A
ADiosgracias
Guest
What is the correct way to call people who took the initiation sacraments and never again go to church or pray. They use to call themselves catholic but I think is a bad example and they don’t represent us.
- Status
H
Hesychios
Guest
If they do not believe Christian teachings, perhaps lost their faith somewhere along the line or joinred a no-Christian belief system (Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu) I guess the term apostate would be appropriate.
If they are still Christians, but not Roman Catholics I quess you could refer to them as whatever they now believe, or as unchurched.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
they will self-identify so go by what they say. If you have been given the gift of reading souls so you know what is in their hearts, you are free to judge further.
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Garyjohn2
Guest
They are Catholics. Whoever has followed their faith absolutely perfectly may throw the first stone.
Poor Catholics are still Catholics.
Poor Catholics are still Catholics.
M
Mumbles140
Guest
In the eyes of the Church, if they were baptized Catholic, then they are held Catholic. Out of respect, you should refer to their beliefs as whatever they proclaim them to be.
N
nickybr38
Guest
你中人馬?
Back on topic. If I understand correctly from another thread on CAF, one is always Catholic. Once you are baptized Catholic that’s it. Personally I would call someone who took the initiation sacraments and did not return a non-practicing Catholic.
However, I would use caution. Sometimes a person appears to ‘disappear’ from the parish when in fact they are busy people who attend Mass at other parishes. So I wouldn’t just call someone non-practicing because I don’t see them at my parish anymore.
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Stylites
Guest
Congrats on your upcoming wedding!
S
SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
They are Catholics in need of our love, our prayers, and our evangelization.
C
Carlan
Guest
yes, they are called nominal Catholics. “We must never say Never”, the famous last words.
How can we judge the number of death bed conversions. That’s God’s call! We pray. Peace, Carlan
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ADiosgracias
Guest
It was a misunderstand . I’m not condemn or judge them. But if i proclaim myself as a Catholic and do the opposite, other people can think that Catholics are hypocrites.
So may be we can correct them and call them ex catholic.And pray for the come back
So may be we can correct them and call them ex catholic.And pray for the come back
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Carlan
Guest
Understood!
Peace, Carlan
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CMatt25
Guest
:clapping: While it’s not always the case, if they have been baptized etc and identify as a Catholic then this is at least how they should be identified.
And as Garyjohn2 said, “They are Catholics. Whoever has followed their faith absolutely perfectly may throw the first stone. Poor Catholics are still Catholics.”
And as Mumbles 140 said, “In the eyes of the Church, if they were baptized Catholic, then they are held Catholic. Out of respect, you should refer to their beliefs as whatever they proclaim them to be.”
C
CMatt25
Guest
Well no it seems if you read what others have said here and Church teaching, no you can not call them ex Catholics. If you want to follow Church teaching and if the Church calls them Catholics. In any case God bless you on your faith journey and peace.
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guanophore
Guest
You are absolutely right. Such persons, who claim to be Catholic, yet openly reject the Teachings of the Church do give great scandal to the faith. This can be pointed out to them. They may be lapsed Catholics, fallen away Catholics, non-practicing (Catholic by culture only) or Catholics living in sin.
You are right that we cannot condem or judge them, but we certainly can judge them by their fruits. Bad trees cannot bear good fruit.
It is important to correct them, in love, educate, evangelize and strongly encourage them not to claim they are Catholic when they have lost Catholicity because of the great disrespect to Christ it causes.
C
CMatt25
Guest
Guan as you know it is not only “such persons” but the Catholic Church Herself who claims them to be. So for someone who claims to be more faithful to then encourage another not to claim to be Catholic, when the Church Herself claims them to be, seems to me to put the one proclaiming to be more faithful also at odds with the Church they claim to follow. It appears to me they themselves then have a problem with Church teaching too. In other words the person claiming to be more faithful doesn’t like or agree that the Church claims someone less faithful also as a Catholic.
That’s what I meant by they should be identified as a Catholic (even by those who follow Church teaching) but it is not always the case that they are.
G
guanophore
Guest
No, CM, the CC only proclaims Truth, she does not make “claims”. One who has been baptized into the Body has an indelible seal.
That seal, however, does not prevent the person from excommunicated themselves by engaging in behaviors that automatically incur this consequence, nor does it prevent them from becoming heretics, schismatics, Protestants etc, etc.
For many years I was a Protestant that had been baptized as a Catholic. I was a much better Protestant than I was ever a Catholic. But I did not identify myself as Catholic because I was ashamed of what I thought CAtholicism was.
It is not those who cling to the teachings of the faith that are causing scandals, CM, but those who have departed from them. Persons who live in sin and call themselves CAtholic bring disgrace upon the Church.
