No Denominations?

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As you described it, Post-denominational christianity feeds off of denominational christianity. It could not exist without them.

I’m fine with a small number of people being post-denom but not a large number:
  • Denominations and local churches by design provide community for their members.
  • Communities by their nature include components of inclusivity/exclusivity
  • The whole model fails when too many members stop giving consistently (money/time) and become random visitors, who will give less because they are not really connected with any particular group.
To use an analogy
While it takes a village to raise a child, (village = all denoms)
You still need the tight family unit to be responsible for the child (family=single denom)
 
Brandon,

How would you distinguish between “post-denominational” Christians, and ones who are “serially denominational” – that is, who go from one denomination to another, as you’ve outlined (i.e., “when they move”)?

Also, since post-denominational Christians are, in essence, squatters at denominational congregations, wouldn’t this be somewhat rude if a particular congregation intends its members to be operating from the denominational point of view?

Blessings,

G.
Serial-denominationalism. Denominational squatters. Thank you for those phrases. 🙂

Those are good points, though. Not every Christian community would be that happy to have members who don’t really consider themselves members.
 
There’s a concept I’ve been thinking about, called post-denominational Christianity. First, some definitions:

Denominational Christianity: Here I mean any Christian communion that has a history, a creed and a defining character (it is in some way exclusive). Even groups that may not be denominations under the standard definition, such as Orthodox or Catholics, qualify as part of denominational Christianity under this definition.

Non-denominational Christianity: This was an effort to break away from any denominations and to found a Christian community that did not have any defining character or creed. Very quickly it developed a character and creed. After a couple decades, it also developed a unique history, and therefore itself became a denomination.

Post-denominational Christianity: This is a meta-group within Christianity. Different denominational Christians can be post-denominational. Post-denominational Christianity will not become a denomination, because it will be open to all denominational forms of Christianity, and indeed all groups that identify as Christian. Any worship or doctrinal choice will be a matter of taste, or even a matter of believing that one form of worship or element of doctrine is true or right, while remaining open to the possibility of being wrong. To keep from having a centralised character, post- denominational Christians will worship within multiple denominations; it may be helpful for its diversity that post-denominational Christians attend a different denomination each time they move, or that they go to multiple different churches on Sunday or through the week. The only denominational element post-denominational Christianity will come to have is a historical character.

I am a post-denominational Christian. I worship during the week with a group at my university (non-denominational), p ray the morning prayer at a Scottish Episcopalian Church, and attend contemporary Presbyterian worship on Sundays (while twice a month going to Catholic Mass on Saturday evening). I have made meaningful connections within these communities, and am starting to build bridges.

What do you think of this sort of movement? Does anyone here identify with post-denominational Christianity? What problems do you see with it? What would you think about a post-denominational Christian attending Mass?

A more provocative question… what do you think about opening communion to post-denominational Christians?
For a start a creed is a statement of belief, by stating what defines post-denominational, Christianity you state, if even implicitly, what you believe hence a creed. To shift it to personal pronouns:

We are a meta-group within Christianity
Any worship or doctrinal choice will be a matter of taste,
while remaining open to the possibility of being wrong.
We will keep from having a centralised character,
We will worship within multiple denominations;

However short or imprecise it may be it is a creed of sorts.
I admit that Catholics could be right. It’s possible that a post-denominational Christian would be Catholic, would believe everything Catholics believe, but would be open to the possibility that he or she may be wrong, and therefore would be open at least to worshipping in other Christian communities (even if communion would not be open, per se). This person could receive communion in good conscience, right? Or no?
From your earlier definition a Catholic could not properly speaking be a post-denominational Christian, to be Catholic is to be a part of the Church one cannot logically be denominational and post-denominational at the same time, your in square circle territory there.
 
This was tried… It was referred to as The Catholic Church.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) things happens when you mix the divine & human over time 🙂
 
I saw something new to me in this thread. Personally I have never heard of any Catholic church encouraging open communion.

