No Evidence has been presented as of today

[CindyGia]

SolaChristo:

Padre Pio was visited by Satan.
In fact many men of God were visited by Satan even Jesus was.
(Removed inaccurate and offensive anti-Catholic comment.)

Padre Pio was attacked by demons because of his sanctity which brought masses of people BACK to the Catholic Church - which is why Satan sent demons to attack him. There’s a huge difference here between the visitations of Satan to Padre Pio and Luther.

Luther was successfully tempted and deceived by Satan.

The Church said it’s “mia culpa” after the onslaught of Luther against the corrupt clergy in the Church, but Satan also took this as a fantastic opportunity to unleash his wrath against the Church by deceiving a disgruntled Catholic Monk into starting a “new and improved” reformation against the Church instituted by Christ!

Luther was a pawn in the works of Satan to lead people away from the one true Church of Christ. That Church is the Catholic Church!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

gusano:

Pardon me if I seem rude, I am not.
But I am curious…for the sake of Truth.

OK I’ll try ​

Part of the attraction people have to it, and that others do not, is, based on differences of temperament - some people’s devotional outlook is centred on the Incarnation, others notice the angels, others Our Lord’s Humanity, some find their principal delight in the Blessed Sacrament. St. Benedict’s outlook is informed by awareness of the greatness of God. And so on.

In themselves, certain things are more important than others - the Blessed Trinity is more important than the Church or the Papacy; both logically, and theologically (there could in principle have been an economy of salvation without a Church or a papacy: in actuality, it has pleased God to work by both.)

As we are beggars before God, full of sin, powerless to help ourselves but for God, ISTM that these different attractions answer different needs in us - and that they are hooks by which the Divinely attractive Christ draws us to Himself. There are many emphases - in one mystery of Christ ##

What is it about some branches of Protestantism (not all, only some) who seem to relish the idea
that man should have
NO GLORY ?
no wisdom,
no righteousness,
no honor…
This thinking puts God in a very bad light, …as if He is starved for all the attributes mentioned above; …
self centered, low-esteem, needy , etc.

I think this is the opposite of Why The Word became flesh !

Absolutely not ! On the contrary - it is:​

• because God is so utterly perfect
• because He needs & can need nothing
• because we have nothing at all that has not come from Him
• because He is wholly unequalled
• because He is sovereign over every created being

and for a thousand other reasons, whether they come from our own misery without God, our helplessness to save ourselves, His limitless Providence, or any other source, that some Christians emphasise His Glory so much, and can see nothing in man to honour; can, in fact, not bear the though that man, who is nothing and who cannot even create himself, should be honoured. Man has no honour, no good, no praiseworthiness, that he has not received: so why praise man ? It’s absurd to do that - but God ? God* is* worthy of praise, and the Glory is His alone Christ is our Wisdom, our Righteousness, our honour - compared to Him, all else is dust & ashes. Why look at our “glory” or “wisdom” or “righteousness” when we can be entranced and changed by His ?

ISTM that this emphasis is needed in an age like ours - it utterly destroys all human pride, by emphasising our boundless dependence on our Sovereign God - He puts all this ridiculous ambitions we have in context, because they are worthless without Him.

Apart from anything else, to realise that God alone is glorious, & that we are by ourselves nothing, is a very powerful motive for action. It is liberating - not paralysing.

So I think we are reaching similar conclusions, but by contrary reasonings. So I agree with a lot of your post -with most of it.

Father Faber devotes some pages of “All for Jesus” to the devotional outlook which sees all things through the prism of God’s Glory. It is one of many forms of love of God. ##

Even though God created us GOOD in the beginning, because of the sin of Adam we are all born
Without glory,
with out wisdom,
withour righteousness,
without honor,
without Hope,
without Love
without Truth,
without any likeness of God except for His Image.

Jesus sold all that he had… Mt. 13: 44
Emptied himself, took the form of a slave… Phil 2: 7
to give his own life as a ransom for many… Matt. 20: 28
**I have given them the glory you gave me that they may be one, as we are one…" **John 17: 22

According to the Catholic Faith I received
Jesus comes into this world to give us His very own Nature, the Free Gift of His very own Person, his very own Glory.
Christ in us, God in us, our Hope of Glory
why ?
Because we had none.
He saw our pitiful condition and had Mercy on us.

