No Hablo Espanol

[Julianna]

But couldn’t one argue that the church is in a unique position to help instruct people in the local vernacular? The church has the means and the opportunity to begin getting everyone on the same page language wise. Just like they did for my family who spoke only Italian when they came.

As usual, Tim…you’ve hit the nail on the head!

Buona domanda il mio amico

Yes, the church deos have the means and the opportunity to begin getting everyone on the same page language wise. But…it’s more about butts in the pew, than getting people on the same page. Are we to have 2 churches now, one spanish speaking catholic church, and one english speaking? TLM’s…you know what I mean…please don’t barrage me with latin stuff.

 

[Pug]

I lived in Europe for almost four years. In Rome, mass was in Italian. In Paris, mass was in French, in Vienna even asking for a mass in English would get you laughed at.

When I was in Paris, you could hear mass in English. I didn’t, but the opportunity was there.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Simple solution to all of this. Go back to Latin - a universal language for a universal church. BTW Mass is offered in Spanish, French and Vietnamese here on a regular basis and there will be a Maronite Mass offered today in honor of St. Sharbel.

 

[Rolltide]

Simple solution to all of this. Go back to Latin - a universal language for a universal church. BTW Mass is offered in Spanish, French and Vietnamese here on a regular basis and there will be a Maronite Mass offered today in honor of St. Sharbel.

I have NO problem with masses in multiple languages, I think it’s great. We have a wonderful Spanish Mass in our parish. But, for tourists and for parishes where there aren’t priests that speak multiple languages, having a Latin Mass that the parishoners can follow along with gives a universal standard that greatly simplifies the problem.

 

[Sailboat]

I’m surprised that Tim, our Seminarian, isn’t learning Spanish. It’s required in my diocese, I’ve been told. What’s wrong with learning another language. The two great languages of the Western Hemisphere are English and Spanish. Portugese and French are the other two significant ones. That’s only 4 main language for a whole hemisphere, not too bad!

So just why can’t we start teaching our kids Spanish young? It’s really dumb.

 

[JCPhoenix]

I haven’t read all the posts yet, so I might have more to say, but I wanted to respond directly to the OP’s question.

Spanish Masses, Catechism, etc., are NEEDED

Why do I say this? Well, there is a janitor at my office from El Salvador. He hasn’t experienced a great deal of outreach from his own parish, nothing to reinforce the faith. And people are HUNGRY for the Word of God.

So what does he and his family do? They welcome the Jehovahs Witnesses into their livingroom to teach an alternate “gospel”, to tell them everything they have ever learned is wrong, and that they will find salvation at Kingdom Hall.

This man expressed to me the dominating thought that “All religions are the same, anyway, it doesn’t matter. They are taking the time to come to us…why not listen to them? Who else pays attention?”

I had to explain to him in my mostly-forgotten Spanish that there IS a differences, that all religions are NOT the same, and that the JW’s do not believe in the Trinity…so they are not Christian.

This man further explained to me (all in Spanish, by the way–he speaks very little English), that in his country, Christmas is a terrifying time filled with curfews, violence, etc. There is not much worship of the new-born Savior…there is only terror, hiding, and death.

Then they come here to the US and settle…everywhere. Some locals are very amable to the hispanohablantes. Most are indifferent, and in my local area, the Spanish-speaking parishes are extremely not orthodox or faithful to the magesterium.

No wonder they’re leaving…they’re actually being TAUGHT that all religions are the same and it’s all about works, not faith, and they are being lulled by the “outreach”, not the actual obedience to the one True God.

Yes, we need Spanish Masses…we need outreach, we need to make more of an effort to reach out to these people, even if we don’t speak their language.

Remember that bridges are built on the simplest things. I spent a semester in Mexico in college, and it was the little things people did to assist me that I remember the most…when I was lost, it didn’t matter that I was clearly not a native or didn’t always understand…they helped me anyway. Even when my Spanish was horrible and my vocubular insufficient, they applauded my efforts.

Let’s do a better job of making our brothers and sisters feel more at home. Over time, we will both learn from each other and keep more people in the fold, rather than losing them to non-Christian religions. How will we answer on Judgment Day when Jesus asked us how we responded to those who were foreigners in our land?

Will we have to explain that we left them to the liberal-heterodox wolves, or will we answer that we reached out, even insufficiently, just to grasp a hand in welcome?

 

[JCPhoenix]

TimOliv,

I want to let you know I agree…in the corporate “real world” environment. When people come here, they should at least make an effort to learn our language.