In my wife’s Lutheran church her pastor encourages it at every service. But I have never taken it. And in my Presbyterian days it was also encouraged. But those are different churches…
 
In some ways, this sounds perfect and just what we need. But I just wonder. If being post-denominational means you need to try to please everyone, there might be parts of the Bible that the pastor would not talk about, such as beliefs of what is sinful and not. I don’t think that can be taken away from the Bible. Christians need to believe in sin. I think they just need new ways of dealing with sinful people. If someone needs and asks for help in dealing with a sin, the churrch should try and help. So although i could see this working in some ways, I just worry. Might this just become another church that doesn’t follow the Bible?
 
There’s a concept I’ve been thinking about, called post-denominational Christianity. First, some definitions:

Denominational Christianity: Here I mean any Christian communion that has a history, a creed and a defining character (it is in some way exclusive). Even groups that may not be denominations under the standard definition, such as Orthodox or Catholics, qualify as part of denominational Christianity under this definition.

Non-denominational Christianity: This was an effort to break away from any denominations and to found a Christian community that did not have any defining character or creed. Very quickly it developed a character and creed. After a couple decades, it also developed a unique history, and therefore itself became a denomination.

Post-denominational Christianity: This is a meta-group within Christianity. Different denominational Christians can be post-denominational. Post-denominational Christianity will not become a denomination, because it will be open to all denominational forms of Christianity, and indeed all groups that identify as Christian. Any worship or doctrinal choice will be a matter of taste, or even a matter of believing that one form of worship or element of doctrine is true or right, while remaining open to the possibility of being wrong. To keep from having a centralised character, post- denominational Christians will worship within multiple denominations; it may be helpful for its diversity that post-denominational Christians attend a different denomination each time they move, or that they go to multiple different churches on Sunday or through the week. The only denominational element post-denominational Christianity will come to have is a historical character.

I am a post-denominational Christian. I worship during the week with a group at my university (non-denominational), p ray the morning prayer at a Scottish Episcopalian Church, and attend contemporary Presbyterian worship on Sundays (while twice a month going to Catholic Mass on Saturday evening). I have made meaningful connections within these communities, and am starting to build bridges.

What do you think of this sort of movement? Does anyone here identify with post-denominational Christianity? What problems do you see with it? What would you think about a post-denominational Christian attending Mass?

A more provocative question… what do you think about opening communion to post-denominational Christians?
In a very real way…I would consider myself “post-enominational”…even though I identify as a Friend…I am at home worshipping with my Episcopal brethren, Unitarian brethren, Catholic brethren, Mennonite brethren, Methodist brethren, non-denominational brethren and still find the best “identity” which underscores my own experience with God in the Society of Friends…I am a Christian who finds the best expression of what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ to be among Friends…but I can also worship and serve alongside those who find the best expression of following Christ through the worship and experience of whatever “persuasion” they find meaningful.

The disipline and teachings of the Society of friends help me understand better what it means to follow Jesus of Nazareth…but as I cannot fault anyone else of seeking to find an expression of Truth they are able to grasp and understand and have it make sense to them…that’s not “relativism”…that’s diversity of thought.
 
How do you figure? First, how do you define ‘creed’? Second, how do you think that I have one? What do you think it is?
From the Latin credo, “I believe.” Everyone has a creed. Those who claim to have no creed, have “no creed” as their creed.
I think Joseph is Jesus’s biological father. But I’m open to the possibility that I am wrong, and would change my mind about this in light of new evidence or a strong and convincing argument.
Then you aren’t a Christian, post-denominational or otherwise. I’m not saying that to be harsh, just defining what is and is not a Christian.
 
From the Latin credo, “I believe.” Everyone has a creed. Those who claim to have no creed, have “no creed” as their creed.

Then you aren’t a Christian, post-denominational or otherwise. I’m not saying that to be harsh, just defining what is and is not a Christian.
I disagree that questioning the historicity of the virgin birth disqualifies one from being a Christian. One does not have to believe in a literal “virgin birth” to accept that God was in Christ and in Christ God is disclosed as His Revealed Word in our midst.
 
