No Hope for Single Mothers in Catholic/Christian faith

[ahollars]

Please don’t tell me you’re OK with that. Did he at least pay child support? Didn’t you ONCE say to yourself “I wish I could bench more so that I could drag him tro open spar night to “talk” some sense into him”? Did ANYONE in your family try to tell him “You break it, you bought it”?

No, I wasn’t okay. I was 13!!! I don’t know what my Dad told him, but it was enough to keep him away. You’re overlooking one fact. In most states, fathers who do not pay child support have no visitation rights at all. This can be a good thing, and it was in my sisters case, and in my wife’s case.

Considering this whole thread was inspired by a bad reaction to a parish giving positive recognition to people who “held out” until marriage, I think that people need to see it from the virgins’ point of view. Face it, a virgin/non-virgin mix has as one of its issues that the virgin may feel shortchanged (and no, confession does NOT reverse that any more than it reverses an STD or reassembles an aborted baby lying in pieces behind a clinic in a dumpster), whether or not a child is born from the fornication. Now, some people can handle it (maybe they are just young and horny and are just grateful to legally have sex with someone), but for others it causes emotional pain and worrying (this is a theme that often pops up in CAF), so if a person does not want to deal with it, that’s a prudent move on their part.

And as far as my harsh words about “fornicating bums”, well, they are posioning the dating pool with their promiscuity. So considering how much trouble they have caused and how much difficulty they cause others, I have no sympathy for them.

Are they all the same to you? No such thing as a case by case basis no matter what?

Once, my parents had that same mentality. They were both virgins when they married, yet their example wasn’t enough to keep four of their seven children (myself included) on the right path. Ask yourself, if you have children, and they screw up, even after everything you’ve taught them, will you look at them with as much disdain as you do to others? Be honest, and as any parent can tell you, if you think it can’t happen to your kids, then you’re not paying attention.

And what about converts like my wife who were not taught anything at all by their parents? I don’t know how I knew she was the one for me. I just did. Her interest in the Catholic Church sealed the deal. To each his own, I guess, but please don’t refer to it as poison.

I hope you find what you are looking for. By your name, I take it your 26-27ish. You still have time. Good luck on your journey. That’s all from me.

 

[whatevergirl]

Please don’t tell me you’re OK with that. Did he at least pay child support? Didn’t you ONCE say to yourself “I wish I could bench more so that I could drag him tro open spar night to “talk” some sense into him”? Did ANYONE in your family try to tell him “You break it, you bought it”?

Considering this whole thread was inspired by a bad reaction to a parish giving positive recognition to people who “held out” until marriage, I think that people need to see it from the virgins’ point of view. Face it, a virgin/non-virgin mix has as one of its issues that the virgin may feel shortchanged (and no, confession does NOT reverse that any more than it reverses an STD or reassembles an aborted baby lying in pieces behind a clinic in a dumpster), whether or not a child is born from the fornication. Now, some people can handle it (maybe they are just young and horny and are just grateful to legally have sex with someone), but for others it causes emotional pain and worrying (this is a theme that often pops up in CAF), so if a person does not want to deal with it, that’s a prudent move on their part.

And as far as my harsh words about “fornicating bums”, well, they are posioning the dating pool with their promiscuity. So considering how much trouble they have caused and how much difficulty they cause others, I have no sympathy for them.

*Norseman…not that what you say makes no sense, but I was a virgin when I married, and my dh wasn’t. I didn’t have hang ups over it…and I also don’t believe being a virgin made me a better wife, to be honest. I wasn’t the greatest wife in the beginning… I was quite immature…just because I chose to save myself for my husband, didn’t mean I was mature. That is often a misconception of virgins…that virginity means automatic emotional maturity. Just because a person saves him/herself for marriage, doesn’t mean that they are ready for all that marriage requires. Just food for thought.

One’s prior sexual past has really no bearing on how successful their marriage is going to be. If the person who had sex prior brought std’s into the relationship, yes, of course that would hurt the couple…but, that is not what you’re speaking of. Now, did I think AT ALL about my dh’s past ‘life,’ before me? Yes, I did…but, there comes a point when you are embarking on a new life with the person you married…and you have to move forward, if in fact you did marry that person.

That being said, if someone refuses to date a non virgin, so be it. That is his/her choice, also. But, I think it’s highly speculative on your part to presume that virgins can’t have successful marriages with non-virgins. And…one being a virgin prior to marriage does NOT guarantee that he/she will be a great spouse. AND–that virgins feel ‘shortchanged,’ that is a bit judgemental…I know you feel passionately about this, and good for you–don’t change! If this is important to you, that is great. I don’t think though that if a virgin marries a non virgin, that somehow they feel let down, or that the non virgin is going to make a poor spouse. That is your opinion, but not an across the board fact, I don’t think.