I deal with people all the time who make no effort, and it drives me crazy, as it does you.

But when referring to the Church, we are not talking “real world”. We are talking about souls. We are talking about people leaving the faith for seemingly better horizons. We are talking about people not finding their spiritual home in American Catholic churches, and this is a real problem.

So get over the pride thing about forcing everyone to learn the language…and give them one place where they can have peace and worship the Lord in a language they understand.

They go about all the time having to hear the English tongue, and the majority do work to learn the language. Are you suggesting we boot a whole culture from the Church just because they don’t live to your corporate standard?

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s…render unto God what is God’s.

Let us reach out to the Spanish-speaking immigrants in their language, pray and work to help them learn English ourselves…and let God handle it.

Do what you have to to do in the corporate world, but do NOT keep these people from God. They have a RIGHT to worship in their own language, whether your or I like it or not.

I’m also in favor of bringing back Latin as our universal liturgical language.

 

[Julianna]

TimOliv,

I want to let you know I agree…in the corporate “real world” environment. When people come here, they should at least make an effort to learn our language.

I deal with people all the time who make no effort, and it drives me crazy, as it does you.

But when referring to the Church, we are not talking “real world”. We are talking about souls. We are talking about people leaving the faith for seemingly better horizons. We are talking about people not finding their spiritual home in American Catholic churches, and this is a real problem.

So get over the pride thing about forcing everyone to learn the language…and give them one place where they can have peace and worship the Lord in a language they understand.

They go about all the time having to hear the English tongue, and the majority do work to learn the language. Are you suggesting we boot a whole culture from the Church just because they don’t live to your corporate standard?

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s…render unto God what is God’s.

Let us reach out to the Spanish-speaking immigrants in their language, pray and work to help them learn English ourselves…and let God handle it.

Do what you have to to do in the corporate world, but do NOT keep these people from God. They have a RIGHT to worship in their own language, whether your or I like it or not.

I’m also in favor of bringing back Latin as our universal liturgical language.

Better yet,…how about calling the local community college and offer the parish hall as an ESL class learning site. Or if one of your parishoners is a foreign language teacher at the public or catholic high school, who could share/time and talent by offering to teach english to the spanish speaking immigrants at the parish hall once a week. Invite high school students who are learning spanish to care for the children while their parents are in ENGLISH class.

Sounds win-win to me. You keep the new immigrants in the church by teaching them how to live as Americans, (by learning english)…you provide a place and time for them come to learn…and there you have ministry for your youth…all wrapped in one neat package.

 

[TimOliv]

I’m also in favor of bringing back Latin as our universal liturgical language.

Just think of all of the problems that could alleviate.

 

[dulcissima]

Just think of all of the problems that could alleviate.

I agree. That would be pretty cool.

 

[gmarie21]

:

What I am saying is that people coming to America should be encouraged to learn the language so that we don’t rely solely on Spanish Masses forever.

When I was still in the business world I conducted an interview for an entry level position. A gentleman came in with his wife, who translated for him. He had lived in America for 12 years. For 12 years he lived in our country and knew not one word of English.

I don’t care how many people of one country settle anywhere in Europe, the Europeans just plain don’t tolerate that.

If you don’t like that example, how many Americans would it take to settle in Central or South America before the local bishops required their priests to offer English mass to the “largest minority” of English speaking people from America?

Well my Italian great grandparents NEVER learned English when they came here from Sicily, but they told their children that they must learn English. My grandfather (who was their first born, born in Sicily) never taught his children (my mother included) Italian (which is a shame). Many adult immigrants never learned English, but their children did.

In my area of the country one can hear mass in Latin, English, Sign, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Chinese, Viatnamese, Korean. The Polish community has a very strong outreach program. The Hispanic outreach is slowly picking up but I’m assuming this is b/c of all the other faith communities outreaching in Spanish and using Our Lady of Guadalupe to attract those who only speak Spanish.

BTW, I attended a mass yesterday that was celebrated in English and Spanish at the same time.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m going to say this again. I am not against the mass in spanish. However, your calling not offering it an abuse is a fallacy. If all of us move to France do you think the French church will offer the mass in English to us?

Yes, they would.

When Americans and English were in France to liberate them from the Nazis, Mass was available in English, along with many other goods and services.

Even in business, the language used is typically the language of the customer. If I want you to do business with me (I want your money) I learn and speak Italian. If you want my money, you learn to speak English. The directional flow of the money determines the language to be used - if I want yours, I speak your language, and if you want mine, you speak my language.

