No Confiteor?

[nicolep]

It’s so interesting to see how differently things are done at different parishes (still within what’s allowed that is). My parish only has the Confiteor during Lent, but almost always uses option #2.

 

[catsrus]

Ahhh, the confiteor. How I miss it. I haven’t heard it in over a year and that was at a different parish. I hope it will be restored in it’s original form with the new missel.

 

[curlycool89]

Hate to be a pest, but do you have citation for that?

If you look at the revised Order of Mass (which rubric-wise is the same as now), it says

The Priest, or a Deacon or another minister, then says the following or other invocations with Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy)

 

[SKWill]

If you look at the revised Order of Mass (which rubric-wise is the same as now), it says

The Priest, or a Deacon or another minister, then says the following or other invocations with Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy)

That’s interesting because those instructions there don’t completely match item 51 of the GIRM which states “Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence” but doesn’t specify who actually leads the various options. Thanks for the pointer.

Maybe if the GIRM (General Instruction on the Roman Missal) where replaced by the SIRM (Specific Instruction on the Roman Missal), things like this would be less confusing.

 

[japhy]

That’s interesting because those instructions there don’t completely match item 51 of the GIRM which states “Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence” but doesn’t specify who actually leads the various options. Thanks for the pointer. Maybe if the GIRM (General Instruction on the Roman Missal) where replaced by the SIRM (Specific Instruction on the Roman Missal), things like this would be less confusing.

As you point out, the GIRM does not go into specific detail about the various forms of the Penitential Act. The priest does invite us into it (through some introductory words like, “Coming together as God’s people, let us first call to mind our sins.”). He would then begin the Confiteor (Form A) or the dialogue (Form B). If Form C is used, it can be led by the deacon or by the choir.

 

[japhy]

Ahhh, the confiteor. How I miss it. I haven’t heard it in over a year and that was at a different parish. I hope it will be restored in it’s original form with the new missel.

The Latin of the Confiteor changed after Vatican II, removing references to certain saints and angels. This Latin text has been better translated in the coming English translation of the Missal, but it is not the “old” Confiteor.

 

[horselvr]

Form # 2
"Lord, we have sinned against you:Lord have mercy.
R: Lord have mercy
"Lord, show your mercy and love.
R: And grant us your salvation
May almightly God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life.
R: Amen

I have a question concerning Form #2 which is generally used at my parish.

When the Priest says “May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life”, some people make the sign of the cross. Are we suppose to make the sign of the Cross at that point. Also, I noticed when the Priest blesses the body and blood of Christ some also make the sign of the cross then. Are we suppose to make the Sign of the Cross then too? Thanks

 

[fieldsparrow]

Today we had the Confiteor, and a WONDERFUL extended homily on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. There were five priests available afterwards for Confession. (I asked; I really can’t go yet, having not prepared, etc. and was in tears after the homily and the Confiteor and singing Amazing Grace which is one of my favorite hymns.)

It was great.

 

[MarkThompson]

When the Priest says “May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life”, some people make the sign of the cross. Are we suppose to make the sign of the Cross at that point. Also, I noticed when the Priest blesses the body and blood of Christ some also make the sign of the cross then. Are we suppose to make the Sign of the Cross then too? Thanks

No. In the pre-Vatican II form of the Mass, a different prayer (now omitted) came just after the “… and bring us to everlasting life,” and there was a sign of the cross at the beginning of that one. People thought that the sign was for the end of the prayer you’re referring to, and kept doing it, but it is no longer in the Mass. As to the sign of the cross that the priest makes over the gifts, that is a gesture proper to the priest and there is no rubric for the congregation to engage in it also.

Of course, the world hardly stops spinning when people make extra signs of the cross. The signing after “everlasting life” seems pretty well ingrained in certain people and is unlikely to die out any time soon, but I’ve never seen people cross themselves at the blessing of the gifts. That one’s a little strange, and kind of misses the focus of the liturgical action at that point.

 

[horselvr]

[Of course, the world hardly stops spinning when people make *extra signs of the cross. The signing after “everlasting life” seems pretty well ingrained in certain people and is unlikely to die out any time soon, but I’ve never seen people cross themselves at the blessing of the gifts. That one’s a little strange, and kind of misses the focus of the liturgical action at that point.

That’s the one that really confused me and it was a Priest actually that told the RCIA class that we could sign when the Priest blesses the body and blood. I’m sure I misunderstood though.