Just my ramblings. :thankyou:*

 

[cephas161619]

Considering this whole thread was inspired by a bad reaction to a parish giving positive recognition to people who “held out” until marriage, I think that people need to see it from the virgins’ point of view. Face it, a virgin/non-virgin mix has as one of its issues that the virgin may feel shortchanged (and no, confession does NOT reverse that any more than it reverses an STD or reassembles an aborted baby lying in pieces behind a clinic in a dumpster), whether or not a child is born from the fornication. Now, some people can handle it (maybe they are just young and horny and are just grateful to legally have sex with someone), but for others it causes emotional pain and worrying (this is a theme that often pops up in CAF), so if a person does not want to deal with it, that’s a prudent move on their part.

And as far as my harsh words about “fornicating bums”, well, they are posioning the dating pool with their promiscuity. So considering how much trouble they have caused and how much difficulty they cause others, I have no sympathy for them.

Haven’t you read how there is more joy in heaven from one repentant sinner than from 99 just ones? No one is advocating going out and sinning, but if someone repents, let’s welcome them! You remind me of the older brother…

I knew someone was going to try to play the St. Joseph card…

St. Joseph was told by an angel in a dream that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. I highly doubt that this is also the case in the posts here. And if it is, I think there would be some very serious theological consequences.

St. Joseph had the help of a dream, but he still didn’t understand everything, and he was caring for a child that was not his biologically. There is some basis for the comparison, even if it’s not a perfect comparison. St. Joseph is a model that all men would do well to imitate. I suggest you speak with him more frequently.

 

[shannyk]

What a sad sad thread.

I often wonder if people realize or care that many more people read these threads than respond to them and when you type here, as a Catholic, your words are a mirror of our Faith. I just wonder if anyone cares about that or if everyone just cares about being right.

And I wonder who gets to decide who is a CINO? I mean wow, because someone sinned in their past they’re not ‘really’ Catholic anymore? Is that what is being asserted here?

And what of a person who has lost their virginity within the confines of marriage but are no longer married? Does that person count as a broken charity case too? Or is it just the baby mammas?

 

[jorgeraul3]

I knew someone was going to try to play the St. Joseph card…

St. Joseph was told by an angel in a dream that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. I highly doubt that this is also the case in the posts here. And if it is, I think there would be some very serious theological consequences.

I wasn’t trying to play any card, just trying to give someone my opinion and some hope…

Why does it anger you so much that I would wish a non-virgin find someone saintly to spend their life with?

 

[cthulhubryan]

I knew someone was going to try to play the St. Joseph card…

St. Joseph was told by an angel in a dream that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. I highly doubt that this is also the case in the posts here. And if it is, I think there would be some very serious theological consequences.

True, I highly doubt that anyone has been told by an angel that the child is the Son of God.

But remember, St. Joseph is not just the head of the Holy Family and Jesus’ foster father. He also serves as an example to us all. We are foster/adoptive parents and you better believe I spend a lot of time asking St. Joseph for assistance.

It is the example of St. Joseph that matters, not the individual details.

 

[Charlotte408]

…“fornicating bums”…posioning … how much trouble they have caused …I have no sympathy for them.

I bet that when Mary became pregnant with Jesus, if she had let it be publicly known that Joseph was not the father…this is the same response she would have received…I wonder, how ANY man, especially a catholic man, could speak in such a way about ANY MOTHER…and still have respect for OUR mother…



For all that have posted less than respectful thoughts in regards to mothers, wether they be single, unwed, wed, divorced, or widowed…I’m praying a heartfelt prayer for you tonight for compassion…I already say prayers for ALL mothers and children of the world EVERY night so don’t worry, I know we walk in His light as long as we follow the path Mary has set for us <33

 

[TeresaAnn]

The last thing I would want to be is some knight in shining armor for some charity case. I wouldn’t have any problem dating a single mom as long as there isn’t too much baby daddy drama but I really don’t want to have the extra responsibility of having to fulfill and amend someone else’s life.

Tosk, don’t worry about it. From your words you don’t sound worthy enough anyway. Rest easy.

 

[Tosk]

Tosk, don’t worry about it. From your words you don’t sound worthy enough anyway. Rest easy.

I was responding to ahollars saying good catholic men should look for broken dependent women for their wives. If I were looking for a wife I would be looking for a independent, intelligent, Catholic women. I would be looking for a helpmate not some poor broken soul who I have to save from the ashes of a disastrous and sinful relationship she got herself into. Believe me I have 3 adult dependents and the last thing I need is another as a wife.

