No Images? What about the Sistine Chapel?

[NonDenom]

Yeah… It’s called Iconoclasm

It is clear that the prohibition is not iconoclastic as some preach, but based upon the intent of the one making and using the image. Since NO CATHOLIC EVER kneels down before any image to worship it we are not idolaters at all. We are not stupid enough to confuse a mass of rock, plaster, metal, or any other created thing with the almighty and ever living God of the Universe.

remnantofgod.org/pix/dagon_jpg_view.htm

UH OK!

 

[Jaime]

I agree 100% with all you said. Really, every talent we have is from God and I think should bear witness to (and certainly not detract from) his glory. This has been a great conversation; I hope it has helped you as much as it has helped me

LT

Indeed it has helped me immensly. I certainly feel that it is my duty to spread God’s glory in all that I do, including artistically. Thank you for all the help and insight you have provided me!

 

[mozart-250]

Hello. I know the catholic stance for images(At least I think I do, I am catholic). I am currently discussing Mary with a protestant and that person brought up the whole " God said no Images" thing. I told that person that this was a commandment for the Jews, who had never seen God. I went on to tell this person that we already have an image of God, Jesus. But then I wondered about the Sistine Chapel, where it depicts(I’m assuming) God the father, Giving life to Adam. I want to know why this is acceptable.

Actually this is an excellent question.

As an artist type, the issue here to me is an inconsistency in what is “allowed art” in church.

Of course the art of sacred music is acceptible and encouraged.

The visual art of sacred painting…meh…not so much. But I’ve never heard of painting as evil.

The art of sacred dancing similar. Only evil in a few outlier environments.

(Actually I’ve heard of ministries that are seeking to restore the sacred visual arts and sacred dancing to church much like sacred music. Separate tangent issue I suppose)

But with the art of sacred sculpture all of a sudden we have a great evil and graven images?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

God did not forbid images, of Him or anything else.

HE most certainly DID, open your bible!

In fact, God commanded all sorts of carved images in the Temple.
Iconoclasm is a heresy.

HERE is fair warning…Read Exo 20:5 it reflects the only commandment that reflects God’s character and JUDGEMENT

The only thing God forbade was the *worship of false gods *. In that day and age, such gods were represented in images that were worshiped.

God commanding HIS people to make something for HIM to dwell amongst HIS people is not HIMSELF breaking HIS commandment of no GRAVEN images.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

God did not forbid images, of Him or anything else. In fact, God commanded all sorts of carved images in the Temple.

What did God have done with these? It’s all pretty clear here!
2Ki 18:3
And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.

2Ki 18:4 ¶ He removed the high places, and** brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: **and he called it Nehushtan.

2Ki 18:5 He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor [any] that were before him.

2Ki 18:6 For he clave to the LORD, [and] departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.

 

[VociMike]

Church Militant;2157510:

Yeah… It’s called Iconoclasm

It is clear that the prohibition is not iconoclastic as some preach, but based upon the intent of the one making and using the image. Since NO CATHOLIC EVER kneels down before any image to worship it we are not idolaters at all. We are not stupid enough to confuse a mass of rock, plaster, metal, or any other created thing with the almighty and ever living God of the Universe.

remnantofgod.org/pix/dagon_jpg_view.htm

UH OK!
Oh great, we’re going to start the “kneeling = idolatry” thread again. Well then, here are some non-Catholic Christian idolators worshipping the bible and the Ten Commandments:

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/kneel_monument_350.jpg

And here are some more worshipping vases of flowers:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

We can play this silly game all day long if you choose…

 

[YADA]

NonDenom,

What was the point of posting the link to so many pictures?

…And why do most of the pictures sow catholics at worship or catholic functions but the link also has pictures that depict non catholic persons and objects?

Was it because this link also includes anti-catholic bigotry depictions hidden in the mix? What is your point?

Are you an anti-catholic bigot trying to get your “hate” for the Church linked via this subtle manner?

