ll probably be the only three year old in the whole place who knows how to say, “Daddy, thank you so much for the tasty hamburger. Do you think we could also have some ice cream afterwards, please?”
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Exactly! That’s how my parents dealt with me. So often at my work I see people give into their kids just to shut them up and they never learn. You have to follow through on punishments. It’s what I’d do with my kids.
 
jmcrae said:
…Of course by this time the kid was wailing his head off like he was being tortured, but they did not give in. I’m sure he wailed all the way home, and wailed when they put him in his room - but some day very soon, that kid is going to know how to behave himself at Dairy Queen, because his parents have a plan, and they follow their plan.

He’ll probably be the only three year old in the whole place who knows how to say, “Daddy, thank you so much for the tasty hamburger. Do you think we could also have some ice cream afterwards, please?”
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What wonderful parents! May they blessed with a bunch of them, because that’s the way to do it!👍
 
hi there,

yes i’m also shocked at the way kids (in particular young teens) behave these days. i actually find larger groups of them quite intimidating.

it comes from all this political correct nonsense and no one will stand up and put a stop to it! how can this downslide in manners be halted if our politicans don’t take a stand?

i think that’s why simon callow (pop idol, american idol) is so popular. he’s the first person for a long time to actually tell ‘brats’ what’s what! 😛
 
WanderAimlessly said:
I saw that some one used “breeders” in the article. Isn’t that the new derogatory terms for parnents?

PF
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Yes, I thought that was tacky and rude, considering the woman was from some natural foods place. What, kids aren’t natural enough for ya, lady?😉
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
Management needs to help the “help” realize that not every child is badly behaved simply by virtue of being a child- and how to effectively eject brats (there is a way).
**hear! hear! **

Parents also need to realize that there are some circumstances where Petunia or Junior is not welcome, and get a sitter or stay home.
**I agree! **
I’ve seen poor little kids dragged to fancy restaurants, stage plays, and other forms of adult recreation the child was not quite ready to indulge. Two year old at the “Nutcracker”
sigh you were doing so well and then you ruined it at the end. What determines whether a child should be is the parent’s realistic knowledge of their own kid, not your opinion based on every other kid. We do take our children to very fancy restaurants and stage plays and have never given much thought to it. If a kid has enough attention span to go nearly brain dead in front of a tv or movie theatre for a couple of hours, they can darn well behave at a fancy resturant or stage play.
Frankly, I think the adults are a bigger pain in the bum. In my personal experience, the behavior of any children is a direct reflection of the manners exhibited by the adults they are with, or the lack of them more often.
**This also applies to me. When my dc have been their worse in such situations - it was at least half my fault. Late nap, forgot a drink, ect… That’s where the realistic view needs to be used. Sometimes you just know it’s not goign according to plan and it’s time to scrap the plan for everyone’s sake. **
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All that said…
**There were several opinions in the article I agreed with. Adults are becomming just as braty. And it’s not right to equate a “good” with “quite”. And it is very hard to take any child anywhere these days. It doesn’t matter how good they are - many places just don’t them and it shows.😦 **
**What I didn’t agree with was the attitude that truely good child behavior is unreasonable to expect. For example, a toddler has no excuse for throwing his food - no matter where they eat. Now, a spill or maybe the occassional cracker, but not food throwing. :eek: “Activities and toys” at the dinner table? Absolutely not! It’s time to eat, not play. No wonder they want to play with their food! I don’t buy the line that children must be forever entertained or they’ll… I don’t know explode or something.:confused: **
 
I think there are places that parents should not take children. You cannot have general rules that apply to all children though because every kid has a different upbringing. My children love to go to bookstores and are very well behaved. They each get to pick out one book unless they to act up. There are other places where they are bored to tears. As the parent, it is up to me to know what their attention spans and interests are and plan accordingly.

If I need to go some place in a hurry, I don’t take the kids because they like to stop and smell the roses. I see nothing wrong with that because we should all slow down a bit. I went out with my dad the other day and he took his own sweet time looking at things. He wasn’t in a hurry and didn’t get bent out of shape. It reminded me to slow down and take a deep breath from time to time. I went everywhere with him when I was a kid and I don’t remember ever having any problems. He never yelled at me and he talked to me like he would anybody else. If I was hungry or thirsty, I told him and he took care of it. If I was tired, I curled up in the car or wherever we were and went to sleep. If I was bored, I entertained myself by playing with whatever was at my disposal.

If I was with my mom, that was a different story because she never listened to anybody and the only way to get her attention was/is to act like a jerk. Kids learn really quick how to go about getting their needs met.

Too many kids these days don’t know how to entertain themselves. They have no imagination and are unable to make decisions for themselves. My nephew recently went to visit my mother-in-law and she was complaining because he didn’t have much of an opinion about anything. She had left things open so that he could pick out things that he liked to do but he was unable to do that because his time at home is so filled with school, extra-curricular activities likes sports, and basically whatever his mother tells him to do. When she doesn’t have his time planned he is on the computer. He got snotty with my mother-in-law because she put a stop to him messing with her computer and required that he entertain himself. He has no idea how to entertain himself. We went on an outing with my nephew’s family one time and it was the most horrendous experience in the world. The brattiness of those kids is directly proportional to how bratty, spoiled, and horrible their mother is. I shudder even thinking about it.