I disagree that questioning the historicity of the virgin birth disqualifies one from being a Christian. One does not have to believe in a literal “virgin birth” to accept that God was in Christ and in Christ God is disclosed as His Revealed Word in our midst.
I haven’t read the rest of the posts yet (they sound interesting!)… I can say that I at least agree with you about this.
 
I don’t receive Catholic or Orthodox communion (except at the liberal Catholic churches, of course). I understand the doctrine of transubstantiation (as much as it can be understood), and I respect it. I also respect closed communion. I go to mass, but I don’t receive.

Thanks for your response.
Instead of spending all this time and energy making yourself believe that you are original and intellectual, why not adhere to God’s word? God created ONE Church and calls us all to UNITY. Your ideology is completely anti-christian. Are you trying to create a new spin-off for the “new age” movement? That might work for those weak in their faith, but for anyone with grounding in Christ we can see through this kind of farce. Instead of just sitting in the back at Catholic Mass, why not talk to the Priest about attending RCIA and seeing how Christ intended His Children to live and worship as a community and as an individual? Then once you understand Truth, compare it to this self made philosophy and you’ll see how silly it is.
 
I disagree that questioning the historicity of the virgin birth disqualifies one from being a Christian. One does not have to believe in a literal “virgin birth” to accept that God was in Christ and in Christ God is disclosed as His Revealed Word in our midst.
Except that His revealed word states that it was a virgin birth. That would be a falsehood in the divine revelation, which would make it non-divine.
 
Except that His revealed word states that it was a virgin birth. That would be a falsehood in the divine revelation, which would make it non-divine.
No…it would be a literary device used by those who wrote Matthew and Luke to distinguish Jesus of Nazareth using mythology of the time and culture.
 
Lots of people had lots of interesting things to say, and I can’t reply to everyone. I decided here to make a reply to many common statements, taking the shortest and most direct versions. If you think you got skipped over, please let me know, and I’ll try to get back to you.
I think you would have to turn off your brain to adopt such a faith: each of these denominations have contradictory teachings that can’t all be true.
Many people pointed this out. Post-denominational Christians don’t accept all doctrinal teachings as being true. They accept all doctrinal teachings as being uncertain (to a greater or lesser degree), even as they accept some. Each post-denominational Christian, by applying reason to the Bible, and to the natural world, as well as to philosophical speculation, would develop his or her own consistent Christian belief-system, but would qualify this system as uncertain and open to re-interpretation, and would identify those with different systems as Christian and part of one Body.
I suggest you read the early Church Fathers to see why this idea is so wrong.
I think that the Church Fathers were in a similar state of uncertainty that I am in, if not a greater uncertainty, because they don’t have all the history, philosophy and scientific knowledge to draw from.

My favorite Church Father is Origen. I don’t think he would have fit into the modern Catholic Church very well.
Fellowship and having a good Christian community for one’s spiritual home are an important part of the Christian life. This way of living the faith would give its followers only a superficial membership in all of the Christian bodies it frequents. Real integration into a Christian community simply requires more permanence than that.
Possibly. However, at this time, I find that I am very-much part of a single body, the Body of Christ. I am able to work well and form strong friendships between Christians of diverse creeds and beliefs, all of which differ from my own. The constant contact, and therefore the sense of permanence, is established with individuals, families and groups, and not with single denominations.
In addition, there are plenty of churches - like the Catholic and Orthodox ones - who would not ultimately consider such “post-denominational” visitors to be true members of their church.
This is a good point. There will be certain communities which, because of their unique character, could not ever consider me fully part of their community. I am not sure what to do about this, whether to then refuse to attend these communities, or to attend but always as an outsider, or to attend one of these communities that is more open to my own viewpoint, and would welcome me to communion (Liberal Catholic Churches do this).
No, I don’t think so. Let’s say, for instance, a full member of the Catholic Church is “open to the possibility” that the Lord Jesus Christ is not truly bodily present in the Eucharist. That would be a problem.
I suppose it would. Like I said above, I’m not sure what to do about it.
Relativism
Modernism
Unitarian Universalist
New Age
Though these terms each describe aspects of my belief-system, they are not specific enough to define my belief system, let alone this idea of post-denominationalism as a whole. For example, there are many modernists who are not post-denominational. Also, potentially a post-denominationalist could be anti-modernist and anti-relativist, so long as he or she admits that this position may be mistaken, and is accepting of those whom he or she finds to be mistaken.
As you described it, Post-denominational christianity feeds off of denominational christianity. It could not exist without them.
I entirely agree. In fact, many post-denominationalists would find a home more in one sort of denomination than another. But, in a sense, these people would always be travelers, Levites in a sense, going from community to community without a permanent home, save heaven.
  • The whole model fails when too many members stop giving consistently (money/time) and become random visitors, who will give less because they are not really connected with any particular group.
This is a good point. There should be at least one church or other organization which receives the bulk of someone’s time and money, at any one time. For some, this is determined by doctrine or worship. For me, it is determined by which church has the most young families and academics, so that I can work with people at a similar stage in life to myself.
 
