No Church Kneelers

[retiredtxn]

This last summer we visited relatives out of state and while we were there we attended Mass at a new parish. It was ultra-modern in every way with it’s clean lines inside and out. What seemed strange to me was there were no kneelers at all. I thought the whole service was a bit “off”. I didn’t like it. Maybe I’m too old-fashioned! Is this the new trend?

 

[Nota_Bene]

retiredtxn:

This last summer we visited relatives out of state and while we were there we attended Mass at a new parish. It was ultra-modern in every way with it’s clean lines inside and out. What seemed strange to me was there were no kneelers at all. I thought the whole service was a bit “off”. I didn’t like it. Maybe I’m too old-fashioned! Is this the new trend?

The Mass is not a service – it’s the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Jesus the Son to God the Father for propitiation for our sins…

I don’t really care much for kneelers one way or the other as I always kneel during appropriate times at the Mass – kneelers or no kneelers.

 

[Church_Militant]

Our church is being repaired from Hurricane Ivan and so we are in our school gym w/o kneelers. It’s a drag and I commented to my wife that any old person or any of us that wanted to kneel should just do like the Japanese and bring a small pillow. Do that and you may just start a trend of your own.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[GloriaPatri4]

retiredtxn:

This last summer we visited relatives out of state and while we were there we attended Mass at a new parish. It was ultra-modern in every way with it’s clean lines inside and out. What seemed strange to me was there were no kneelers at all. I thought the whole service was a bit “off”. I didn’t like it. Maybe I’m too old-fashioned! Is this the new trend?

I’ve never been to a church without kneelers. Do the majority of people still kneel even with no kneelers?

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

We have a church at the Neuman Center of a state college. It is a very busy parish with many programs. The large church began to have overflow crowds at Mass and the pastor was not able to have seats for everyone. The church was re-modeled and the kneelers were removed. This increased the capacity. There were complaints. The rows are so close together that kneeling is not possible, unless you go to the sides of the building. Standing has always been a sign of respect. Places with no kneelers have folks stand during the Consecration. I wish that all of our churches would have crowding problems. But, I also feel that those who want to kneel should have a little space to do so. Fighting over kneeling or standing,however, does not help in the evangelization we need to do to bring back our fallen away brothers and sisters.

Deacon Tony SFO

 

[Teresita]

I rather like kneeling without kneelers - more of a mortification…

Seriously, since removing the kneelers (or furnishing a church without them) is itself a statement, and one which isn’t a good statement IMO, I think that it’s not Pharisaical to kneel at the appropriate times, even without kneelers - it makes the opposite statement: our Lord is adorable and should be adored.

Sue

 

[pm1853]

Forgive me, I don’t know how to do the quote thingy. But…in regards to GloriaPatri4, the Newman Center at my former college indeed had no kneelers and was extremely crowded, but people kneeled anyway. And I must say, it hurts when only your pants and a thin strip of industrial carpet are the only buffer between you and the concrete, but you do what you have to. A pillow might not actually be a bad idea.

 

[tom.wineman]

**Kneeling before you Lord and God is the most
**natural posture there is for worship. Standing **
**in a crowed is permissible but sitting like you **
are watching TV seems sacrilegious (unless you
**are an invalid or Protestant ). **
**

 

[Mysty101]

Nota Bene:

The Mass is not a service – it’s the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Jesus the Son to God the Father for propitiation for our sins…

I don’t really care much for kneelers one way or the other as I always kneel during appropriate times at the Mass – kneelers or no kneelers.

This is, of course your option, but I would also consider the fact that you are drawing attention to yourself in a uncomplimentary manner, especially since the instructions do say

Girm 43 kneel, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.

and we are also told

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

 

[Nota_Bene]

Deacon Tony560:

We have a church at the Neuman Center of a state college. It is a very busy parish with many programs. The large church began to have overflow crowds at Mass and the pastor was not able to have seats for everyone. The church was re-modeled and the kneelers were removed. This increased the capacity. There were complaints. The rows are so close together that kneeling is not possible, unless you go to the sides of the building. Standing has always been a sign of respect. Places with no kneelers have folks stand during the Consecration. I wish that all of our churches would have crowding problems. But, I also feel that those who want to kneel should have a little space to do so. Fighting over kneeling or standing,however, does not help in the evangelization we need to do to bring back our fallen away brothers and sisters.

Deacon Tony SFO

That’s an unacceptable excuse. If space is an issue, there are ways to install kneelers that take up no additional space. The kneelers may not be as comfortable as some, but at least they are still available…

 

[Scott_Waddell]

I believe there are several non-Latin Catholic rites where standing is the norm, so it would be inappropriate to assume that no kneeling=irreverence. I realize what you are describe is a Latin rite church, but I just wanted to interject that.

Scott

 

[Nota_Bene]

Mysty101:

This is, of course your option, but I would also consider the fact that you are drawing attention to yourself in a uncomplimentary manner, especially since the instructions do say

Girm 43 kneel, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.

and we are also told

Baloney. GIRM 43 does not suggest that we are to stand in the absence of kneelers. Also, only you are suggesting that one draws attention to themselves by kneeling. It can be done in a very discreet manner where no one notices.

