'No institutional ministry to convert Jews'

[Don_Ruggero]

1. Keep in mind that just because documents are allowed somewhere on the Vatican website, and there is a commission involved that has a connection to the Vatican, that does not mean “the Vatican” is issuing this document in an authoritative way. There have been many such documents, by ecumenical and other groups, these are really discussion starters, not determinations by the Church; sort of putting something up on a bulletin board. The media tends to equate everything posted on a Rome bulletin board as an encyclical. Instead of calling it a “Vatican document”, better to call it a document submitted to the Vatican.
2. I am not aware of any “institutional conversion” program since WWII, for instance. Certainly the position of the Church was, and still is, that for the individual, Christianity
   is a fuller explanation of the truth than Judaism, and Catholicism is the fullest explanation of the truth within Christianity. Yes, there were individual conversions from Judaism to Christianity in 1960, and still are today. No, there weren’t brigades going out to target synagogues or Jewish neighborhoods in 1960, or today either.

Popes since Vatican II who supported Nostra Aetate also supported - in fact greatly expanded - evangelism not just by priests and nuns, but by all Catholics. In a way the Church is more pro-conversion now than before Vatican II; not targeting Jews as such.

Since the Church as a whole is called to be more evangelistic, including lay Catholics, after Vatican II - read Pope Paul and JPII - you can’t say there is a downplaying of efforts at conversion. Evangelism gets more emphasis, not less, than 50 years ago. But there also is also more emphasis on respect for gifts and wisdom of different faiths, especially that of Jewish individuals.

I wonder if “institutional conversion” would include groups like “Jews for Jesus” or Christian evangelical churches that present as if they were synagogues, near college campuses.

This document was issued over the signature of His Eminence, Kurt Cardinal Koch, who was brought to Rome by Pope Benedict XVI because of his expertise in this area… This is not “some commission”. Nostra aetate and its aftermath has transformed Jewish Catholic relations

 

[commenter]

This document was issued over the signature of His Eminence, Kurt Cardinal Koch, who was brought to Rome by Pope Benedict XVI because of his expertise in this area… This is not “some commission”.

“This document” is a* recommendation* that may inform future policy. It’s a communication to the Vatican. Some recommendations made by commissions later find their way into actual policies. Some don’t. No one minimizes the expertise of Cardinal Koch. But I don’t think he would agree with the media’s blurring anything mentioned at or in or to the Vatican as an encyclical, and I don’t think he would disagree with those who clarify what the document is, and what it isn’t.

 

[Peter_J]

No one minimizes the expertise of Cardinal Koch.

Not to be a backseat driver but you (presumably) don’t. I’m certain there are many who do, especially on CAF.

 

[TMC]

I’m am surprised that so many are surprised by this document. The document lays out the Church’s position on Judaism in a more direct and succinct way than has been done in a single document in the past. But the principles set forth in the document are not really new. The Church has not had an institutional mission to convert Jews for many decades. The Church has also taught for many decades that Jews may be saved without confessing Christ in this life. I am not sure why Catholics are surprised by those points, which have been part of Catholic teaching at least since Vatican II. Saint John Paul II spoke on these same issues often.

BTW, there is also a thread discussing this topic on Catholic News.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m am surprised that so many are surprised by this document. The document lays out the Church’s position on Judaism in a more direct and succinct way than has been done in a single document in the past. But the principles set forth in the document are not really new. The Church has not had an institutional mission to convert Jews for many decades. The Church has also taught for many decades that Jews may be saved without confessing Christ in this life. I am not sure why Catholics are surprised by those points, which have been part of Catholic teaching at least since Vatican II. Saint John Paul II spoke on these same issues often.

BTW, there is also a thread discussing this topic on Catholic News.

I’m surprised you’re surprised.

Heh.

Seriously, over the last several years I’ve familiarized myself with CAF’s Catholic posters – maybe not every one individually, but at least the general pattern of what gets posted here – and the posts on this thread are really par for the course.

The sad thing to me is that many non-Catholics I’ve encountered just automatically assume that the CA forums are representative of Catholics in general.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

This document was issued over the signature of His Eminence, Kurt Cardinal Koch, who was brought to Rome by Pope Benedict XVI because of his expertise in this area… This is not “some commission”. Nostra aetate and its aftermath has transformed Jewish Catholic relations

I have followed (and been a part of) Jewish Christian relations for decades and I agree with you absolutely that N.A. has transformed the Church’s relationship with the Jewish community.

My curiosity is in people’s responses here on this thread and on others that are floating around this site. People are discounting the importance of this document, as far as I can discern, because they disagree with the message. What do you think, Don Ruggero? The two main points of the document are that Jews have their own covenant with God and do not need salvation through Christ; they are already participating in a salvific relationship (my words); and secondly, the Catholic Church, therefore, will not proselytize Jews.

