No contrition?

[Thoughtfulone]

A person say who fornicates…and has a baby from it…has to repent of the sin…it is a mortal sin and has gravely been against God and the truth of human sexuality etc…but that person does not have to “wish the child did not exist”…

God brought out good from his sins…

that good remains…

it is the sins that he is to detest etc …

He might say: “I am sorry for my sins…I repent etc…I thank God though…for the good he has brought me even out of my sins…this little girl …I thank God for her.”

or even “I am sorry for my sins…I cannot get my emotions to work with me here…but I repent and in my will I despise the sins…for they offend my Lord gravely…and I thank God though for the good he still gave me…this little girl…thank you Lord! I love you for I know your love…and am sorry for my sins even though I can not feel it as I would like”

Thanks. I think I am contrite enough for forgiveness, although I could definitely be moreso. Hopefully God sees that I am a work in progress and will have mercy on me!

 

[Cristiano]

Thanks. I think I am contrite enough for forgiveness, although I could definitely be moreso. Hopefully God sees that I am a work in progress and will have mercy on me!

Did you think you were the only one? Welcome to the club!

 

[smichhertz]

You are welcome. I’m glad I could help!

 

[Bookcat]

Act of Contrition

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.

From the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Issued by Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#A%29%20COMMON%20PRAYERS

Catechism:

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

1454 The reception of this sacrament ought to be prepared for by an examination of conscience made in the light of the Word of God. the passages best suited to this can be found in the moral catechesis of the Gospels and the apostolic Letters, such as the Sermon on the Mount and the apostolic teachings.53

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4D.HTM

 

[guanophore]

I have a problem with contrition in that I don’t really regret my past sins. I am sorry for offending God, of course, and I am resolved not to commit those sins again in obedience to Him, but if I am being honest with myself, it’s not like I wish they had never happened. I mean, I did a lot of things when I was younger that I would not do today, but I had a blast, and I think the fact that I had so much fun in my past has really enabled me to settle down with no regrets now and try to be the best person I can be. I’m afraid that because of this, my confessions have been invalid, but I can’t force myself to regret these sins from my past, I can only be determined to be a better person in the future.

I don’t think this is uncommon. It is hard for us to see the far reaching consequences of our sins, and the damage they have done to us, and to others. The fact taht you recognize that you need to turn away from them and “be a better person in the future” may be the best you can do at this point. It is a start.

As we get older we sometimes become aware of how much hurt and pain our actions have caused, and we come to have more or deeper remorse. We can also pray that God will help us to see the seriousness of our sins like He sees them.

 

[guanophore]

Exactly. I sure hope I’m forgiven for those sins anyway (I have confessed them), but I can’t “unwish” them or control my emotions about them…I can only try to be better in the future. If I’m being honest, some of those times were the most fun I’ve ever had in my life and didn’t hurt anyone, even myself! I am sorry for having offended God, but I’m not sure that’s enough for forgiveness

A valid confession does not require feelings of remorse or regret. It requires that we repent (turn away from the sins) and have a firm purpose of amendment. Sometimes, people confess because they know intellectually that they have done wrong, but the feelings don’t catch up for a long time. None of the sacraments depend upon our feelings to be valid.

 

[guanophore]

I can barely see why it is a sin in the first place.

I think this is the crux of the problem. Such insight can only come through prayer, meditation, spiritual formation, instruction in faith and maturity. None of them can be accomplished by a simple act of the will. In order for our consciences to work properly, they need to be formed by His revelation. When they are not, we cannot see ourselves as He sees us, and we can’t see the damage the sin does as He does.

Do I WISH they had never happened?  Not really.  I feel that my sins and the "fun" I had when I was younger have led me to a place where I can look back at my life with fondness and feel like I truly experienced life, so that now I can live a calmer, holier life in the present without wondering what would have been and without regrets.  Regret, wishing...all those are feelings I do not have, nor can I force them upon myself.