 

[budgie2]

Just to go back to the OP, I’ve got a cousin who was a single mother called Maria with one son and she met a German guy and got married and now has 6. They seem to be going strong and she’s becoming more religious and wants her marriage blest. So touch wood their marriage will last. I think some people would look up to you in the Church as you decided to keep your baby when it was difficult and a lot of women don’t. I’ve also got a husband who’s adopted and I think keeping your baby is superior to adoption.

 

[monorail]

I think some people would look up to you in the Church as you decided to keep your baby when it was difficult and a lot of women don’t.

Amen! God bless you for keeping your baby.

OP, as a mom, you have a very special and important vocation in the church! You are the steward of your little one, and are to help her become a saint someday. That’s a really big role. And as (I assume) sole custodian of your daughter, you are even more instrumental in her faith formation.

The Church teaches that it is ideal for children to be the offspring of a married couple, partly because of the graces from the sacrament of matrimony “help [married couples] in welcoming and educating their children,” (CCC 1641) and we can use all the grace we can get, right? So I don’t think you should see this as criticism or exclusion of you. Understand that the Church’s teachings have the best interests of everyone at heart so She must catechize this ideal, though (repentant) people who fall short of the ideal are loved and no less important.

 

[ahollars]

I was responding to ahollars saying good catholic men should look for broken dependent women for their wives. If I were looking for a wife I would be looking for a independent, intelligent, Catholic women. I would be looking for a helpmate not some poor broken soul who I have to save from the ashes of a disastrous and sinful relationship she got herself into. Believe me I have 3 adult dependents and the last thing I need is another as a wife.

That is not what I said, and people here can read it themselves. Go back and read any of my previous posts if you want. Single mother = broken home/family, not broken woman. A good Catholic man is exactly what is needed. Telling Dad to step up is not the answer in many cases.

And no one answered my questions:

What about converts, like my wife? (I suppose I should have let her just find her own way to heaven, if she found it at all)

Would you treat your own daughter with the same level of disdain? (Oh wait, that’s different, right)

Saying that it’s not for you is one thing (though how you could possibly know that is presumptuous on many levels). What you have said here in this thread is dishonorable. Your job as a husband IS to save your wife from the ashes. That will happen no matter who you marry, virgin or not. You have a lot to learn.

 

[TeresaAnn]

I was responding to ahollars saying good catholic men should look for broken dependent women for their wives. If I were looking for a wife I would be looking for a independent, intelligent, Catholic women. I would be looking for a helpmate not some poor broken soul who I have to save from the ashes of a disastrous and sinful relationship she got herself into. Believe me I have 3 adult dependents and the last thing I need is another as a wife.

That’s fine. What kind of single mother would want to be strapped to someone who thinks they are broken, dependent, unintelligent and needs to be saved from a “disastrous and sinful ???” relationship that she got her self into? LOL!!!

Trust me, I think you’re pretty safe, I’m sure the ladies aren’t breaking down your door.

I’ll just say this. Since my marriage ended 6 1/2 yrs ago, I don’t date and I won’t. Despite pressure I have received from more than a couple decent men. ( sorry if this sounds conceited, I’m not, but it does happen)

The horrific part is I have 4 pieces of baggage!!! I must be REALLLLY dumb, an uber sinner and a total mess!! Please don’t ask me out, I will have to decline, sorry

 

[shannyk]

I was responding to ahollars saying good catholic men should look for broken dependent women for their wives. If I were looking for a wife I would be looking for a independent, intelligent, Catholic women. I would be looking for a helpmate not some poor broken soul who I have to save from the ashes of a disastrous and sinful relationship she got herself into. Believe me I have 3 adult dependents and the last thing I need is another as a wife.

What about single motherhood excludes one from being independent, intelligent, and Catholic?

Look, if you don’t want more responsibility because you are overtaxed as is, then say that. That’s fine. On another thread I mentioned I didn’t want a work a holic career driven husband with a demanding job that takes away from family time. That is just a matter of preference. But for you to decide that all single mothers don’t fit your criteria of being independent, intelligent and Catholic simply because they’re single mom’s, is wacky.

 

[Tosk]

That’s fine. What kind of single mother would want to be strapped to someone who thinks they are broken, dependent, unintelligent and needs to be saved from a “disastrous and sinful ???” relationship that she got her self into? LOL!!!

Trust me, I think you’re pretty safe, I’m sure the ladies aren’t breaking down your door.

I’ll just say this. Since my marriage ended 6 1/2 yrs ago, I don’t date and I won’t. Despite pressure I have received from more than a couple decent men. ( sorry if this sounds conceited, I’m not, but it does happen)

The horrific part is I have 4 pieces of baggage!!! I must be REALLLLY dumb, an uber sinner and a total mess!! Please don’t ask me out, I will have to decline, sorry

I don’t think that single moms are any worse off than anybody else just maybe a little “unlucky”. A lot of people could be single parents they’re just good with contraception, had an abortion, or some other third thing. I was responding to ahollars saying that catholic men should go out and specifically look for broken women to mend what is broken. Sorry if it came across wrong.

