No hope for Trindentine mass?

[lcalise]

oat soda:

Between the negative response bishops displayed towards the tridentine mass at the synod, and B16’s current silence on the “reform of the reform”, it appears that the tridentine mass is written off to die a slow death and that our Latin traditions will be lost by in large.

Why hasn’t the pope focused his efforts to reform or improve the celebration of the Roman Rite? Especially those reforms outlined in his book “The Spirit of the Liturgy”?

I have much higher hope for the Latin Mass, just because it is what a large number of people want. The Pittsburgh Latin Mass community is growing with more and more young people because most find it more spiritually awakening.

Plus, don’t forget that these lackluster bishops and priests who were around for Vatican II will be gone soon enough. I know that sounds harsh, but let’s face it. Most of the Church’s problems are from those few decades of priests. I have high hopes for the new blood I’ve seen going in and coming out of the seminaries… very pro-orthodoxy and pro-Latin.

 

[lcalise]

lcalise:

I have much higher hope for the Latin Mass, just because it is what a large number of people want. The Pittsburgh Latin Mass community is growing with more and more young people because most find it more spiritually awakening.

Plus, don’t forget that these lackluster bishops and priests who were around for Vatican II will be gone soon enough. I know that sounds harsh, but let’s face it. Most of the Church’s problems are from those few decades of priests. I have high hopes for the new blood I’ve seen going in and coming out of the seminaries… very pro-orthodoxy and pro-Latin.

Just a note, I’m not knocking Vatican II. I’m knocking that generation of priests, bishops, et. al. who just happened to come around circa Vatican II as a time frame.

 

[maber43]

Icalise,
I am from the east side of Pittsburgh (Turtle Creek). This Indult Mass being held at St. Boniface on the North Side? I hope it’s safe there. My wife and I are thinking about attending mass there. We’re not too happy about NO mass.
Thanks and God bless!

 

[Kielbasi]

I am from the east side of Pittsburgh (Turtle Creek). This Indult Mass being held at St. Boniface on the North Side? I hope it’s safe there

You have nothing to be concerned about, the section of North Side that the church is in has been depopulated, there are only 20 or so frame homes adjacent to the church, no stores, no open air drug markets, basically St. Boniface is all that’s there and the interstate highway across the street.

Just make sure that you make the right when you get off of I 279 at Hazlett. If you go straight, you’ll end up in Northview Heights which is a rather notorious housing project.

 

[GoLatin]

Servus Pio XII:

Except when it came to ex-communicating traditionalists…like the SSPX.

Perhaps I get to worked up, best to leave it be I suppose…

The excommunications of 1988 had to happen. Archbishop Lefebvre and company went against the Pope when those illicit consecrations happened.

Yes, we want action on everything, but I think that we should be grateful that at least the Pope took action on the SSPX back in 1988.

 

[makin503]

Why does everyone have such a mood of relief and gratefulness that the SSPX was allegedly excommunicated? Were or are they an order to fear? They are only continuing a catholicism that was in effect for over 600 years, or since the Council of Trent. Perhaps Archbishop Lefebre disobeyed JPII but he did so out of fear of losing all traditionalism. The SSPX is recognized by Rome. All priests have the inherent right to celebrate the Tridentine Mass anytime. In my area, the SSPX chapels are not supported by the Archdiocese but they are recognized and included in archdiocesan communications. Why are most Catholics so afraid of the past? Are we too lazy to live a truly Catholic life?

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Makin503:

I think a lot of people feel really threatened by these people. I disagree with them about many of their conclusions, but I can’t say they aren’t living better lives than I am, or that they aren’t standing up for the teachings of the Church or examining their consciences or confessing their sins. For those who aren’t willing to examine their consciences or stand up for the teachings of the Church or who think the Church has become a cafeteria, that’s very threatening.

People who feel threatened by others will celebrate bad things that hppen to them and be very intolerant of them…

makin503:

Why does everyone have such a mood of relief and gratefulness that the SSPX was allegedly excommunicated? Were or are they an order to fear? They are only continuing a catholicism that was in effect for over 600 years, or since the Council of Trent. Perhaps Archbishop Lefebre disobeyed JPII but he did so out of fear of losing all traditionalism. The SSPX is recognized by Rome. All priests have the inherent right to celebrate the Tridentine Mass anytime. In my area, the SSPX chapels are not supported by the Archdiocese but they are recognized and included in archdiocesan communications. Why are most Catholics so afraid of the past? Are we too lazy to live a truly Catholic life?

…I don’t believe the SSPX was excommunicated - Just Archbishop Lefebre and his group, and that was because he consecrated BISHOPS in defiance of a direct order from Rome. I just wonder when the same standard is going to be applied to Heretical Bishops on the other side…

I’m sure a lot of “Progressives” would be quite upset if that happened - but then maybe they’d understand how Lefebre’s followers feel and be able to show a little empathy and pray for them instead of celebrating the excommunications.

The Mass of Pope Paul VI is the normative Mass, but there is no requirement that priests say every Mass in the Vernacular, They are encouraged to do as much of the Mass as they and their congregations can do reverently and with understanding. That means, if the Congregation and Priest wish to the 1071 Mass in Latin, it’s allowed - NO dispensation required.

Only the Tridentine Latin Mass requires the OK of the local Ordinary (which the Indult encourages Ordinaries to issue) for it to be celebrated in public. Obviously, Private celebration is a different issue.