God can lead you into understanding and contrition, if you are willing. I think you are confusing the positive outcomes that God has wrought with your sinful choices. You have no way of knowing how much better things might have been if you had been able to refrain from breaking His commandments.

It is good that you can see good fruit coming from your life, but the sin does not produce good fruit, only bad. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

I did no harm to others

the greatest harm may be to yourself.

Maybe God will make me more sorrowful for my sins in the future, but for now, I just don’t feel the weight of them in that way, and I have a hard time really understanding and feeling they seriousness of them and how or if the hurt God when they really weren’t that horrible in my own estimation…if they were, I never would have done those things to begin with.

God will certainly do this if you allow Him and earnestly desire it.

If you are clinging to the “benefits” of your sins, it is not likley to happen, and you will be prone to continue to commit sins - maybe not the same ones, but different ones.

 

[guanophore]

I think the CC is really hung up on matters of sexuality and as a result, this tends to give us all a complex

This is a common misunderstanding among modern American Catholics. Some time with JPII’s Theology of the Body will help.

So yes, it’s difficult to have true contrition for something you don’t necessarily believe is a grave sin.

I think this summarizes your problem quite well.

I really don’t get this idea that contrition is an act of will. If it is, I suppose I am contrite because at least I WANT to have the contrition necessary for forgiveness? I don’t know…it’s pretty vague.

Yes, you make an act of the will to have God form your conscience so that you can see how He sees. As He reveals the Truth to you, your emotions will follow.

 

[Bookcat]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

The foot note is referencing the Ecumenical Council of Trent.

I was reading today some of Trent…so hence I am posting…

Trent notes the above as well as states:

" Wherefore the holy Synod declares, that this contrition contains not only a cessation from sin, and the purpose and the beginning of a new life, but also a hatred of the old…"(Trent, Fourteenth Session…Chapter IV)

Of course again note…that one is not detesting any “good” that God has brought out of ones sins…but one is detesting the evil…the sin that one has done…it is a “detestation for the sin committed” (CCC 1451)

(and again it is an act of the will primarily…if ones emotions do not follow…no worries)

(Found text in one of my books…and found online text at site I found today :internetpadre.com)

 

[guanophore]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

The foot note is referencing the Ecumenical Council of Trent.

I was reading today some of Trent…so hence I am posting…

Trent notes the above as well as states:

" Wherefore the holy Synod declares, that this contrition contains not only a cessation from sin, and the purpose and the beginning of a new life, but also a hatred of the old…"(Trent, Fourteenth Session…Chapter IV)

Of course again note…that one is not detesting any “good” that God has brought out of ones sins…but one is detesting the evil…the sin that one has done…it is a “detestation for the sin committed” (CCC 1451)

(and again it is an act of the will primarily…if ones emotions do not follow…no worries)

(Found text in one of my books…and found online text at site I found today :internetpadre.com)

Seems to me it would be very difficult to detest something you thought was never wrong in the first place, and about which you are grateful.

 

[guanophore]

No, if I had really thought that it was gravely offensive to God, I would not have done it, and even now, I don’t think people are going to Hell for having pre-marital sex with the one they love. I think the CC is really hung up on matters of sexuality and as a result, this tends to give us all a complex

This being the case, why seek forgiveness at all? Clearly you dont believe you commited any sin, and if it was a sin, it was not a bad one…nothing that is going to send you to hell.

Why worry about contrition when you really dont’ need it?

So yes, it’s difficult to have true contrition for something you don’t necessarily believe is a grave sin.

Impossible, I would say.

It also seems unnecessary to seek forgiveness.

I really don’t get this idea that contrition is an act of will. If it is, I suppose I am contrite because at least I WANT to have the contrition necessary for forgiveness? I don’t know…it’s pretty vague.

What is vague or does not make sense is why you would want to have contrition of seek forgiveness for something you did not think is wrong.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

This being the case, why seek forgiveness at all? Clearly you dont believe you commited any sin, and if it was a sin, it was not a bad one…nothing that is going to send you to hell.

