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Melchior
Guest
Way to mock God’s work in someones life. Is the Eucharist the only means by which God can bless someone?
Transformed by grace, by God’s mercy and forgiveness in Jesus Christ.
Mel
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Transformed by grace, by God’s mercy and forgiveness in Jesus Christ.
Mel
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Melchior
Guest
Actually the New Testament model is that those first generation Christian heads of fhousehold were baptized and then brought their entire household to be baptized. Of course we see people beleivign first then being baptized - this was the first generation of Christians. How could it be otherwise. But we also see the model of household baptism over and over again in Acts and 1 Corinthians.
The difference believers are to treat their children as believers and bring them to the waters to be brought into the union with Christ. To not baptize your children is to say that your children are little pagans.
Dave
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gusano
Guest
It onlu “SEEMS” that way to you. …in rteality, it is not.
The reason I TRUELY BELIEVE everything about The Eucharist is because Jesus set it up exactly that way.
**Jesus said it,
I believe it,…
That settles it ! **
Jesus replaced the old Covenant with The New Covenant.
When one compares what was required to be a “covenant keeper” in the old,
with what is required to be a “New Covenant keeper” now…
The New Covenant is a piece of cake.
…but to someone in rebellion, even when required to do a small amount,
is TOO MUCH !
When you say** “it seems mean spirited” **
is it because Jesus desires us to eat his flesh and drink his blood,
for the forgiveness of our sins ?
Is that too mean of Him to ask is to do such “a difficult thing” through Faith and Love ?
Jesus is Gentle and Humble of Heart,
gusano
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gusano
Guest
This may seem out of order to you…
I was Baptized when I was “OLD”… less than 2 weeks old…
I was Catechized until age of 16 and I believed “a little”, then gradually" let go of my Faith."
God drew me back at the age of 29 and I became a Believer and was Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
As of today I continue willfuly.
ALLELUIA !
gusano
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gusano
Guest
I am sure there are other lesser ways, health, children, friends, work…
Jesus says (3) things;**
(1). “The Kingdom of God is at hand.
Repent.
Believe The Good News.
Accept Baptism.
(2). UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have NO life in you .
(3). Take it and eat it, take it and drink it…offered for the forgiveness of sins,”**
(brings The New Covenant into force for us, as well as Psalm 32: 1)
If The forgiveness of sins is important to you now and in eternity,
why quibble ?
gusano
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Melchior
Guest
I have no argument with anything you said except that you need to be a Catholic to expereince this. I receive the body and blood every Sunday (so why do you make your kids wait 7 yeas, btw?). But you need to acount for faith in Christ. You yourself talk about a conversion experrience in you previous post. I know many Catholics who are unconverted and many Protestants who are.
If Protestants need the Sacraments, ahtolics need Evangilization as some Catholic said. They Dacraments will do no one a bit of good if they are not truly converted to Christ. That is why you guys love your converts - because Protestants bring somehting into the Church that has been missing for a LONG time.
This alone should show you how God blesses Protestants. Perhpas it is God’s menas of brining life back to many a dead diocese.
Mel
Why quibble about these things.
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gusano
Guest
I don’t recall saying one had to be Catholic to experience this…
I do recognize that Jesus is One Lord,
offers one Faith , one Body and calls us to one Hope…
and He offers The New Covenant in this one context.
I am not aware of any other church or organization through whom God offers this fullness.
others have pieces, fragments, …pieces of the “puzzle”.
I am not sure why the Eastern Orthodox Administers communion to infants, and the RCC waits til age 7,
But I can think of one reason;
"A man should examine himself first; only then should he eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
He who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks a judgement on himself." (1 Cor. 11: 28, 29)
Can an infant examine himself and recognize the body ?
I don’t think so.
The Sacraments will do you MUCH GOOD even if you only know 7%.
Christianity (The Kingdom of God) is like Los Angeles, Ca. (lousy example, I know)
One can be born in L.A. and never see a map of LA, nor read a brochure, yet he is a citizen.