I don’t know if this does any good - Goodnight, and peace be with you.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Marian_Carroll]

Reminder: This thread topic deals with prospects for a “reform of the reform” with regard to the TLM – not with the SSPX, or schism. Those wishing to discuss other subjects should feel free to do so or search for former threads which may address their questions/concerns.

 

[Ave_Maria_1]

Ave Maria!

I think that reconciliation between Rome and the SSPX is coming for one thing. Now the SSPX has splinters too and not all will return but to have an ‘Apostolic Administration’ or whatever they might call it to allow for a quasi-independent true Latin Rite may be on the way. It will not have to answer to the local ordinary any more than the Maronite or other Rites do. And I will welcome that day!

Latin Masses are not allowed in my liberal leaning, dissenting diocese. We like ‘peace and justice’ and speakers who dissent against the teachings of the Holy Church–one is coming to my parish next month ( a Paulist priest who has published articles in favor of women’s ordination among other thngs). I am not able to attend a Latin Mass but I would love the opportunity to do so.

I would also love the opportunity to attend a very reverent Novus Ordo. I am used to t he abuses a nd have no option but to tolerate them. Writing to the bishop is an exercise in futility.
I did change to the one other parish in town as the jokes at Mass and the priests not showing up during the week are only two of the things that bothered me. I would get so upset at Mass that I could hardly go to communion. And that happened often.
I do not want to hear about father’s vacation or his Elvis impersonation at Mass. Sometimes I would like to hear about Jesus. It is so very rare to even hear that name!

I LONG for holy reverent Masses and good teaching homilies.

See www.unavoce.org and you will see that the Latin Mass movement is growing all over. I was in Rome last year and herd Latin and LOVED it. We can go anywhere in our universal church and with Latin in the Mass, we can enter into t he prayers.

It is coming back! I wish that much of what has been taken from us will return–our deovtions, our Mass, the Truths of the faith…

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Ave Maria:

I can’t really comment on a reconciliation between Rome and the SSPX, although what you’re describing is either a “Prefucture” or a “Sui Iuris” Church. Either one will remove the SSPX from the Authority of the local Authority. Aside from that, I don’t know anything as I have been busy trying to assist in reconciling another group to Rome…
Ave Maria!:

Ave Maria!

I think that reconciliation between Rome and the SSPX is coming for one thing. Now the SSPX has splinters too and not all will return but to have an ‘Apostolic Administration’ or whatever they might call it to allow for a quasi-independent true Latin Rite may be on the way. It will not have to answer to the local ordinary any more than the Maronite or other Rites do. And I will welcome that day!

…Naturally, any union between any any group of Christians has my prayers as it would brings us into conformity with our Lord’s expressed desires on the issue.

I’m sorry to hear that you Archbishop Ordinary doesn’t allow the TLM as requested by Pope John Paul II in the Indults. Have you checked Father Martin’s List of Traditional Latin Masses?
starharbor.com/fr_martin/masslist.html
Or the Byzantine Catholic Eparchy of Van Nuys?
eparchy-of-van-nuys.org/Dir-Parishes.htm#California
or the Melkite Catholic Eparchy of Newton?
melkite.org/parishinfo.html
Or theSt. Nicholas Eparchy for Ukranian Catholics
stnicholaseparchy.org/parishdirectory/california.htm
Or the Eparchy of St. George for the Romanian Catholics
romaniancatholic.org/directory.php?parishes
Or the Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon
usamaronite.org/eparchy/history.html

These Eparchies are Sui Iuris Churches in Union with the Holy see who aren’t under the local Ordinaries - They will worship our Lord reverently and preach the Faith of the Church.

Have you considered posting the details that you posted here on Catholic Answers and elsewhere (but adding the Parish and the Diocese) and writing the Holy See with those same details?..
Ave Maria!:

Latin Masses are not allowed in my liberal leaning, dissenting diocese. We like ‘peace and justice’ and speakers who dissent against the teachings of the Holy Church–one is coming to my parish next month (a Paulist priest who has published articles in favor of women’s ordination among other thngs). I am not able to attend a Latin Mass but I would love the opportunity to do so.

I would also love the opportunity to attend a very reverent Novus Ordo. I am used to the abuses and have no option but to tolerate them. Writing to the Bishop is an exercise in futility. I did change to the one other parish in town as the jokes at Mass and the priests not showing up during the week are only two of the things that bothered me. I would get so upset at Mass that I could hardly go to communion. And that happened often. I do not want to hear about father’s vacation or his Elvis impersonation at Mass. Sometimes I would like to hear about Jesus. It is so very rare to even hear that name!

I LONG for holy reverent Masses and good teaching homilies.

See www.unavoce.org and you will see that the Latin Mass movement is growing all over. I was in Rome last year and herd Latin and LOVED it. We can go anywhere in our universal church and with Latin in the Mass, we can enter into t he prayers.

It is coming back! I wish that much of what has been taken from us will return–our deovtions, our Mass, the Truths of the faith…

I’ve found that nothing makes these people conform like the glare of publicity. I had my own situation I can discuss with you privately (send me a PM and I’ll tell you how to get started)

I live a LIBERAL Archdiocese, which has most of the same problems, as well as others that you are describing. The List of Eparchies comes from my own research, since i know that most of the parishes here don’t preach the Faith.

The rest of this will have to be off-board. PM me and let me know which diocese you’re in.

In Christ, Michael

 

[palmas85]

Kielbasi:

Approxiamately 200 out of estimated 20,000 American parishes have the traditional Latin mass.

That’s 1%.

Is this figure from the Church itself? If not where does it come from?