No Crucifix w/ Corpus During Lent?

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Nota_Bene

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My parish’s large crucifix (/w corpus) is now covered over and a plain wooden cross (/w cutsie purple cloth) has been put in its place. The Church directs us to have a crucifix with corpus in the sanctuary:

GIRM #308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations.

Is there any documentation from the Church that allows what my parish is doing? No, I’m not interested in any “local custom” arguments.

Much like draining the holy water fonts in the past, it seems wrong to deprive Catholics of important scramentals like holy water and the crucifix during penetential times like Lent.
 
Umm…thats odd…parishes near where I live have the corpus cross out all lent and then at Easter cover or remove the corpus cross and place a regular cross there.

And its perfectly OK to empty the holy water font.

The new, ortodox pastor did that last year. Its a practice that may be done to closer unite ourselves with Jesus as he spent the 40 days in the desert
 
My parish has the same rituals. No Christ on the crucifix, also they cover Mary and Joseph statues with cloth and of course remove the holy water. It is always so glorious on Easter Sunday when everything is unveiled.

Brandon
 
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Meggie:
. . .
And its perfectly OK to empty the holy water font.
. . .
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Do you have a document reference to support that, or is it just your opinion?
 
the priest showed us something from an old book it had imprimitur and nihil obstat. It was written in the 40’s or 50’s for young priests…
 
One thing that I’ve been concerned with is the power of Holy Water against the devil, removing it seems to be inviting trouble.
 
Nota Bene:
My parish’s large crucifix (/w corpus) is now covered over and a plain wooden cross (/w cutsie purple cloth) has been put in its place. The Church directs us to have a crucifix with corpus in the sanctuary:

GIRM #308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations.

Is there any documentation from the Church that allows what my parish is doing? No, I’m not interested in any “local custom” arguments.

Much like draining the holy water fonts in the past, it seems wrong to deprive Catholics of important scramentals like holy water and the crucifix during penetential times like Lent.
Click to expand...
And the liturgy experts in Rome agree. Draining the Holy water is not to be done. They stated this in a response to the question, that we are not "fasting "from sacramentals during Lent!

If I remember correctly the Cross and statues are to be covered during Holy week not for the entire time of Lent. It would be proper to have the processional cross near the altar during Masses of Holy week.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
And the liturgy experts in Rome agree. Draining the Holy water is not to be done. They stated this in a response to the question, that we are not "fasting "from sacramentals during Lent!

If I remember correctly the Cross and statues are to be covered during Holy week not for the entire time of Lent. It would be proper to have the processional cross near the altar during Masses of Holy week.
Click to expand...
Brother Rich

Do you have a link to where I can find more information on the topic of draining the holy water?
 
+JMJ+

I thought that it was during the Lenten Triduum that we covered all the statues and the Corpus Christi and drained the Holy Water fonts. Is this like buying Christmas decorations in September? Aren’t they ahead of the game here?
 
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Meggie:
the priest showed us something from an old book it had imprimitur and nihil obstat. It was written in the 40’s or 50’s for young priests…
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So, you have nothing.

The Church says nothing on this matter. Then again, she dosen’t expressly prohibit BBQing in the sanctuary during the Mass, does She? Perhaps She felt confident that those in authority would never make the stultified decision to deprive Catholics of a sacramental as important as holy water during a period like Lent?

Just another “local tradition” that contravenes the Church.
 
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Meggie:
the priest showed us something from an old book it had imprimitur and nihil obstat. It was written in the 40’s or 50’s for young priests…
Click to expand...
So in other words, you have absoluvely nothing.

The Church says nothing on this matter. (Then again, she dosen’t expressly prohibit BBQing in the sanctuary during the Mass, does She? Maybe that’s license enough, aye?) Perhaps She felt confident that those in authority would never make the stultified decision to deprive Catholics of a sacramental as important as holy water during a period like Lent?