Why worry about contrition when you really dont’ need it?

Impossible, I would say.

It also seems unnecessary to seek forgiveness.

What is vague or does not make sense is why you would want to have contrition of seek forgiveness for something you did not think is wrong.

Well, if the Church IS right, I certainly don’t want to spend eternity in Hell…I’m paranoid like that Bookcat keeps underlining this detestation for the sin line and then saying that is an act of will, which it is not. Hatred is an emotion and if I need it for absolution, I’m in trouble

 

[guanophore]

Well, if the Church IS right, I certainly don’t want to spend eternity in Hell…I’m paranoid like that Bookcat keeps underlining this detestation for the sin line and then saying that is an act of will, which it is not. Hatred is an emotion and if I need it for absolution, I’m in trouble

Indeed hatred of sin does begin with an act of the will. At some point, a person must give mental assent to the revelation of God, and a conscience agreement that what God defines as sin will, indeed, separate us from Him for eternity. Once that intellectual assent, and the act of the will are joined, the emotions and the behavior will eventually follow.

If one cannot intellectually and willfully come to an agreement with God, then I am not sure that hell can be avoided. Hell is created for those who are not in agreement with God.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Indeed hatred of sin does begin with an act of the will. At some point, a person must give mental assent to the revelation of God, and a conscience agreement that what God defines as sin will, indeed, separate us from Him for eternity. Once that intellectual assent, and the act of the will are joined, the emotions and the behavior will eventually follow.

If one cannot intellectually and willfully come to an agreement with God, then I am not sure that hell can be avoided. Hell is created for those who are not in agreement with God.

Yes, of course if God Himself says something, it is true. But some people think that what the Church says might not be the exact same thing…this is different.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

Faith

1814 Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith "man freely commits his entire self to God."78 For this reason the believer seeks to know and do God’s will. “The righteous shall live by faith.” Living faith "work(s) through charity."79

1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it.80 But “faith apart from works is dead”:81 when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.

1816 The disciple of Christ must not only keep the faith and live on it, but also profess it, confidently bear witness to it, and spread it: "All however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the Cross, amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks."82 Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation: "So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."83

 

[guanophore]

Yes, of course if God Himself says something, it is true. But some people think that what the Church says might not be the exact same thing…this is different.

It is only different for those who are unable to recognize that Jesus is One with His Holy Bride, the Church.

Your position necessitates that the Body can exist without a Head, which is preposterous (a body without a head dies). Your position necessitates that the HS is not really the Soul of the Church, and does not animate and give life to the Body.

It would mean that Jesus was too weak, or disinterested, and failed to keep His promises to be with the Church to the end of the age, and lead her into “all Truth”. It would mean that He lied, and really did leave us orphans, and without a shepherd. It would mean that the powerful Christ evident in the book of Revelation, guiding and chastizing His Church fell absent at some point, and no longer provides that guidance.

Frankly, I have trouble understanding how any Catholic could entertain such beliefs about Christ. I don’t see how one could still consider themselves Christian if they did.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

It is only different for those who are unable to recognize that Jesus is One with His Holy Bride, the Church.

Your position necessitates that the Body can exist without a Head, which is preposterous (a body without a head dies). Your position necessitates that the HS is not really the Soul of the Church, and does not animate and give life to the Body.

It would mean that Jesus was too weak, or disinterested, and failed to keep His promises to be with the Church to the end of the age, and lead her into “all Truth”. It would mean that He lied, and really did leave us orphans, and without a shepherd. It would mean that the powerful Christ evident in the book of Revelation, guiding and chastizing His Church fell absent at some point, and no longer provides that guidance.

Frankly, I have trouble understanding how any Catholic could entertain such beliefs about Christ. I don’t see how one could still consider themselves Christian if they did.

Please, guanophore. Just because Jesus promised to lead the Church into all truth does not mean that the Church possesses all truth at any given moment in history, otherwise the Church’s understanding of certain things would never change and grow, and we all know that it has.