 

[Mysty101]

Nota Bene:

Baloney. GIRM 43 does not suggest that we are to stand in the absence of kneelers. Also, only you are suggesting that one draws attention to themselves by kneeling. It can be done in a very discreet manner where no one notices.

No need to get hostile. No kneelers is a very good reason not to kneel, and there is no way you can kneel in a standing congregation without drawing attention to yourself. (Acting differently than everyone else=drawing attention to yourself—there’s no way around that one. It could not go unnoticed unless no one could see you)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Mysty101:

This is, of course your option, but I would also consider the fact that you are drawing attention to yourself in a uncomplimentary manner, especially since the instructions do say

Girm 43 kneel, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.

and we are also told

Quote:
With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

“GIRM 43 kneel, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

This does not mean that if one person in the congregation cannot kneel everyone should not! If I am not prevented by health, space or the large number of people (standing room only), then I should kneel. Uniformity of posture is not the objective, since not everyone will necessarly be able to kneel.

“With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.”

Which indicates that we should kneel during the Consecration!

 

[bear06]

Deacon Tony560:

We have a church at the Neuman Center of a state college. It is a very busy parish with many programs. The large church began to have overflow crowds at Mass and the pastor was not able to have seats for everyone. The church was re-modeled and the kneelers were removed. This increased the capacity. There were complaints. The rows are so close together that kneeling is not possible, unless you go to the sides of the building. Standing has always been a sign of respect. Places with no kneelers have folks stand during the Consecration. I wish that all of our churches would have crowding problems. But, I also feel that those who want to kneel should have a little space to do so. Fighting over kneeling or standing,however, does not help in the evangelization we need to do to bring back our fallen away brothers and sisters.

Deacon Tony SFO

If you’re talking about CAL, they’re about to go back in. Our bishop just told all the parishes without kneelers in the diocese that they have until Labor Day to get them! Yeah!

 

[Kelly]

I understand that for the elderly (some of them) and the physically infrmed, kneeling without kneelers may be a problem, but for the rest of us would it really kill any of us to kneel for the few minutes required during the Consecration? Come on, give me a break, if Jesus can suffer and die on the cross for me, the least I can do is offer up a little bit of discomfort to Him.
As for whether or not everyone else is kneeling is irrelevant, kind of reminds me of the teenager whinig to his mother “that everyone else is doing it, why shouldn’t I” line. If your pastor told you to jump off a cliff, and everyone else did would you follow suit?

 

[mtr01]

Mysty101:

No need to get hostile. No kneelers is a very good reason not to kneel, and there is no way you can kneel in a standing congregation without drawing attention to yourself. (Acting differently than everyone else=drawing attention to yourself—there’s no way around that one. It could not go unnoticed unless no one could see you)

I just posted this on the kneeling poll, but it might be good to repost it here. According to Appendix 2 of the GIRM, no kneelers is **not **a good reason to remain standing:

QUERY 3: In some places kneelers have been taken out of the churches. Thus, the people can only stand or sit and this detracts from the reverence and adoration due to the eucharist. REPLY: The appointments of a place of worship have some relationship to the customs of the particular locale. For example, in the East there are carpets; in the Roman basilicas, only since modern times, there are usually chairs without kneelers, so as to accommodate large crowds. There is nothing to prevent the faithful from kneeling on the floor to show their adoration, no matter how uncomfortable this may be. In cases where kneeling is not possible (see GIRM no. 21), a deep bow and a respectful bearing are signs of the reverence and adoration to be shown at the time of the consecration and communion: Not 14 (1978) 302-303, no. 4.

christusrex.org/www1/mcitl/girmappx2.html

I would also submit that focusing one’s attention on those who are humbly kneeling before the Lord in adoration (and as prescribed) is a problem with those giving their attention, not those kneeling. Indeed, why are these people concerned about others kneeling when their full attention should be on their Lord present on the altar?

 

[Fergal]

As long as there is solid ground there it is always ready to receive a pair of knees!!

The earth has ensured that there is always a kneeler provided.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

retiredtxn:

This last summer we visited relatives out of state and while we were there we attended Mass at a new parish. It was ultra-modern in every way with it’s clean lines inside and out. What seemed strange to me was there were no kneelers at all. I thought the whole service was a bit “off”. I didn’t like it. Maybe I’m too old-fashioned! Is this the new trend?

Hi,

Be a trend setter and bring your own portable kneeler:

rosaryshop.com/prayerKneeler.php/request/finished

I haven’t seen any of the Churches I attend here in Boston without kneelers yet. But when they played drums this morning at Mass, anything is possble.

 

[MaggieOH]

GloriaPatri4:

I’ve never been to a church without kneelers. Do the majority of people still kneel even with no kneelers?

I have not had a problem with any church that does not have kneelers. People still stand sit and kneel as necessary.

What I can point out is that kneelers are very harsh on one’s knees. When the osteoarthritis in my knees began to play up if I knelt on the kneelers I could barely get up again.

My current parish had kneelers but these were removed when we had renovations. We now have a carpeted floor and that is a lot better for the knees . However, because of the problems with my knees, hips and ankles I have permission to sit (and ended up on the front page of the Catholic Weekly sitting during the reading of the Gospel because my left leg and feet were playing up).

Maggie