Just another “local tradition” that contravenes the Church.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
And the liturgy experts in Rome agree. Draining the Holy water is not to be done. They stated this in a response to the question, that we are not "fasting "from sacramentals during Lent!

If I remember correctly the Cross and statues are to be covered during Holy week not for the entire time of Lent. It would be proper to have the processional cross near the altar during Masses of Holy week.
Click to expand...
I have heard this too. Is this documented by the Church, or just more legend?
 
It is done this way in the traditional church-the only thing is that the holy water is not drained, if I remember correctly until Holy Thursday. As far as covering the crucifix, that also does not take place yet- I will know when I go to mass tomorrow, but it is always in purple as that is the color of his passion.
Nota Bene:
My parish’s large crucifix (/w corpus) is now covered over and a plain wooden cross (/w cutsie purple cloth) has been put in its place. The Church directs us to have a crucifix with corpus in the sanctuary:

GIRM #308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations.

Is there any documentation from the Church that allows what my parish is doing? No, I’m not interested in any “local custom” arguments.

Much like draining the holy water fonts in the past, it seems wrong to deprive Catholics of important scramentals like holy water and the crucifix during penetential times like Lent.
Click to expand...
 
Answer by Colin Donovan of EWTN:

While the holy water fonts are emptied from the Mass of the Lord’s Supper until they are refilled with water blessed at the Easter Vigil, they should not be emptied prior to Holy Thursday. The following letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments rejects this practice. Note the strong bias (reason 1) against inventing practices not called for in the liturgical law. Forcibly rejected is the argument used by some to justify their abuses that “It is not forbidden, so I can do it.” In reality, no one may do in that liturgy that which is not prescribed by the Church, specifically the Apostolic See, who alone has authority over it (SC 22, canon 838.

CONGREGATION DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM
Prot. N. 569/00/L Dear Father

March 14, 2000
This Congregation for Divine Worship has received your letter sent by fax in which you ask whether it is in accord with liturgical law to remove the Holy Water from the fonts for the duration of the season of Lent.

This Dicastery is able to respond that the removing of Holy Water from the fonts during the season of Lent is not permitted, in particular, for two reasons:
  1. The liturgical legislation in force does not foresee this innovation, which in addition to being *praeter legem *is contrary to a balanced understanding of the season of Lent, which though truly being a season of penance, is also a season rich in the symbolism of water and baptism, constantly evoked in liturgical texts.
  2. The encouragement of the Church that the faithful avail themselves frequently of the [sic] of her sacraments and sacramentals is to be understood to apply also to the season of Lent. The “fast” and “abstinence” which the faithful embrace in this season does not extend to abstaining from the sacraments or sacramentals of the Church. The practice of the Church has been to empty the Holy Water fonts on the days of the Sacred Triduum in preparation of the blessing of the water at the Easter Vigil, and it corresponds to those days on which the Eucharist is not celebrated (i.e., Good Friday and Holy Saturday).
Hoping that this resolves the question and with every good wish and kind regard, I am,

Sincerely yours in Christ, [signed]

Mons. Mario Marini Undersecretary
 
Answer by Colin Donovan of EWTN:

While the holy water fonts are emptied from the Mass of the Lord’s Supper until they are refilled with water blessed at the Easter Vigil, they should not be emptied prior to Holy Thursday. The following letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments rejects this practice. Note the strong bias (reason 1) against inventing practices not called for in the liturgical law. Forcibly rejected is the argument used by some to justify their abuses that “It is not forbidden, so I can do it.” In reality, no one may do in that liturgy that which is not prescribed by the Church, specifically the Apostolic See, who alone has authority over it (SC 22, canon 838.

CONGREGATION DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM
Prot. N. 569/00/L Dear Father

March 14, 2000
This Congregation for Divine Worship has received your letter sent by fax in which you ask whether it is in accord with liturgical law to remove the Holy Water from the fonts for the duration of the season of Lent.

