No Ghosts?

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CHRISTINE77 said:
I found this:

Q. What does the Catholic Church have to say about ghosts?

A. The ghosts that inhabit haunted houses, graveyards, or any other place may indeed be real entities and not always the figment of imagination.

However, the popular idea that they are the spirits of human souls who have died and are trapped here for some reason is not possible. They are much more likely to be demons disguising themselves as the “ghost” or spirit of a human being for the purpose of leading people away from the true faith.

here: bfhu.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/does-the-catholic-church-believe-in-ghosts/

So I was right. They are demons disguising themselves as souls.
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I understand how you read this but remember that God can choose what He wishes and just as Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus, it is certainly possible that Samuel was the spirit to appear for Saul.

The article you referred to above speaks in regard to Ghosts that are stuck on earth and haunt people or houses. It is this scenario the Church speaks of that is traped state that is not possible. If such an activity is deemed present in a particular place as in a Haunting, it is then that the Church believes it is more likely a demonic spirit, not the ghost of a deceased person.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Hi, dancny.

You don’t know, and you probably would not believe, the full story. Here is the full story.

Use a digital camera set for full flash. Take the picture in the dark. Take the picture when you are tired, because tiredness attracts them. The best places to take the picture are places where great sins or crimes have been committed, and graveyards. If you are taking the picture for a virtuous purpose, you can control the orbs with prayers. For example, I asked God to force the orb you see there to pose for me. It did. (I think that it is 1 orb, and not several different ones, because this orb has an odd telltale “tag” on its underside.)

Do you think that I was able to restrict a bunch of “dust particles” to one gravestone?
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The reason it is more effective when one is tired is due to the less activity the brain is performing at that time. As a child or person with limited mental capacity, it is more frequent that the see entities because their brains are not consumed with the activity the adult brain normally is most of the average day.
Remember, although it is not common, the CC strongly recommends we avoid seeking out such entities for the very reason we open ourselves up to the possibility of demonic possession.
 
cheeto1 said:
O.K. the author of your article is b fhu? is that a person?
It states that a spirit from the dead can only be summoned with the permission
of God. Naturally, and trees can only grow upside down with the permission of
God. Has God ever given permission to a person to summon the dead?
On thecontrary, He says He doesn’t allow it. And on the story about the rich man and
Lazarus that was quoted, they conveniently left out verse 26: And that is not all. Between you and us there is fixed a great abyss, so that those who might wish to cross from here to you cannot do so, nor can anyone cross from your side to us.
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Let me understand, so you don’t believe what the Bible, the Old Testamant or the Church says about these things, is that what you are saying?

Again, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus, it is certainly possible that Samuel was the spirit to appear for Saul. Now, I am sure at this time all but Jesus had passed on. Obviously God permitted it.
 
twb1621 said:
Let me understand, so you don’t believe what the Bible, the Old Testamant or the Church says about these things, is that what you are saying?

Again, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus, it is certainly possible that Samuel was the spirit to appear for Saul. Now, I am sure at this time all but Jesus had passed on. Obviously God permitted it.
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Wow, I must be a really poor communicator. You think I don’t believe the Bible
or the church? I believe the bible and the church. But I disagree that there are ghosts, so I bring to your attention the verses that you have not paid attention to. You believe one thing, so you say that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. I believe another, so I ask you to read on to Mt 17:9 where they are coming down the mountain. Here,
Jesus says, “Do not tell anyone of the vision…”. In the story of the rich man and
Lazarus, I bring to your attention Lk 16:26, which says, “And that is not all.
between you and us there is fixed a great abyss, so that those who might wish
to cross from here to you cannot do so, nor can anyone cross from your side to
us.” This verse doesn’t directly address the idea of ghosts, but it contributes to
my personal belief that God doesn’t send ghosts. He may send visions or angels,
but not ghosts. That is my firm belief, and I do believe in the bible, the church,
and the catechism of the Catholic Church. 🙂
 
cheeto1 said:
Wow, I must be a really poor communicator. You think I don’t believe the Bible
or the church? I believe the bible and the church. But I disagree that there are ghosts, so I bring to your attention the verses that you have not paid attention to. You believe one thing, so you say that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. I believe another, so I ask you to read on to Mt 17:9 where they are coming down the mountain. Here,
Jesus says, “Do not tell anyone of the vision…”.