As you are fond of saying, we know them by their fruits. The vast majority of American Catholics who were baptized in infancy do not espouse the Teachings of the Church. That is the reason that this country is in the mess that it is today. There has been a failure to be light and salt to the world. And how can one season or dispel darkness when one is not connected to the Vine?It appears to me they themselves then have a problem with Church teaching too. In other words the person claiming to be more faithful doesn’t like or agree that the Church claims someone less faithful also as a Catholic.
Jude 10-13
11 Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error, and perish in Korah’s rebellion. 12 These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved for ever.
I certainly would not want to showcase the fact that someone is an excommunicated Catholic, lapsed, or otherwise a rebellious subject of the Roman Pontiff. It would be better to treat them as a tax collector.
C
CMatt25
Guest
Guan I don’t know whether you actually officially joined a Protestant church or not. It’s not important to me. The point being if you did not, certainly what you chose to identify yourself as was your choice. But remember in such a case the Church never would have stopped identifying you as a Catholic.No, CM, the CC only proclaims Truth, she does not make “claims”. One who has been baptized into the Body has an indelible seal.
That seal, however, does not prevent the person from excommunicated themselves by engaging in behaviors that automatically incur this consequence, nor does it prevent them from becoming heretics, schismatics, Protestants etc, etc.
For many years I was a Protestant that had been baptized as a Catholic. I was a much better Protestant than I was ever a Catholic. But I did not identify myself as Catholic because I was ashamed of what I thought CAtholicism was.
It is not those who cling to the teachings of the faith that are causing scandals, CM, but those who have departed from them. Persons who live in sin and call themselves CAtholic bring disgrace upon the Church.
As you are fond of saying, we know them by their fruits. The vast majority of American Catholics who were baptized in infancy do not espouse the Teachings of the Church. That is the reason that this country is in the mess that it is today. There has been a failure to be light and salt to the world. And how can one season or dispel darkness when one is not connected to the Vine?
Jude 10-13
11 Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error, and perish in Korah’s rebellion. 12 These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars for whom the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved for ever.
I certainly would not want to showcase the fact that someone is an excommunicated Catholic, lapsed, or otherwise a rebellious subject of the Roman Pontiff. It would be better to treat them as a tax collector.
I think when those who proclaim themselves to be more faithful Catholics start demanding others to not identify as Catholics, not only is it against their Church’s teaching but it can have the greater effect of pushing the less faithful even further away. Trust me on that one.
But sonewhere in all of this I do think I saw where you do you confess even excommunicated Catholics are Catholics.
So
to that and God Guan along your journey and peace be with you always.
G
guanophore
Guest
And what benefit would it have been to me, CM?
2 Peter 2:17-22
17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved. 18 For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.
Will calling myself “Catholic” do me much good down there in the mire?
If a person feels “pushed away” then it is because their soul is already perishing.
2 Cor 2:14-17
14 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumph, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word; but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.
A faithful Catholic will always be stench in the nostrils of one who is not.
And such a one can call himself “catholic” while he is being spit out!But sonewhere in all of this I do think I saw where you do you confess even excommunicated Catholics are Catholics.
Rev 3:15-17
15 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.
I think what Paul says about Jews can be as well said for Catholics.
Rom 2:25-3:1
25 Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. 29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.
It might read like this:
25 Catholic baptism is indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your baptism becomes “better for him had he never been born” … 28 For he is not a real Catholic who is one outwardly, nor is true Catholic Baptism something external and physical. 29 He is a Baptized Catholic who is one inwardly, and real baptism is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.
D
Deconi
Guest
Once baptized as a Catholic, you are Catholic for life!
Whether you’re a good Catholic or bad Catholic, is not another Catholic’s business! That call belongs Elsewhere!
Two Catholics can argue and ‘rebuke’ the other to ‘his face’ as they agree and disagree about matters Catholic; but NEVER speak of another’s Catholicism to a third party!
That’s called gossiping and requires a ‘judgement’ standpoint, which is a no-no.
Whether you’re a good Catholic or bad Catholic, is not another Catholic’s business! That call belongs Elsewhere!
Two Catholics can argue and ‘rebuke’ the other to ‘his face’ as they agree and disagree about matters Catholic; but NEVER speak of another’s Catholicism to a third party!
That’s called gossiping and requires a ‘judgement’ standpoint, which is a no-no.
C
Carlan
Guest
Fair enough! Fellas,Once baptized as a Catholic, you are Catholic for life!
Whether you’re a good Catholic or bad Catholic, is not another Catholic’s business! That call belongs Elsewhere!
Two Catholics can argue and ‘rebuke’ the other to ‘his face’ as they agree and disagree about matters Catholic; but NEVER speak of another’s Catholicism to a third party!
That’s called gossiping and requires a ‘judgement’ standpoint, which is a no-no.
Peace, Carlan- Status