For us to abase ourselves and reject His Offer of His Glory, is a huge insult
If the Chief of The Apaches offered you His War Bonnet as a Gift to honor you, and you in false humility rejected it…
within one hour you would be skinned alive and staked to the earth for the ants to feast on.

"Do you not suppose that a much worse punishment is due the man who disdains the Son of God,
thinks the Covenant-blood by which he was sanctified to be ordinary,
and insults the Spirit of Grace ?
Heb. 10: 29

Be careful what you hear and accept.
Test every spirit.
Hold on to what is Good, to what is True.

“…a wolf comes along with a heresy on his lips and a Bible verse to sweeten its taste.”

In the Peace of Christ

gusano

 

[Angainor]

gusano:

St. Paul was not a reformer…(very clever attempt, though)
He was an Apostle sent by Jesus Christ.
Huge difference.

I think of Paul as a "re"former for the following reasons:

a) Paul was influential in the shaping of the early Church (i.e. he was an Apostle)

b) Paul was recruited after the Church was initally “formed”.

Apparently the Church was not complete upon its initial "form"ation and benefited from influence of Paul, who helped to "re"form the Church.

 

[SolaChristo]

CindyGia:

Padre Pio was attacked by demons because of his sanctity which brought masses of people BACK to the Catholic Church - which is why Satan sent demons to attack him. There’s a huge difference here between the visitations of Satan to Padre Pio and Luther.

Luther was successfully tempted and deceived by Satan.

You have provided zero facts to back up your statement.
How were the visitations different?
How was Luther successfully tempted?
If the Roman church was not in need of reformation there would never have been a counter Reformation!

 

[SolaChristo]

Semper Fi:

LOL. Protestant revisionism at work again, I see… There were Catholics persecuted in the “reformation” as well, when are you gonna apologize to us for them? They were called traitors, and were brutally murdered. The Church’s land was stolen. Catholics had their altars desecrated, their priests martyred and many forced to convert to protestantism on threat of death. And, I have a correction to make. It took a monk 20 years in to hand copy one Bible. It would probably take a monastary full of monks 3 years. You can say thanks to us for preserving the bible for 2,000 years, only to conspire to keep it from the people (sorry I just don’t buy that). You can say thanks to Martin Luther for splitting Christendom in 40,000 pieces (in the U.S. alone, no doubt).

Why did men and women risk their lives (many gave their lives) to translate and own translated copies of the bible?
If there was translated copies of the venacular in use, there would have been no need to go to ones death to translate one.
An analogy the Chineese government claims there is religious freedom in China. There are Catholic Churches in China. Yet the churches are state controled.
Yes hand printed bibles took a long time to translate and were very expensive. My point is that the Hus/Wycliff//Tyndales would not have been needed had there been more proaction to get the bible to the people, it could have been done and was done after the fact Douay Rheims, a translation of a translation.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

.O most blessèd Light divine,
Shine within these hearts of Thine,
And our inmost being fill!
Where Thou art not, man hath naught,
Nothing good in deed or thought,
Nothing free from taint of ill

So much for any possibility of our ascribing any good to ourselves of any kind whatever - God must supply everything. For we cannot ##

 

[gusano]

Angainor:

I think of Paul as a "re"former for the following reasons:

a) Paul was influential in the shaping of the early Church (i.e. he was an Apostle)

b) Paul was recruited after the Church was initally “formed”.

Apparently the Church was not complete upon its initial "form"ation and benefited from influence of Paul, who helped to "re"form the Church.

Where is the evidence in Scripture ?

That is all ** “Wishful thinking” !**
…from the words of St. Paul;
**“every wind of doctrine that originates in human trickery
and skill in proposing error.” ** Eph. 4: 14

Use of the prefix “RE”
as in “re”- formed…is pure human trickery.
like a wanderer who sneaks onto a freight-train that happens to be going in the direction he wants to go.