This Dicastery is able to respond that the removing of Holy Water from the fonts during the season of Lent is not permitted, in particular, for two reasons:
  1. The liturgical legislation in force does not foresee this innovation, which in addition to being *praeter legem *is contrary to a balanced understanding of the season of Lent, which though truly being a season of penance, is also a season rich in the symbolism of water and baptism, constantly evoked in liturgical texts.
  2. The encouragement of the Church that the faithful avail themselves frequently of the [sic] of her sacraments and sacramentals is to be understood to apply also to the season of Lent. The “fast” and “abstinence” which the faithful embrace in this season does not extend to abstaining from the sacraments or sacramentals of the Church. The practice of the Church has been to empty the Holy Water fonts on the days of the Sacred Triduum in preparation of the blessing of the water at the Easter Vigil, and it corresponds to those days on which the Eucharist is not celebrated (i.e., Good Friday and Holy Saturday).
Hoping that this resolves the question and with every good wish and kind regard, I am,

Sincerely yours in Christ, [signed]

Mons. Mario Marini Undersecretary
 
Answer by Colin Donovan of EWTN:

While the holy water fonts are emptied from the Mass of the Lord’s Supper until they are refilled with water blessed at the Easter Vigil, they should not be emptied prior to Holy Thursday. The following letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments rejects this practice. Note the strong bias (reason 1) against inventing practices not called for in the liturgical law. Forcibly rejected is the argument used by some to justify their abuses that “It is not forbidden, so I can do it.” In reality, no one may do in that liturgy that which is not prescribed by the Church, specifically the Apostolic See, who alone has authority over it (SC 22, canon 838.

CONGREGATION DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM
Prot. N. 569/00/L Dear Father

March 14, 2000
This Congregation for Divine Worship has received your letter sent by fax in which you ask whether it is in accord with liturgical law to remove the Holy Water from the fonts for the duration of the season of Lent.

This Dicastery is able to respond that the removing of Holy Water from the fonts during the season of Lent is not permitted, in particular, for two reasons:
  1. The liturgical legislation in force does not foresee this innovation, which in addition to being *praeter legem *is contrary to a balanced understanding of the season of Lent, which though truly being a season of penance, is also a season rich in the symbolism of water and baptism, constantly evoked in liturgical texts.
  2. The encouragement of the Church that the faithful avail themselves frequently of the [sic] of her sacraments and sacramentals is to be understood to apply also to the season of Lent. The “fast” and “abstinence” which the faithful embrace in this season does not extend to abstaining from the sacraments or sacramentals of the Church. The practice of the Church has been to empty the Holy Water fonts on the days of the Sacred Triduum in preparation of the blessing of the water at the Easter Vigil, and it corresponds to those days on which the Eucharist is not celebrated (i.e., Good Friday and Holy Saturday).
Hoping that this resolves the question and with every good wish and kind regard, I am,

Sincerely yours in Christ, [signed]

Mons. Mario Marini Undersecretary
 
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BulldogCath:
It is done this way in the traditional church-the only thing is that the holy water is not drained, if I remember correctly until Holy Thursday. As far as covering the crucifix, that also does not take place yet- I will know when I go to mass tomorrow, but it is always in purple as that is the color of his passion.
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What is the “traditonal church?” Some sort of new Protestant sect?

There is one Latin Rite Catholic Church.
 
Nota Bene:
I have heard this too. Is this documented by the Church, or just more legend?
Click to expand...
I wil try and find a link for the Holy water issue and something in the liturgical books on the covering of the cross. As someone mentioned it may be only the Triduum?
 
Br. Rich SFO:
I wil try and find a link for the Holy water issue and something in the liturgical books on the covering of the cross. As someone mentioned it may be only the Triduum?
Click to expand...
Well the above covers the Holy water. The three liturgical books I look in mentioned covering the cross"during Lent" but called it a “custom” and “the tradition of…”
 
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