And just because the Holy Spirit is at work within the Church does not mean that every human being within that Church is an expert at listening and interpreting what the Holy Spirit is telling them.

The Church can and does evolve and change over time and so does its understanding of a great many things. This does not mean that Jesus has abandoned it.

 

[Bookcat]

Well, if the Church IS right, I certainly don’t want to spend eternity in Hell…I’m paranoid like that Bookcat keeps underlining this detestation for the sin line and then saying that is an act of will, which it is not. Hatred is an emotion and if I need it for absolution, I’m in trouble

Yes sometimes language can trip one up.

This can be I think of some help here…

When one is discussing biology…one uses biological understandings of words and terms. When one is discussing law one uses legal understandings of words and terms…when one is discussion physics one one uses the understanding of terms and words that are proper to that science…(ie. Mass means something way different there )

Such goes for the various areas of knowledge…(sometimes we can forget this)

So when one is discussing theology (the queen of the sciences) and the Teachings of the Church one must use the understandings of terms and words* as the Church and Catholic Theology uses them*. And make the distinctions that are made…

The detestation of sin the hatred of the sin etc…need not mean that ones “emotions” follow ones will…for we do not have that kind of control over our emotions…

this by the way is true too of love.

One can love someone without feeling it…

Love of ones enemies …does not mean that one has to “feel” anything for them…

(of course if ones emotions are able to follow…such is good! and it can be good to seek such)

 

[guanophore]

Please, guanophore.  Just because Jesus promised to lead the Church into all truth does not mean that the Church possesses all truth at any given moment in history, otherwise the Church's understanding of certain things would never change and grow, and we all know that it has.

I have never claimed that the Church “posesses all Truth”. The Truth she possesses was given to her by Christ. It specifically relates to the things we need to know in order to attain heaven. The doctrines of the faith, especially those about sexual sin, have never changed, and cannot be changed. They are part of the immutable deposit of faith.

And just because the Holy Spirit is at work within the Church does not mean that every human being within that Church is an expert at listening and interpreting what the Holy Spirit is telling them.

I agree, but the promise that the HS would lead the Church into all Truth was given to the Magesterium, where it resides to this day. For that reason, none of us need be concerned that one person may not be listening, because it is the Church that speaks.

The Church can and does evolve and change over time and so does its understanding of a great many things. This does not mean that Jesus has abandoned it.

No, the people evolve and change. Eternal truth does not.

You seem to be claiming that specific Truth was not given to the Church with regard to our sexual conduct. It seems like you do this so you can consider your own activities “not even really sinful”. Basically what you are claiming is that Jesus really did not leave the deposit of faith with His Bride, that the scriptures are lying, and that He lied.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Yes sometimes language can trip one up.

This can be I think of some help here…

When one is discussing biology…one uses biological understandings of words and terms. When one is discussing law one uses legal understandings of words and terms…when one is discussion physics one one uses the understanding of terms and words that are proper to that science…(ie. Mass means something way different there )

Such goes for the various areas of knowledge…(sometimes we can forget this)

So when one is discussing theology (the queen of the sciences) and the Teachings of the Church one must use the understandings of terms and words* as the Church and Catholic Theology uses them*. And make the distinctions that are made…

The detestation of sin the hatred of the sin etc…need not mean that ones “emotions” follow ones will…for we do not have that kind of control over our emotions…

this by the way is true too of love.

One can love someone without feeling it…

Love of ones enemies …does not mean that one has to “feel” anything for them…

(of course if ones emotions are able to follow…such is good! and it can be good to seek such)

Yes, you can show “love” through your actions by DOING something for your enemies or even by NOT DOING something against them. Tell me then, how one can show hatred/regret for sin…I would have said by simply not committing that sin, amending one’s life, attempting to follow God’s will in the future etc., but you have already said that it is not enough to amend one’s life…so what is it?