My brother, I do not ignore any of scripture and no scripture contradicts itself. The circumstances you are comparing are not the same which is why their is two references in this discussion. I do not see your point here. they were already passed from this life and nothing says otherwise. That was the point to what I said.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, I bring to your attention Lk 16:26, which says, “And that is not all.
between you and us there is fixed a great abyss, so that those who might wish
to cross from here to you cannot do so, nor can anyone cross from your side to
us.” This verse doesn’t directly address the idea of ghosts, but it contributes to
my personal belief that God doesn’t send ghosts.

They are not Ghosts… additionally, this doesn’t refer to prophets or God’s ability to overcome the Abyss you refer to, God was not in any way mentioned as one of the parties involved in this verse and the person in pergatory was the rich man not a chosen one of God.

He may send visions or angels,
but not ghosts. That is my firm belief, and I do believe in the bible, the church,
and the catechism of the Catholic Church. 🙂
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I wish you would forget the Ghosts thing or stop referring to them as such. For me at least, it is confusing the issue as to what YOU are referring to.

as I said before, no, not “ghosts” and I explained all that. Perhaps that is the confusing issue for you but I made it clear I do not believe in Ghosts or hauntings and certainly do believe in the spirits and the very fact that one of the four Cardinal Virtues (prudence) gifted by the Holy Spirit provides for discernment of the spirit, good or bad, is theologically recognized. However, if you do not accept the existence of "spirits” or God’s capability to permit the appearance of them as He so chooses, you reject the Biblical references and the teachings of the Church in this particular matter and do not accept the interpretation of the Church as presented in the Bible just as I presented previously in post # 5 which is where it came from. Additionally, you must then consider the CC a bit obscure for performing exorcisms as they are considered to be demonic spirits. Both our Lord and our Holy Mother came to many Saints as apparitions not to mention some by Saints as well. These are not ghosts, I agree with that.
 
twb1621 said:
I wish you would forget the Ghosts thing or stop referring to them as such. For me at least, it is confusing the issue as to what YOU are referring to.

as I said before, no, not “ghosts” and I explained all that. Perhaps that is the confusing issue for you but I made it clear I do not believe in Ghosts or hauntings and certainly do believe in the spirits and the very fact that one of the four Cardinal Virtues (prudence) gifted by the Holy Spirit provides for discernment of the spirit, good or bad, is theologically recognized. However, if you do not accept the existence of "spirits” or God’s capability to permit the appearance of them as He so chooses, you reject the Biblical references and the teachings of the Church in this particular matter and do not accept the interpretation of the Church as presented in the Bible just as I presented previously in post # 5 which is where it came from. Additionally, you must then consider the CC a bit obscure for performing exorcisms as they are considered to be demonic spirits. Both our Lord and our Holy Mother came to many Saints as apparitions not to mention some by Saints as well. These are not ghosts, I agree with that.
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So are you saying that Samuel was a Spirit but not a Ghost?
 
And I am saying that is was not the spirit of Samuel, but rather an angel, a demon,
or a vision…not a ghost.
 
cheeto1 said:
And I am saying that is was not the spirit of Samuel, but rather an angel, a demon,
or a vision…not a ghost.
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Really? It seems that it was some form of dead Samuel. At face value, it looks like the witch of Endor raised his spirit (or ghost) from the dead. But are you saying this was really something else masquerading as Samuel? Do you think it was an angel or a demon?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
So are you saying that Samuel was a Spirit but not a Ghost?
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When people for the most part refer to Ghost they refer to a haunting of a place or repeated soghting of what they believe is a spirit stuck in one place unable to leave for some misguided reason. I as well as the Church do not believe that is the soul or spirit of a poor unfortunate person who cannot find the doorway to the beyond. In
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
So are you saying that Samuel was a Spirit but not a Ghost?
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When people for the most part refer to Ghosts they refer to a haunting of a place or repeated sighting of what they believe is a spirit stuck in one place unable to leave for some misguided reason. I as well as the Church do not believe that is the soul or spirit of a poor unfortunate person who cannot find the doorway to the beyond. How many refer to incubus or poltergeist etc. I am in the arena that these forms of apparitions are evil spirits, not ghosts. There is a reason the word “Ghost” was for the most part replaced with the word “Spirit” in prayer.
 
twb1621 said:
When people for the most part refer to Ghosts they refer to a haunting of a place or repeated sighting of what they believe is a spirit stuck in one place unable to leave for some misguided reason. I as well as the Church do not believe that is the soul or spirit of a poor unfortunate person who cannot find the doorway to the beyond. How many refer to incubus or poltergeist etc. I am in the arena that these forms of apparitions are evil spirits, not ghosts. There is a reason the word “Ghost” was for the most part replaced with the word “Spirit” in prayer.
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I think you are correct.
 
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