No catholic anymore

[guanophore]

Guan, there is no question to ask as to what to call them,

If you think I misunderstood the OP, perhaps you can correct me? It seems clear to me that the person is not seeing what he thinks ought to define a Catholic, and wonders, if such a person does not fulfill what it is to be Catholic, what are they to be called?

  if as others have explained, someone follows all the teachings of the Church.  The Church gives an easy answer to the question.  As others have attested to, "In the eyes of the Church, if they were baptized Catholic, then they are held Catholic".  It just still amazes me that this is discussed as much as it is here by Catholics faithfully following the teachings.  Peace.

I think it is discussed here for the same reason Paul discussed what makes a “real Jew”. When one claims to be Catholic, yet rejects the Teachings of the Church, it causes confusion.

 

[CMatt25]

If you think I misunderstood the OP, perhaps you can correct me? It seems clear to me that the person is not seeing what he thinks ought to define a Catholic, and wonders, if such a person does not fulfill what it is to be Catholic, what are they to be called?

I think it is discussed here for the same reason Paul discussed what makes a “real Jew”. When one claims to be Catholic, yet rejects the Teachings of the Church, it causes confusion.

Hi Guan, we are once again going in circles. I believe they should be called what they are defined by the Church. I believe I have brought this up to you before. If you feel someone by calling themselves a Catholic according to teaching of the Church causes confusion, then it sounds to me you might prefer the Church not define a Catholic as She does. But if that is the case, you would need to take your objection to someone other than to me.

You have previously seemed to object to my use of faithful and less faithful unless I misunderstood you. Though you too used the term faithful in comparision to those not. I know a bishop once told me there are practicing and non-practicing. But all are Catholics. There are a lot of terms used as adjectives nowadays it seems. I have multiple times tried to get definitions for these various descriptions to no avail. What I primarily object to is when the term Catholic is placed in quotation marks which makes it appear someone is saying another is not Catholic. Or when I see people saying such and such a person is not or can not be a Catholic or identify as one when they have been baptized or even often times more, and are.

Peace to you Guan.

 

[guanophore]

Hi Guan, we are once again going in circles.  I believe they should be called what they are defined by the Church.  :shrug:

Don’t you think this point was made clear to the OP in the thread?

I believe I have brought this up to you before.  If you feel someone by calling themselves a Catholic according to teaching of the Church causes confusion, then it sounds to me you might prefer the Church not define a Catholic as She does.  But if that is the case, you would need to take your objection to someone other than to me.

My objection is not with the Church, but those who claim to embrace her teachings, yet in practice do the opposite. They specifically engage in actions the Church teaches are mortal sins, or they support such actions. It does not appear to me that the OP has observed this, at least, the OP does not indicate as such.

 You have previously seemed to object to my use of faithful and less faithful unless I misunderstood you.  Though you too used the term faithful in comparision to those not.

I shall endeavor to avoid doing so in the future.

 I know a bishop once told me there are practicing and non-practicing.  But all are Catholics.  There are a lot of terms used as adjectives nowadays it seems.

Because of the scandals.

I have multiple times tried to get definitions for these various descriptions to no avail.  What I primarily object to is when the term Catholic is placed in quotation marks which makes it appear someone is saying another is not Catholic.

When a person behaves in a manner contrary to Catholicity, it appears they are not Catholic.

 Or when I see people saying such and such a person is not or can not be a Catholic or identify as one when they have been baptized or even often times more, and are.

Yes, this seems to be quite a long stretch. It is not within our purview to judge the hearts of others. However, we are responsible to discern behavior, and respond accordingly. Pretending that people espouse Catholic faith when their actions, attitudes, and expressions are directly contrary to the teaching of the Church is to participate in their sins.

 

[CMatt25]

Don’t you think this point was made clear to the OP in the thread?

My objection is not with the Church, but those who claim to embrace her teachings, yet in practice do the opposite.

Because of the scandals.

I hope it has been Guan.

Guan, when a person claims the term Catholic as the Church allows, it does not necessarily mean they are claiming to embrace all teachings.

I’m not sure what the scandals have to do with this. Labels existed long before the scandals came to the forefront.

Peace Guan and now you know I have read your posts here and on other threads.

 

[Esdra]

What is the correct way to call people who took the initiation sacraments and never again go to church or pray. They use to call themselves catholic but I think is a bad example and they don’t represent us.

I was such a “Catholic” once. **I used to call myself “non-denominatinal Christian” **(konfessionsloser Christ).
Without knowing at that time (8 years ago) that this term marks actually what I was looking for and I believe to have found (after a long time of private Bible studies) in the Baptist Church: a “bible believing, ancient christian community as it is discribed in the Holy Bible.” - At that point I haven’t known that non-denominational is a term that stands for some Protestant Churches, the so called “non-denominational Churches” which actually are quite similar, if not identical in belief as the Baptists.

 

[jlhargus]

What is the correct way to call people who took the initiation sacraments and never again go to church or pray. They use to call themselves catholic but I think is a bad example and they don’t represent us.

JL: I would call them non-practicing Catholics

 

[GaryTaylor]

I was such a “Catholic” once. **I used to call myself “non-denominatinal Christian” **(konfessionsloser Christ).
Without knowing at that time (8 years ago) that this term marks actually what I was looking for and I believe to have found (after a long time of private Bible studies) in the Baptist Church: a “bible believing, ancient christian community as it is discribed in the Holy Bible.” - At that point I haven’t known that non-denominational is a term that stands for some Protestant Churches, the so called “non-denominational Churches” which actually are quite similar, if not identical in belief as the Baptists.