Another can be born somewhere else and get ahold of a Map and Chamber of Commerce literiture…and become excited !
That is the same as saying Catholics voluntarily need The Word of God (Map), to be Enlightened into The New Covenant,
and
Protestants Need The Sacraments to enter beyond their excitement into The New Covenant (The City of LA.)
I hope this lunatic comparrison makes sense !
Yes, Thank God for both, They bring in Conversion to Jesus Christ, and they find what they had beel missing for a long time.
Which should also show you that the FULLNESS is in Christ and in Christ’s Church.
We all need the FULLNESS OF CHRIST’S OFFER.
our biggest obstacle is the attitude:
*“We have it all, and you don’t” *
gusano
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
LOL. Protestant revisionism at work again, I see… There were Catholics persecuted in the “reformation” as well, when are you gonna apologize to us for them? They were called traitors, and were brutally murdered. The Church’s land was stolen. Catholics had their altars desecrated, their priests martyred and many forced to convert to protestantism on threat of death. And, I have a correction to make. It took a monk 20 years in to hand copy one Bible. It would probably take a monastary full of monks 3 years. You can say thanks to us for preserving the bible for 2,000 years, only to conspire to keep it from the people (sorry I just don’t buy that). You can say thanks to Martin Luther for splitting Christendom in 40,000 pieces (in the U.S. alone, no doubt).
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Philthy
Guest
You need to study a bit of logic.
You do not understand the difference between a SUFFICIENT cause and a NECESSARY cause.
Here’s the difference:
“Unless you eat my body…you have no life in you” means that it is a NECESSARY part of having “life”. That is entirely different from how you apparently understand it. Your understanding seems to be more like:
“IF you eat my body…THEN you have life in you”. But this is not the same as the “unless” from above. Simply eating does not guarantee eternal life, and eating unworthily is even worse - that is why the Church restricts communion - just like ALL protestant churches used to do. Then when Scripture changed, these churches no longer restricted communion.
Here is a more understandable comparison:
Unless you are accepted to a college, you will not graduate. Simple and true, right? But lets convert it to the IF, THEN mode from above: IF you are accepted to a college, THEN you will graduate. That is false. Graduation requires more than mere acceptance. Acceptance is NECESSARY, but NOT SUFFICIENT. Got it?
Phil
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Angainor
Guest
gusano said:
Paul
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
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MacroTheeMay
Guest
Luther was a man. Just a man. Anyone with any bent can take him to task for his sins like you can anyone else and blame him for countless divisions. But is this fair?
Again it is hard for any of us to put down our presuppositions for a moment and be really objective. Luther, among others in the Catholic Church, wanted to correct error, not divide.
Luther was never properly debated which is tragic. Instead, the CC tried to kill him as a heretic when all he was teaching was based on Scripture. Luther for his part kept what he could of the CC. But other Reformers came along and took it to the extreme that we find today.
If the CC is to remain the true church, she must be connected to her apostolic past. There are many Catholics that hold to the forgivenss of sins not based on justification by works. This they owe in part to Luther.
Divisions occured when many did not see the need to make stands on Scripture but on their own reason and opinion. Calvin, Zwingli and others.
It is too bad there is not more dialogue. We all suffer from a rather “entrenched” mentality. Little good will might go a long ways here.
Peace,
MacroTheeMay
Again it is hard for any of us to put down our presuppositions for a moment and be really objective. Luther, among others in the Catholic Church, wanted to correct error, not divide.
Luther was never properly debated which is tragic. Instead, the CC tried to kill him as a heretic when all he was teaching was based on Scripture. Luther for his part kept what he could of the CC. But other Reformers came along and took it to the extreme that we find today.
If the CC is to remain the true church, she must be connected to her apostolic past. There are many Catholics that hold to the forgivenss of sins not based on justification by works. This they owe in part to Luther.
Divisions occured when many did not see the need to make stands on Scripture but on their own reason and opinion. Calvin, Zwingli and others.