 

[TeresaAnn]

I don’t think that single moms are any worse off than anybody else just maybe a little “unlucky”. A lot of people could be single parents they’re just were good with contraception, had an abortion, or some other third thing. I was responding to ahollars saying that catholic men should go out and specifically look for broken women to mend what is broken. Sorry if it came across wrong.

That’s ok, you just have to realize that not all (maybe not many?) single mothers fit the stereotype. Some of us are doing just fine or better than fine.

I was coming back to the thread to apologize for the tone I had as well. All is good.

 

[Tosk]

That is not what I said, and people here can read it themselves. Go back and read any of my previous posts if you want. Single mother = broken home/family, not broken woman. A good Catholic man is exactly what is needed. Telling Dad to step up is not the answer in many cases.

Many women, like my sister, have a good family and a nice life even after being left as single moms and don’t need Catholic Dad to come in and rescue them.

And no one answered my questions:

What about converts, like my wife? (I suppose I should have let her just find her own way to heaven, if she found it at all)

You really think the best way to show somebody to heaven is marry them?

Saying that it’s not for you is one thing (though how you could possibly know that is presumptuous on many levels). What you have said here in this thread is dishonorable. Your job as a husband IS to save your wife from the ashes. That will happen no matter who you marry, virgin or not. You have a lot to learn.

I always thought that marriage was a partnership of two people based on mutual love and respect with the purpose of raising a family. What you are describing sounds more like the job description for a superhero or a therapist.

 

[cthulhubryan]

I was responding to ahollars saying good catholic men should look for broken dependent women for their wives. If I were looking for a wife I would be looking for a independent, intelligent, Catholic women. I would be looking for a helpmate not some poor broken soul who I have to save from the ashes of a disastrous and sinful relationship she got herself into. Believe me I have 3 adult dependents and the last thing I need is another as a wife.

Be open to where God leads you. Sometimes the bests of things can happen when others think you are merely “rescuing” some woman only to find that she rescued you right back.

 

[whatevergirl]

Be open to where God leads you. Sometimes the bests of things can happen when others think you are merely “rescuing” some woman only to find that she rescued you right back.

aw. That makes me want to cry. That is such a sweet thing to say!

 

[ahollars]

Many women, like my sister, have a good family and a nice life even after being left as single moms and don’t need Catholic Dad to come in and rescue them.

It’s not rescuing. It simply a matter of accepting opportunity. My statement was not a call to men to go out and actively seek, but you did say that you actively shun the situation and won’t even consider it. Children are supposed to have fathers. If one is available and worthy, then why not? A lack of virginity doesn’t lead to unstable fidelity if the marriage is in good faith, and everything is done properly by the man and the woman. You’re assuming that it will, and that’s being pessimistic.

You really think the best way to show somebody to heaven is marry them?

I didn’t decide to marry her because I thought she needed me. I decided to marry her because I knew I could trust her. That’s not an answer anyways. Do you think women should just make it work on their own or wait for the ex to see the light? Again, my wife wasn’t taught right by her parents, and by the time she found the Church, she already had a child. Is that her fault? Her baptism at the age of 23 washed all of that away, but if it were up to you, that’s still not good enough. How fair is that?

I always thought that marriage was a partnership of two people based on mutual love and respect with the purpose of raising a family. What you are describing sounds more like the job description for a superhero or a therapist.

I am a superhero.

Marriage is not a partnership, per se. It is a vocation, just as holy as a vocation to the religious life, because marriage is religious life. As morally offensive as it would be for one to pretend to be a priest and act as one, it is equally offensive for one to pretend to be married to someone who is not the spouse and act as one. The personal sacrifice made by priests is just as much an offering as the sacrifice made by married couples. A priest sacrifices for his parish. A couple sacrifices for the family, and this sacrifice comes with a mortal responsibility.

Read Ephesians 5, and compare what is asked of men to what is asked of women. Men are to give themselves as Christ did the Church. Women are to submit themselves. Keep in mind that submission is about trust, not will. Christ gave His life for His Church. Partnership implies that the sacrifice is equal between the two. Perhaps they are equal before God, but they are certainly different. Like Christ, men are called to give their lives for their wives and children. If that means they must give of themselves to death, then so be it, and any man who is not willing or able to do so is unfit to be married.

As for saving from the ashes, yes, I believe it is true. Think about it: if you are married and your wife, or one of your children, does not make it to heaven, do you think you will not have to account as to why? If you tell God, “I did everything I could”, it had better be true.

Am I making sense yet?