If you don’t mind my asking, what made you leave the CC and how long were you involved?

God Bless, Gary

 

[Neo_The_One]

Reading the bible, praying the rosary and know how to say the mass should be sufficient to be a Catholic.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Reading the bible, praying the rosary and know how to say the mass should be sufficient to be a Catholic.

Sounds like the plan that will only get better:thumbsup:

God Bless, Gary

 

[jlhargus]

I was such a “Catholic” once. **I used to call myself “non-denominatinal Christian” **(konfessionsloser Christ).
Without knowing at that time (8 years ago) that this term marks actually what I was looking for and I believe to have found (after a long time of private Bible studies) in the Baptist Church: a “bible believing, ancient christian community as it is discribed in the Holy Bible.” - At that point I haven’t known that non-denominational is a term that stands for some Protestant Churches, the so called “non-denominational Churches” which actually are quite similar, if not identical in belief as the Baptists.

JL: I was such a Protestant. I used to call myself a non-denominational Bible Christian. After a long time of private Bible studies and Catholic teaching, on my own, outside the Catholic Church or anyone knowing, Protestant or Catholic. I found the ancient christian community as it is discribed in the Holy Bilbe. the following links are my Scriptural reasons for coming to that ancient christian community, the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. The Church Christ is building from living stones with Peter as the VISIBLE ROCK of faith unity.

I posted the links as it is very long, because of all the scriptural evidence for the Catholic Church, and I don’t want to interupte the line. Maybe you could post scriptures for the Baptist Church or non-denominations. As a former non-denominational member I can tell you in dogma there is a great difference. We tried to convert Baptist and they tried to convert us. One BIG difference is OSAS my non-denomination didn’t believe in OSAS, it is totally unscrptural.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447593&postcount=987 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447600&postcount=988 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447604&postcount=989 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447619&postcount=990

 

[GaryTaylor]

JL: I was such a Protestant. I used to call myself a non-denominational Bible Christian. After a long time of private Bible studies and Catholic teaching, on my own, outside the Catholic Church or anyone knowing, Protestant or Catholic. I found the ancient christian community as it is discribed in the Holy Bilbe. the following links are my Scriptural reasons for coming to that ancient christian community, the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. The Church Christ is building from living stones with Peter as the VISIBLE ROCK of faith unity.

Serious Blessing,

God Bless, Gary

 

[jlhargus]

Serious Blessing,

God Bless, Gary

JL: Thanks, I can use that blessing. I’m calling it a night. God bless and good night.

 

[guanophore]

Reading the bible, praying the rosary and know how to say the mass should be sufficient to be a Catholic.

And by what standard have you determined this?

Does this sound to you like what Jesus taught?

 

[PRmerger]

Reading the bible, praying the rosary and know how to say the mass should be sufficient to be a Catholic.

One would think that being baptized would be necessary as well?

 

[CMatt25]

One would think that being baptized would be necessary as well?

Well Merger, we can add any number of adjectives but for the Catholic Church to claim, define one as a Catholic, to be baptized in the Church is indeed all that is necessary for the noun.

 

[guanophore]

Well Merger, we can add any number of adjectives but for the Catholic Church to claim, define one as a Catholic, to be baptized in the Church is indeed all that is necessary for the noun.

Yet, the OP makes a good point. Persons who do not live out their baptism do not give a good witness to the Church into which they were baptized.

2 Tim 3:1-6
3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 **holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. **Avoid such people.

Being baptized into the Church, but living according to the flesh will not result in unification with one’s heavenly inheritance.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

They are Catholics. Whoever has followed their faith absolutely perfectly may throw the first stone.

Poor Catholics are still Catholics.

You are still using an qualifier. Whoever has followed their faith absolutely perfectly may call the other people Poor Catholics!

I think it goes little deeper than Poor Catholics are still Catholics. We are all members of the same body and if one member is sick the whole body is sick.:sad_yes:

 

[guanophore]

You are still using an qualifier. Whoever has followed their faith absolutely perfectly may call the other people Poor Catholics!

I think it goes little deeper than Poor Catholics are still Catholics. We are all members of the same body and if one member is sick the whole body is sick.:sad_yes:

This is very true, and is also the reason why it is so important to take it seriously when persons calling themselves Catholic are not faithful to the Teachings of the Church. Such behavior sickens all of us.

1 Cor 5:9-13

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; 10 not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber - not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”

 

[CMatt25]

Being baptized into the Church, but living according to the flesh will not result in unification with one’s heavenly inheritance.

Yet Guan, you can not judge who shall be united with heaven. I know with 100% certainty someone once said, “It is not within our purview to judge the hearts of others.”

This is why I believe it can be a disservice for Catholics to push other Catholics further away. OP for instance says calling them Catholic is a bad example because they don’t represent the Church. I have even seen elsewhere people saying to let them go and the Church would be better off to be more orthodox, if smaller.

The problem that persists is those objected to, might then come to feel so unwelcomed in their current state that they simply lose any desire at all to remain even to the degree they have been. And in that case hope might be forever lost for bringing them into a fuller practice of the faith. If the concern is they misrepresent the Church to others, surely the correct representation can be given to others by those with such a concern. Peace and God bless you Guan on your journey.

 

[Esdra]

If you don’t mind my asking, what made you leave the CC and how long were you involved?

God Bless, Gary

Catholic by birth. Was more or less a faithful Catholic until I became 16.
Was very poorly catechised (as I learned quite quickly here in CAF).
Having been Involved in the Baptist Church ('though no full member yet) since summer 2009.