It is too bad there is not more dialogue. We all suffer from a rather “entrenched” mentality. Little good will might go a long ways here.
Peace,
MacroTheeMay
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Angainor
Guest
That is to say… I believe Paul is a Reformer sent from God (i.e. Jesus).gusano:
Paul
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Nice post
One indication of the Reformation’s origin is this: the very faults which are used as ammunition against Luther and the rest, underline their human frailty - and that is the point: God works through frail, sinful, human beings. That way, no glory can be given to mere men - it will go to God, as this human frailty shows that what happened cannot have been the achievement of mere men, but of God instead.The difficulty is when the Church becomes so dysfunctional that it cannot be reformed without a major upset to wake it up to the full seriousness of its problems.
There needs to be *much *more dialogue ##
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
http://www.theologywebsite.com/etext/luther_galatians1.shtml
When I first took over the defense of the Gospel, I remember what Doctor Staupitz said to me. '“I like it well,” said he, “that the doctrine which you proclaim gives glory to God alone and none to man. For never can too much glory, goodness, and mercy be ascribed unto God.” These words of the worthy Doctor comforted and confirmed me. The Gospel is true because it deprives men of all glory, wisdom, and righteousness and turns over all honor to the Creator alone.
[Commentary on Galatians 1.12]
When I first took over the defense of the Gospel, I remember what Doctor Staupitz said to me. '“I like it well,” said he, “that the doctrine which you proclaim gives glory to God alone and none to man. For never can too much glory, goodness, and mercy be ascribed unto God.” These words of the worthy Doctor comforted and confirmed me. The Gospel is true because it deprives men of all glory, wisdom, and righteousness and turns over all honor to the Creator alone.
[Commentary on Galatians 1.12]
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gusano
Guest
St. Paul was not a reformer…(very clever attempt, though)
He was an Apostle sent by Jesus Christ.
Huge difference.
To my knowledge St. Paul never once said he was a “reformer”
but he said he was an Apostle many times.
Besides…
The reformation came close to 1500 years after St Paul was be-headed in Rome.
BTW,
St. Paul, through the power of the Holy Spirit, “FORMED” (not “reformed”) many Gentiles and some Jews into Christians.
gusano
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gusano
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:## Nice post
One indication of the Reformation’s origin is this: the very faults which are used as ammunition against Luther and the rest, underline their human frailty - and that is the point: God works through frail, sinful, human beings. That way, no glory can be given to mere men - it will go to God, as this human frailty shows that what happened cannot have been the achievement of mere men, but of God instead.
The difficulty is when the Church becomes so dysfunctional that it cannot be reformed without a major upset to wake it up to the full seriousness of its problems.
There needs to be *much *more dialogue ##
"It Can not be reformed…" reminds me of men trying to “steady the Arc of the Covenant” …they were struck dead.
Men trying to “re-form” the Church face the same major upset.
I agree that we need more dialogue.
Dialogue founded on Love of Truth,
Dialogue founded on good will
gusano
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gusano
Guest
Gottle of Geer:
But I am curious…for the sake of Truth.
What is it about some branches of Protestantism (not all, only some) who seem to relish the idea
that man should have
NO GLORY ?
no wisdom,
no righteousness,
no honor…
This thinking puts God in a very bad light, …as if He is starved for all the attributes mentioned above; …
self centered, low-esteem, needy , etc.
I think this is the opposite of Why The Word became flesh !
Even though God created us GOOD in the beginning, because of the sin of Adam we are all born
Without glory,
with out wisdom,
withour righteousness,
without honor,
without Hope,
without Love
without Truth,
without any likeness of God except for His Image.
Jesus sold all that he had… Mt. 13: 44
Emptied himself, took the form of a slave… Phil 2: 7
to give his own life as a ransom for many… Matt. 20: 28
**I have given them the glory you gave me that they may be one, as we are one…" ** John 17: 22
According to the Catholic Faith I received
Jesus comes into this world to give us His very own Nature, the Free Gift of His very own Person, his very own Glory.