Thank you.

 

[MarkThompson]

That’s the one that really confused me and it was a Priest actually that told the RCIA class that we could sign when the Priest blesses the body and blood. I’m sure I misunderstood though.

Thank you.

Odd. Does he have you making the sign of the cross touching yourself (like you do at the beginning of Mass) or making the sign in the air towards the altar (like the priest does when he blesses something)? If it’s the former, then the emphasis is wrong because the blessing of the gifts has nothing to do with blessing the congregation. If it’s the latter, then the theology is wrong because the congregation is not itself able to impart a priestly blessing or to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Either way, there is no sign of the cross at all for the congregation at this point in the rubrics.

Priests sometimes introduce things like this because they think it would improve the Mass and make it more meaningful for people, or because they mistakenly thought it was in the rubrics, or because someone suggested it to them and they figured it couldn’t hurt to have more people making the sign of the cross. It’s quite likely you understood your priest just fine, and that he was making this suggestion with the best of intentions, but that he was slightly confused about what the rubrics actually call for here.

It’s unfortunate when priests do this, though, because then when people who have learned these unique practices go to any other parish in the world and realize they’re the only ones making a sign of the cross at some random place in the Mass, they can get confused and even embarrassed.

 

[horselvr]

Hi Mark:

No, it’s the former–making the Sign of the Cross as we do at the beginning of Mass. This was a long time ago and I was in RCIA quite a few years and only remember him saying that one time but again I’m sure I misunderstood because he never repeated it and I never saw anyone doing it actually.

Since then, no matter which church I am in, I always wait for when the Priest makes the blessing to see if anyone will do it and NO ONE does. I am convinced I heard wrong and just never questioned it. You’re right though about it potentially causing embarrassment.

There is one man at Mass that I absolutely respect like none other. He has been going to that church since he was a young boy (he is quite aged now) I see him at morning Mass and also on Sunday and I have learned that if Gary doesn’t do it—it ain’t suppose to be done! He is very educated concerning the Mass and what is proper.

He generally is my go to man when I have a question and what I really respect about him is that if he doesn’t know—he will come right out and say that or refer you to one of the Priests.

Thank you so much for answering my questions I really appreciate you taking the time and clearing that up for me as it has nagged at me for quite some time.

 

[achmafooma]

There is one man at Mass that I absolutely respect like none other.

You mean Jesus?

Actually there is a gentleman I know at my home Parish who is similarly knowledgeable about the Mass. We are very blessed to have him help out with our RCIA program (which is where I met him two years ago). He always has something insightful and helpful to add about the ins-and-outs of the Mass and, for that matter, how the Ordinary Form compares to the Extraordinary Form (which he grew up with).

I think every Parish ought to have somebody like that…preferably lots of somebodies like that!

 

[horselvr]

“You mean Jesus?”

Hahaha!! You got me on that one.

 

[oknazevad]

I ran a poll on which forms were most used a couple of months ago; the results there indicated that the form A (the Confeitor followed by the Kyrie) was most common, with form C (the “trope” form of the Kyrie) was second. I don’t think anyone said form B was used at all.

I personally like the Confeitor/Kyrie combo the best, as there’s so many settings from throughout history that can be used. My biggest dislike of form C is that there’s no explicit confession of sin in the standard invocations; the priest does have leeway to use one, but variations are rare in my experience. Form B does have such, but as noted, is rarely used.

If I were compiling the next typical edition, I’d reduce it to two options, the Confeitor/Kyrie and a trope version whose invocations use some of the text of the current form B.

 

[fieldsparrow]

Today we had the Kyrie and something from form C. It is hard for me to keep track unless the Confiteor is involved. We had the Confiteor on Thursday.

 

[30miller]

I like the traditional Confiteor also.

Can I guess those of you who do not hear this often anymore, are suffering from the effects of that “creative” liturgist in your parish?

To answer your question - YES. At my parish we only say the traditional Confiteor during Lent - that’s it. I’ve requested of the pastor to do it more as it is the “A” (or preferred) option - as well as the traditional one, but he refuses. The apparatchiks love this, of course…

 

[horselvr]

This morning was refreshing—the Priest chose The Confiteor (I confess to Almughty God) my favorite.

 

[Bakuryokuso]

This is one reason I switched to the Extraordinary Form.