I am [one poster here on this site] offended with your post and link that includes denigrating words as found in your post

It is clear that the prohibition is not iconoclastic as some preach, but based upon the intent of the one making and using the image. Since NO CATHOLIC EVER kneels down before any image to worship it we are not idolaters at all. We are not stupid enough to confuse a mass of rock, plaster, metal, or any other created thing with the almighty and ever living God of the Universe.

UH OK!

With links to cartoons calling the church the “great whore of babylon”

Please refrain from this hate speech.

 

[YADA]

I am guessing NonDenom’s post was a hit and run as they have not come back to answer the questions in my post regarding the purpose of the link with the anti-catholic comics and content.

They have also not responded to the posted pics by VociMike…great post by the way VociMike

Good bye NonDenom [if you are still lurking in the forums]…I won’t be missing your hateful posts…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hello. I know the catholic stance for images(At least I think I do, I am catholic). I am currently discussing Mary with a protestant and that person brought up the whole " God said no Images" thing. I told that person that this was a commandment for the Jews, who had never seen God. I went on to tell this person that we already have an image of God, Jesus.

That is an excellent reply - develop it ​

But then I wondered about the Sistine Chapel, where it depicts(I’m assuming) God the father, Giving life to Adam. I want to know why this is acceptable.

Some well-known images -​

• Mount Rushmore
• Dollar bills
• Coinage
• statues in public places
• “Uncle Sam”
• the “Stars and Stripes”
• photographs
• advertising
• the Lincoln Memorial

• these might not be in church; that does not mean that they are not representations of things. If they are representations of anything - then they are images.

The Bible is full of images - as when God is called a warrior, a rock, fortress, or is described in Daniel 7 or Ezekiel 1 & 10

Catholics can be sure that the Saints are in Heaven - can non-Catholics be equally certain that those whose representations surround them on coinage, in portraits, & in statues, are in Heaven ? If those people are not - they are non-existent (like “Uncle Sam”) or damned: should one honour someone in Hell with a statue ? I don’t think so.

If those who claim that images are forbidden to Christians were consistent, daily life would be very different. As they are not consistent, it is not easy to take their claim seriously.

(FWIW, I think the Sistine Chapel ceiling is ugly)

 

[juliamajor]

Ok lets do what the Amish do. They have no photographs nor do they allow photography- They are following the letter of the “Law”- Maybe THEY got it Right. Ok everybody get out of your chair grab granny’s Photo and burn it- all those school photos out! that wedding album- it’s Satan’s doing -those nasty images all have to go!! While we’re at it unplug that computer and throw it out the window!! All those images- all those sins against the commandment!!! Let’s face it either you should obeythe commandment literally or else youlook at it in the context of time place culture. The ancient pagans believed that their god actually resided in the idol- it wasn’t a mere representation it was the god itself. The egyptians would keep the idol in a Holy Of holies cut off from the populace. The idol only went out on special occasions- otherwise it was kept inside attended by priests who fed it cleaned it put make up on it attending to it like it was alive.The very life force of the idol was encased in that rock/metal /wooden form. People who use icons don’t worship them-they are used to focus your attention on the divine -from the tangible to to the intangible.

 

[MariaAntonietta]

The picture of God in the Sistine Chapel has detailed figures of others that have a huge part in the creation of man. God created Adam and then Eve as the painting in the Sistine Chapel shows. To show the faces of these people is a blessing nothing less. Jesus will be back once again to continue the good news.

 

[Turtullian]

What did God have done with these? It’s all pretty clear here!
2Ki 18:3
And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.

2Ki 18:4 ¶ He removed the high places, and** brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: **and he called it Nehushtan.

2Ki 18:5 He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor [any] that were before him.

2Ki 18:6 For he clave to the LORD, [and] departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.

That’s cute however not biblical. You take the verses above out of context for in the previous chapter it is talking about idolatry and the people worshipping such statues and as punishment having thier statues taken away.