**" After all, who is Apollos? and who is Paul?
Simply ministers through whom you became believers, each of them diong only what the Lord assigned them…

Everyone must be careful how he builds. No one can lay a foundation other than the one that has been laid, namely Jesus Christ"…** 1 Cor. 3: 5 & 11

Christianity seen through The New Covenant shows that The Apostles are Christ’s co-workers to build Christ’s Church
with gold, silver, precious stones.
while the reformers build on wood, hay, and straw.

If St. Paul was a reformer (or a “re”-former) why would he write Eph. 2: 19-22 and Eph. 3: 10

Can’t you see that for any man to attempt to “reform” what God is forming is pure arrogance ?

**God is the Architect and Builder of The Church ** Heb. 11: 10
Apollos and St. Paul and we are The co-workers and at the same time the bricks.

In the Kingdom of God there are no reformers.
only "formees"
If there is OBEDIENCE, there is FORMATION . …if there is no obedience , “reformation” is in vain.
The only way out of the wrath of God is obedience resulting from Love and Loyalty.
Just as there are no “super-stars”
only servants.

gusano

 

[gusano]

O most blessèd Light divine,
Shine within these hearts of Thine,
And our inmost being fill!
Where Thou art not, man hath naught,
Nothing good in deed or thought,
Nothing free from taint of ill.

So much for any possibility of our ascribing any good to ourselves of any kind whatever - God must supply everything. For we cannot ##

How about when God ascribes it to one of His own?
"Happy are you when you are insulted for the sake of Christ, for then God’s Spirit in its glory has come to rest on you."
1 Peter 4: 14
"Blest are they who hunger and thirst for holiness;
they shall have their fill." Matt. 5: 6

 

[gusano]

CindyGia:

Padre Pio was attacked by demons because of his sanctity which brought masses of people BACK to the Catholic Church - which is why Satan sent demons to attack him. There’s a huge difference here between the visitations of Satan to Padre Pio and Luther.

Luther was successfully tempted and deceived by Satan.

The Church said it’s “mia culpa” after the onslaught of Luther against the corrupt clergy in the Church, but Satan also took this as a fantastic opportunity to unleash his wrath against the Church by deceiving a disgruntled Catholic Monk into starting a “new and improved” reformation against the Church instituted by Christ!

Luther was a pawn in the works of Satan to lead people away from the one true Church of Christ. That Church is the Catholic Church!

Thanks CindyGia for a major piece of evidence (Posts#79, 81) …that Luther was not…
and Padre Pio was…sent by God…

The major deciding point is whether one is
** led away from** The New Covenant in the Eucharist.
or
**Led into ** The New Covenant in the Eucharist.

That is very clear.

The good that resulted from the reformers’ efforts is because
** “We know that God makes all things work together for the good of those who have been called according to His decree.”** Romans 8: 28

It appears that The testings of Job,
The doctrines of the reformers, and
the actions of homosexual, pedophile priests
and other hardships
are allowed for the purpose of Proving and Strengthening the Faith of all who are called according to His decree.

Thanks again

gusano

 

[CindyGia]

SolaChristo:

You have provided zero facts to back up your statement.
How were the visitations different?
How was Luther successfully tempted?
If the Roman church was not in need of reformation there would never have been a counter Reformation!

**Sorry, I don’t have a home computer so it takes me longer to respond on weekends.

Yes, of course my dearest SolaC, I wouldn’t have expected any less a statement from you. But I don’t think I need to prove Padre Pio was sent by God and Luther was not. Padre Pio healed people, was seen in two places at once, and carried the stigmata. Satan hated St. Pio with a vengence for inspiring people to come back to the Church which is why Padre Pio was consistently attacked by demons. Can you say that about Luther, your “so-called” messenger from God? Luther had no mystical gifts from God. The only mystical thing Luther experienced was seeing and conversing with Satan. I just wanted to include here some of Luther’s statements which I found on-line. Seems to me this guy was pretty demented which, strangely enough, Luther claims to be a characteristic from Satan:

God does not work salvation for fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin vigorously…
Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the abiding place of justice; sin must be committed. (oh really! We as Catholics try not to sin as much as we possibly can!)

Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ], even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders.

