No Consciousness or Perception in Buddhist Nirvana?

[rossum]

Does this technique open you up to outside influences? I was always told by my kagyu lama that until you reach a certain level of purity you are going to be deceived. Are there any purification sadhannas you know of?

Oh sorry I guess this is purification. Do you have a hinayanna teacher? Or mahayanna since you like that great nagarjuna He’s one of my favorites with Chandrakirti and Atisha.

The Visuddhimagga is a Theravada book. The technique described requires the practitioner to be able to attain the fourth jhana, so the person needs to be pretty advanced to even start. At a rough estimate it takes four years of serious meditation training to be able to attain that level.

rossum

 

[dsully]

Does “consciousness” in Buddhism mean the same thing as “consciousness” to us? Is the translation a good one?

(I’m not asking hypothetically…just asking because I don’t know the answer.).

 

[notself]

The Visuddhimagga is a Theravada book. The technique described requires the practitioner to be able to attain the fourth jhana, so the person needs to be pretty advanced to even start. At a rough estimate it takes four years of serious meditation training to be able to attain that level.

rossum

I would think that the time it takes for one to reach the 4th jhana would depend upon where one began.

There are suttas that describe laypeople reaching nibbana just upon hearing the Buddha speak. Ananda, who was the personal attendant of the Buddha did not obtain nibbana until after the death of the Buddha.

 

[notself]

Does this technique open you up to outside influences? I was always told by my kagyu lama that until you reach a certain level of purity you are going to be deceived. Are there any purification sadhannas you know of?

Oh sorry I guess this is purification. Do you have a hinayanna teacher? Or mahayanna since you like that great nagarjuna He’s one of my favorites with Chandrakirti and Atisha.

Please refrain from using the term Hinayana. Perhaps this snip from Wiki will explain my objection to the term. It is disrespectful when used to mean Theravada. The Bold is mine.

Hīnayāna (हीनयान) is a Sanskrit term literally meaning: the “Inferior Vehicle”, “Deficient Vehicle”, the “Abandoned Vehicle”, or the “Defective Vehicle”, applied to the Śrāvakayāna, the Buddhist path followed by a śrāvaka who wishes to become an arhat. The term appeared around the 1st or 2nd century. Hīnayāna is often contrasted with Mahāyāna, which means the “Great Vehicle.” …

In 1950 the World Fellowship of Buddhists declared that the term Hīnayana should not be used when referring to any form of Buddhism existing today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinayana#H.C4.ABnay.C4.81na_and_Therav.C4.81da

 

[billcu1]

Please refrain from using the term Hinayana. Perhaps this snip from Wiki will explain my objection to the term. It is disrespectful when used to mean Theravada. The Bold is mine.

I thought h* meant the “lesser vehicle”. Sorry.

 

[notself]

I thought h* meant the “lesser vehicle”. Sorry.

No problem. I figured you didn’t know.

 

[chowkit74]

I read that all five aggregates (form, feelings, perception, mental formations, and consciousness) are annihilated upon attaining Nirvana. If consciousness is annihilated, isn’t that basically the same as death, since there is no awareness of anything? I’m also confused because I have seen Nirvana described as ultimate happiness, but how can there be happiness if there is no perception or consciousness?

The ultimate goal in the Buddhist practice is to quest for an everlasting happiness that is unconditional via enlightenment. For general understanding, nibbāna is a completely neutralised state of affairs that is boundless, timeless and permanent. The wise Buddha has merely seen the urgency to put a complete end to dukkha that arises in samsāra - right here, right now. All other matters are considered as trivial if compared with the reality of dukkha arising in the samsāra. And the only way to end the dukkha permanently is to get through to the state of nibbāna via enlightenment. All other states of paradise or heavenly realms could promise one with merely conventional happiness that is conditional and impermanent. So the choice in the way of life is yours ultimately – to pursue an ultimate happiness that is non-conditional and permanent or a conventional happiness that is conditional and impermanent.

However, nibbāna does not exist at all in an ultimate sense, but why? This is because there is non-existence of the mind to provide with descriptions, perceptions, names, shapes, etc. within the state of nibbāna. Generally, there is another label for the mind i.e. the consciousness of individuality that is born from awareness. And consciousness is actually synergy and it is a key to the geometric expansion of consciousness – thus the arising of prevailing and subtle consciousnesses. Therefore, the origin of individuality is the same as the origin of the mind. Mind is something more objective and involves clear discrimination – differentiates and understands the characteristics of objects. One utilises mind to understand things because mind understands the manipulation of consciousness. Thus the delusion of self entity arises among the sentient beings in the dependent nature. In addition, mind is dependent arising but nibbāna is a non-dependent arising state of affairs i.e. with no rising and falling activities taking place. In other words, nibbāna is a completely neutralised state of affairs – in contrast with the conventional phenomenon that would subject to the conditional influences i.e. in a continuous and constantly changing state of affairs.

In the dependent nature or samsāra, there is an element of suffering or dukkha. Suffering means ‘bearing with’ in the Buddhist context and ‘letting go’ is the antonym of it. Literally, there are no elements of grasping when one practises letting go. When no grasping arises, the becoming process would slow down. This is because everything in the dependent nature is nothing but energy. And energy is nothing but mere vibration. When the becoming process slows down, it means energy is vibrating at lower frequencies. When the becoming process ceases, energy literally stops vibrating. Energy just got ‘frozen.’ Zero vibration means zero becoming. Zero becoming means an absolute cessation of any changing activities. Thus an absolute stage of absence is achieved. Absence means a perfect state of balance. Therefore, absence is not about nothingness but instead it is about no-thing-ness. No thing means no becoming or no changing. No changing means no suffering. No suffering means no mind. Mind is the forerunner of all states. No mind means a completely neutralised state of affairs - that is nibbāna. The state of nibbāna is inexplicable in conventional terms but still, it can be tasted by the enlightened ones during deep meditation.