I agree with the poster that said most of the brattiness is the fault of the parent. I have no problems taking my children places if I make sure they are well fed and well rested. A hungry or tired child equals instant problems with my little ones. It is up to me as a parent to make sure they have all of their needs met, but that does not mean that I should cater to their every whim either. Something that is overlooked is the fact that the parent should also be well-rested and well-fed when going on an outing with the kids. A tired and hungry parent often leads to parents getting bent out of shape and causing unnessary tension. Kids always pick up on that sort of thing. The worse mood I am in, the worse my kids act.

Okay, enough rambling.
 
hasikelee said:
I don’t see how they can enforce such a rule?

Even the most well-behaved child is going to slip up every now and then. What are they, pets to be controlled?

I got an attitude from the article that children are just a nuisance and grievance.
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Perhaps they’re not, but any impartial observer of children and the conduct currently permitted them in public couldn’t be blamed for thinking so. If such attitudes toward children have become common, perhaps it’s not so much coldheartedness as it is the handiwork of parents (including many Catholic parents) who have abandoned large parts of their duties en masse.

Is controlling a child’s behaviour tantamount to treating him like a pet? We feed our pets and teach them where and where not to eliminate, so perhaps children should be exempt from these humiliating condescensions, as well. In a few households, no doubt, they are.
 
Let’s remember that it’s sometimes hard for a stranger to distinguish between a spoiled brat and a child with some sort of disorder. I have a friend whose son has Tourette’s. He was struggling to sit still in church, but his face was undergoing all sorts of tics that he couldn’t control.

A lady sitting nearby decided that he was making faces and reprimanded my friend after Mass for his bad behavior. My friend explained that he has Tourette’s Syndrome, and wasn’t being bad. The lady responded “It’s nothing that a good spanking wouldn’t cure.”

Other examples: a woman with a recently adopted son from Russia. Parents with autistic children. Or a mother with an alcoholic husband who lives in abuse and poverty, and who hasn’t had the mental energy to raise her child consistently. Or just a child born “difficult”–his mother may have worked ten times as hard as you have to get her child to behave half as well as yours. I myself have six kids who behave like angels in public, and one squirmer.

I’m saying that a stranger doesn’t usually have the necessary knowledge to judge the kid as “bratty.” Parents should not take disruptive children–no matter why they’re disruptive–to certain places if they can help it, but unless you want to imprison the child and his mother at home, there are places unruly kids need to go.
 
with my mom in a neighborhood family restaurant one afternoon, and the family in the next booth was having a tough time with their kids. the little girl of about 3 kept jumping up on my mother’s seat, even grabbing her hair, screaming, carrying on in general. My mom turned around, smiled and said, Hi, sweetie, are you having a rough day?

the mom got very indignant and told my mother: we never correct her, we want her to be free to express her personality at all times. My mother said, I will be praying for you when that child turns 16.
 
Le_Cracquere said:
Perhaps they’re not, but any impartial observer of children and the conduct currently permitted them in public couldn’t be blamed for thinking so. If such attitudes toward children have become common, perhaps it’s not so much coldheartedness as it is the handiwork of parents (including many Catholic parents) who have abandoned large parts of their duties en masse.

Then put the blame where it goes - the parent. I don’t get mad at a misbehaving kid most of the time. I do get mighty ticked at the parent who knows it and does nothing to correct it.

Is controlling a child’s behaviour tantamount to treating him like a pet?
**Yes. Children cannot be “controlled” and they cannot be “trained”. Trust me, if only I could do that life would be a good deal easier!😃 **
Children can be educated. The conscience of a child can be formed. But we are all born flawed and with freewill. Which means we all make mistakes, have bad momnets (or days/weeks/years!), and we all need a wee bit of forgiveness and compassion. Children being younger and parents bearing the entire burden - well, would it hurt to give them just a bit more of either?
The poster wasn’t saying let the kids go nuts. She was saying that even normally well-behaved dc have their less angelic moments. Rather than assuming who they (parent/child) are based on those bad moments, maybe offerring the benefit of the doubt wouldn’t hurt.
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I find the longer I’ve been parenting the less critical I am of others. If for no other reason than I hope they give me the same attitude when we’re having a bad time and it shows.

I love this joke…
God only had 2 kids and they didn’t mind Him either! 😉
**It comforts me to know that even if I was a perfect parent (as He certainly is) able to design my own children, it still wouldn’t guarantee me a well-behaved and obediant kid!😃 **
 
It certianly dosn’t help that when I do correct my child and someone overhears they Correct ME in front of her. This is getting more and more common. It’s not like I yell and make a scene in pulic either. Some examples:
We are at a park. It’s cold outside and Sami removed her coat. I told her to put it back on because it’s too cold out and I didn’t want her to get sick. Another mom comes up and tells me I’m too “Authoritarian” That if I’d have let her go without out sheowould eventually figure out why coats are needed!

In a family restaurant, Sami spoke very disrespectfully to me and then started whining. I tell her if she can’t speak nicely we will have to leave. The People at the next table turn around and announce my daughter is very well behaved and I shouldn’t correct her.

My mother does this alot too. “She’s little, let her do it!”

It’s as if people have no idea how to raise kids. They see me and say in one breath that my kid is well behaved but I am definatly parenting wrong and they wonder why their kid is a brat.

How do these people think my child GOT well-behaved in the first place?? They have to be taught to be that way!
 
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