Christ in us, God in us, our Hope of Glory
why ?
Because we had none.
He saw our pitiful condition and had Mercy on us.
For us to abase ourselves and reject His Offer of His Glory, is a huge insult
If the Chief of The Apaches offered you His War Bonnet as a Gift to honor you, and you in false humility rejected it…
within one hour you would be skinned alive and staked to the earth for the ants to feast on.
"Do you not suppose that a much worse punishment is due the man who disdains the Son of God,
thinks the Covenant-blood by which he was sanctified to be ordinary,
and insults the Spirit of Grace ?
Heb. 10: 29
Be careful what you hear and accept.
Test every spirit.
Hold on to what is Good, to what is True.
“…a wolf comes along with a heresy on his lips and a Bible verse to sweeten its taste.”
In the Peace of Christ
gusano
Pardon me if I seem rude, I am not.
But I am curious…for the sake of Truth.
What is it about some branches of Protestantism (not all, only some) who seem to relish the idea
that man should have
NO GLORY ?
no wisdom,
no righteousness,
no honor…
This thinking puts God in a very bad light, …as if He is starved for all the attributes mentioned above; …
self centered, low-esteem, needy , etc.
I think this is the opposite of Why The Word became flesh !
Even though God created us GOOD in the beginning, because of the sin of Adam we are all born
Without glory,
with out wisdom,
withour righteousness,
without honor,
without Hope,
without Love
without Truth,
without any likeness of God except for His Image.
Jesus sold all that he had… Mt. 13: 44
Emptied himself, took the form of a slave… Phil 2: 7
to give his own life as a ransom for many… Matt. 20: 28
**I have given them the glory you gave me that they may be one, as we are one…" ** John 17: 22
According to the Catholic Faith I received
Jesus comes into this world to give us His very own Nature, the Free Gift of His very own Person, his very own Glory.
Christ in us, God in us, our Hope of Glory
why ?
Because we had none.
He saw our pitiful condition and had Mercy on us.
For us to abase ourselves and reject His Offer of His Glory, is a huge insult
If the Chief of The Apaches offered you His War Bonnet as a Gift to honor you, and you in false humility rejected it…
within one hour you would be skinned alive and staked to the earth for the ants to feast on.
"Do you not suppose that a much worse punishment is due the man who disdains the Son of God,
thinks the Covenant-blood by which he was sanctified to be ordinary,
and insults the Spirit of Grace ?
Heb. 10: 29
Be careful what you hear and accept.
Test every spirit.
Hold on to what is Good, to what is True.
“…a wolf comes along with a heresy on his lips and a Bible verse to sweeten its taste.”
In the Peace of Christ
gusano
C
CindyGia
Guest
I just wanted to add here that I rented a video about the history of the Catholic Church. It’s a five part series called “The Vatican” and I took it out at the library.
Anyway, it was well known that Luther was visited a few times by Satan while he (Luther) was brooding in his manic depressive state, and Luther would throw his chamber pot at Satan to leave his quarters.
Now you tell me this man wasn’t inspired by Satan to protest against the church institued by Christ and to start a “new religion.” Luther was inspired by evil to lead the masses away from the true Church of Christ.
The only thing Protestants need to contemplate in order to see the truth is that the Catholic Church was instituted by Christ and the Protestant church formed 1500 years later by a mere man. A man who was depressed, bitter, and angry. All characteristics of Satan.
It is solely pride which keeps a Protestant arguing against the truth of the Catholic Church. And pride is the first deadly sin! All Protestants are full of pride! They will argue to the hilt that their religion is the “truth!” I should know, I was Protestant just two short years ago!
Many graces bestowed upon Protestants to recognize “the Truth” of the Catholic Church will bounce off them simply because of pride - because they refuse to hear that the religion they practice is not the Church handed down by Christ!
It’s such a tragedy…
S
SolaChristo
Guest
Padre Pio was visited by Satan.
In fact many men of God were visited by Satan even Jesus was.(Removed inaccurate and offensive anti-Catholic comment.)
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