For a start a creed is a statement of belief, by stating what defines post-denominational, Christianity you state, if even implicitly, what you believe hence a creed.
If a creed is defined this broadly, then I agree. I have a creed. Post-denominationalism does not have a creed, unless you define belief very broadly, in which case mathematics has a creed, the bus system has a creed, and everyone who uses either math or the bus system (or anything else) has many creeds.

A creed, as I understand it, is a set of religious belief-statements that provide a boundary to a particular religious community, defining what that community believes. Belief statements of any sort cannot be definitions, but have to assert something. Also, creeds don’t dictate action (the Nicene creed doesn’t say, for example, ‘we will tithe 10%’. That’s a misison statement; not a creed).
We are a meta-group within Christianity
Definition.
Any worship or doctrinal choice will be a matter of taste,
We will keep from having a centralised character,
We will worship within multiple denominations;
Actions.

None of these are even beliefs. The one belief post-denominational Christians share, that you mentioned, is that we think we may be wrong. This is a belief many people share about many things.
In some ways, this sounds perfect and just what we need. But I just wonder. If being post-denominational means you need to try to please everyone, there might be parts of the Bible that the pastor would not talk about, such as beliefs of what is sinful and not.
I agree there. There are some things I believe very strongly, and different things others believe. I think pastors are better for being direct, and declaring what they think to be wrong or evil clearly and without reservation. I have never met a pastor I agreed with about everything. I still consider most of those pastors to be, in general, good Christians.
 
One of my favorite CD’s is “City of Gold”…one of the “songs” is the narrator speaking of his creed…“I will one day be able to say my creed in words…” When he stands before God and asks his questions…and God “chews a straw and tells how things Really Are”…then he will be able to “say my creed in words”.

For me…it’s not that I disbelieve the creeds as written…but it’s that the creeds as written do not speak the Fullness of How Things Truly Are…“we see through a glass darkly”…they seek to “state the Truth” …but they are not Truth in themselves.
 
One of my favorite CD’s is “City of Gold”…one of the “songs” is the narrator speaking of his creed…“I will one day be able to say my creed in words…” When he stands before God and asks his questions…and God “chews a straw and tells how things Really Are”…then he will be able to “say my creed in words”.

For me…it’s not that I disbelieve the creeds as written…but it’s that the creeds as written do not speak the Fullness of How Things Truly Are…“we see through a glass darkly”…they seek to “state the Truth” …but they are not Truth in themselves.
Well said. Creeds are useful as a way to describe a projection. They don’t get at the real thing.

I confess creeds (though I’m silent through some parts), but even the parts I say I take with a grain of salt.

Even the works of Thomas Aquinas are, by his own reckoning, ‘so much straw’.
 
No…it would be a literary device used by those who wrote Matthew and Luke to distinguish Jesus of Nazareth using mythology of the time and culture.
That’s a first i never heard the prophet Isaias refered to as mythical 7:14
 
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