Do we want the Spanish-speaking immigrants to participate in and give to the Catholic Church? Then, yes, we provide Masses for them and Confession for them in Spanish.

 

[aimee]

I support outreach as much as the next guy. But what I notice is that there is an increasing demand for Spanish Masses, Catechism and pretty much everything.

There was a time when one could go to a Catholic church and depending on where it was located in town, the local vernacular was Polish, German, Italian or pretty much anything under the sun.

But we broke down those ethnic barriers. Now, despite some residual ethnic leanings, we can enjoy mass in English anywhere we go.

Then again, back in the old days, our families had the common ground of the Latin Mass…

So what does everyone think of Masses and classes in Spanish? Should we simply offer more in the native tongue of another nation? Or should the church be trying to make larger strides in teaching our new fellow Americans the language of our lands?

Lets have Mass in Français:thumbsup:

 

[aleks]

I support outreach as much as the next guy. But what I notice is that there is an increasing demand for Spanish Masses, Catechism and pretty much everything.

There was a time when one could go to a Catholic church and depending on where it was located in town, the local vernacular was Polish, German, Italian or pretty much anything under the sun.

But we broke down those ethnic barriers. Now, despite some residual ethnic leanings, we can enjoy mass in English anywhere we go.

Then again, back in the old days, our families had the common ground of the Latin Mass…

So what does everyone think of Masses and classes in Spanish? Should we simply offer more in the native tongue of another nation? Or should the church be trying to make larger strides in teaching our new fellow Americans the language of our lands?

I don’t see any harm to do Mass,Cathesism,confessions,etc. in Spanish.I believe they have the right to it.

Cheers
Aleks.

 

[TimOliv]

Yes, they would.

When Americans and English were in France to liberate them from the Nazis, Mass was available in English, along with many other goods and services.

Even in business, the language used is typically the language of the customer. If I want you to do business with me (I want your money) I learn and speak Italian. If you want my money, you learn to speak English. The directional flow of the money determines the language to be used - if I want yours, I speak your language, and if you want mine, you speak my language.

Do we want the Spanish-speaking immigrants to participate in and give to the Catholic Church? Then, yes, we provide Masses for them and Confession for them in Spanish.

Mass was available to servicemen because the military supplies American chaplains.

 

[Sheeniac]

I lived in Europe for almost four years. In Rome, mass was in Italian. In Paris, mass was in French, in Vienna even asking for a mass in English would get you laughed at. So really I’m failing to see which countries supposedly cater to a minority of people who do not speak an official language of that country.

I’ve gone to Mass in Italy that was in English, and there are ones in Rome as well.

 

[Sheeniac]

One of the Churches near me took an empty Mass time and decided to offer Mass in Polish. It is now jam packed / standing room only. Polish people come from all over to attend it. I am so happy they’ve done this. They have a visiting priest come for the service. I think we also have Spanish masses.

Not everyone is skilled at learning languages, so while I think language is an important part of assimilating, it hasn’t been done by every ethnic group of old. Mainly the kids learn it.

Priests are responsible to help souls get to God, through the Church. We are a Church and nation of immigrants, so we should extend ourselves the best we can.

Pax tecum, Juli

 

[jmcrae]

Our city is small compared to most cities, (just under one million people) but we have Masses available in several major world languages, in our Diocese - Korean, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Hungarian, Polishand Cantonese, at least - there are probably others, as well.

I also know for sure that you can go to Confession in Vietnamese and in Tagalog - and from time to time, there are Tagalog Masses at our parish, for special occasions, but they aren’t available weekly. (Our Pastor is Filipino, but he doesn’t speak Tagalog very well - he comes from a tiny village where they speak something else, instead. He tells me that his Tagalog is even worse than his English. )

 

[lel]

It’s such an interesting phenomenon to watch the English-speaking and the Spanish-speaking sides of a church interact. My parish is pretty roughly half and half, and I’ve gone to Spanish Mass sometimes. It’s very interesting to see how they work together and separately.

I say go for it, offer Mass in any language, but the real challenge is uniting one parish even when there are multiple languages…sometimes I wonder how the Church does it (then I realize, silly, must be God in it)!

 

[wjp984]

Este es America y en este pais nosotros hablamos ingles. What scares me is if there ever is a time when there are more Spanish masses than English masses. There are more of them than us now so I don’t know. If they keep it at one spanish mass only then that is fine with me. However, the parish I go to where I am from does not have a Spanish mass since it is one of the few parishes where there is not a demand for it.