As to the common people, … one has to be hard with them and see that they do their work and that under the threat of the sword and the law they comply with the observance of piety, just as you chain up wild beasts.

I almost feel like throwing Jimmy into the stove, as the priest in Kulenberg did. (hmmmm, is this where Hitler got his ideas for genocide?)

I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist.

I myself saw and touched at Dessay, a child of this sort, which had no human parents, but had proceeded from the Devil. He was twelve years old, and, in outward form, exactly resembled ordinary children.

I should have no compassion on these witches; I should burn them all. (Wow! And this coming from a religious person?)

Idiots, the lame, the blind, the dumb, are men in whom the devils have established themselves: and all the physicians who heal these infirmities, as though they proceeded from natural causes, are ignorant blockheads…

The Devil, too, sometimes steals human children; it is not infrequent for him to carry away infants within the first six weeks after birth, and to substitute in their place imps…

…two devils rose from the water, and flew off through the air, crying, ‘Oh, oh, oh!’ and turning one over another, in sportive mockery…

We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews].

What shall we do with…the Jews?..I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings…are to be taken from them.

What shall we do with…the Jews?..I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews.

What shall we do with…the Jews? I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb.

What shall we do with…the Jews?..set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.

What shall we do with…the Jews?..their homes also should be razed and destroyed.

When I was a child there were many witches, and they bewitched both cattle and men, especially children. (How would he know?)

Women…have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children. (Yeeeya! A little chauvanistic no?)

So tenaciously should we cling to the world revealed by the Gospel, that were I to see all the Angels of Heaven coming down to me to tell me something different, not only would I not be tempted to doubt a single syllable, but I would shut my eyes and stop my ears, for they would not deserve to be either seen or heard.(Isn’t that something!)/

**

Padre Pio and all Catholic Saints were true messengers of God. Most of their bodies are incorrupt. Can you say that about any Protestant? No Way!! Here’s a neat little site I found with tons of incorrupt Catholics. Take a look!
members.aol.com/ccmail/incorruptbodies.html

Please see next post…too long…

 

[CindyGia]

**In conclusion, even if I were to provide written statements from Luther himself saying he was deceived by Satan, you would say I provided “zero facts” simply because, like I said previously, Protestants defend their faith to the hilt simply out of pride. Protestants refuse to believe the Catholic Church is the true Church instituted by Christ simply because they have been deceived by outrageous lies brought about by Protestant ministers. But remember this, Christ said “if they persecute me, they will persecute you” (John 15:20)

But I do believe God allowed the reformation to happen to chastise the Church, and to ultimately bring the masses of faithful back to the One True Church of Christ - the Catholic Church. God brings good out of evil. There are also some wonderful Protestants fighting for Christ and bringing the Gospels to the world. There are many devout and loving Protestants and I say God Bless them! But they close their hearts to realizing that they could more than just a “personal relationship” with Christ in that the Catholic Church is Christs’ bride, and He gives Himself Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity to all His faithful “brides” in His one true Church. Protestants don’t know what they’re missing. How could anyone pass that up? And why? It makes no sense. This is the deception of Satan. Very subtle, but so very detrimental to souls.
God Bless.
excerpts from the biography of Padre Pio**:

So many people want to know more about St. Padre Pio. Who is this man who cured the blind, Who could be in two places at the same time, Who spoke many languages in the confessional, Who was a good priest,Who bore the wounds of Christ, Who suffered greatly, Who prayed prayed constantly, Who touched so many lives, Who loved Jesus and Mary, Who had a constant relationship

Padre Pio was a martyr of the confessional. Sometimes he would hear confessions as long as 18 hours a day. He wrote to a friend: “I am well but I am very busy day and night hearing hundreds of confessions daily, I have not a minute left but praise to Christ, who powerfully assists me in my work.”
A fellow friar, Padre Alessio recalls an incident when he entered Padre Pio’s room and found him shivering. The weather was warm but he appeared to be freezing. He later learned that the mystic had been hearing the confession of a man dying high in the snowy mountains. (Taken from "Padre Pio: The True Story by C. Bernard Ruffin) (Excellent Account of Padre Pio’s Life)