That is very difficult for some people on this site to hear.

For me, it is cause for rejoicing.

Also a cause for rejoicing (with open mouth, I must confess) is the statement that just came out from a group of Orthodox rabbis (including Yitz Greenberg and David Rosen) that states that “(W)e acknowledge that Christianity is neither an accident nor an error, but the willed divine outcome and gift to the nations…

In separating Judaism and Christianity, God willed a separation between partners with significant theological differences, not a separation between enemies.

We understand that there is room in traditional Judaism to see Christianity as part of God’s covenantal plan for humanity, as a development out of Judaism that was willed by God.’

All good. Very, very good for all of us.

 

[Peter_J]

I have followed (and been a part of) Jewish Christian relations for decades and I agree with you absolutely that N.A. has transformed the Church’s relationship with the Jewish community.

My curiosity is in people’s responses here on this thread and on others that are floating around this site. People are discounting the importance of this document, as far as I can discern, because they disagree with the message. What do you think, Don Ruggero? The two main points of the document are that Jews have their own covenant with God and do not need salvation through Christ; they are already participating in a salvific relationship (my words); **and secondly, the Catholic Church, therefore, will not proselytize Jews.

That is very difficult for some people on this site to hear.**

My reading of CAF suggests that it is difficult for some people on this site to hear that there’s anyone – be it the Orthodox, the Anglicans, the Lutherans, etc etc – whom we will not proselytize.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

1. Keep in mind that just because documents are allowed somewhere on the Vatican website, and there is a commission involved that has a connection to the Vatican, that does not mean “the Vatican” is issuing this document in an authoritative way. There have been many such documents, by ecumenical and other groups, these are really discussion starters, not determinations by the Church; sort of putting something up on a bulletin board. The media tends to equate everything posted on a Rome bulletin board as an encyclical. Instead of calling it a “Vatican document”, better to call it a document submitted to the Vatican.

Let us be crystal clear, because what has been said is not correct.

1. The Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews assuredly IS an entity of the Holy See and a person who would say otherwise is betraying a lack of knowledge of the dicasteries of the Holy See, their function, and their structure.
2. This document was presented to the assembled press by the Holy See. This was done by His Eminence the Cardinal.
3. The reason the document is over the signature of Kurt Cardinal Koch and Bishop Brian Farrell, using their respective titles of President and Vice President, is because this commission operates UNDER the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and the respective President and Vice President of the Pontifical Council are, ipso facto, the President and Vice President of the commission. This is explained by the Holy See in this document:
   vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19740101_commission-jews_en.html
4. THE GIFTS AND THE CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE is not a document presented to the Holy See. It is a document of the Holy See and it commemorates the 50th anniversary of the document of Vatican II, Nostra Aetate.
5. I do not know what American journalists are saying about this document. Frankly, what Americans in their media are saying is of no significance but it is regrettable if they are reporting facts erroneously. However, below is copied what Vatican Radio published and their reporting is correct and I would recommend Vatican Radio and L’Osservatore Romano as reliable sources to which Catholics in the United States should go for reporting about the Holy See that is accurate and knowledgeable.

*(Vatican Radio) The Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with Jews has released a new document exploring the unresolved theological questions at the heart of Christian-Jewish dialogue.

The new document, entitled ‘The Gifts and Calling of God are irrevocable’, marks the 50th anniversary of the ground-breaking declaration ‘Nostra Aetate’. It was presented at a press conference in the Vatican on Thursday, by Cardinal Kurt Koch, Fr Norbert Hofmann of the Vatican Commission, together with two Jewish representatives, Rabbi David Rosen, International Director of Interreligious Affairs for the American Jewish Committee, and Dr Ed Kessler, founding director of the Cambridge Woolf Institute.*
news.va/en/news/vatican-issues-new-document-on-christian-jewish-di

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I have followed (and been a part of) Jewish Christian relations for decades and I agree with you absolutely that N.A. has transformed the Church’s relationship with the Jewish community.

Then we share something very special in common, ComplineSanFran. I have been part of this issue for decades, too. It would be hard for me to put into words the profound impact that His Eminence, Cardinal Bea, had upon me. In my own small ways, I have wished to carry forward his incredible legacy. He remains a tremendous inspiration and, I hope, will continue to inspire new generations in the 21st century.

Without thinking it would be so, Nostra Aetate has had quite the impact on me, my priesthood and, because of circumstances that I have to see as the kindness of Providence, things that I have had the privilege to do and to live. I therefore share your enthusiasm about Nostra Aetate and how it has transformed Jewish Catholic relations. I will go to eternity praising God for the incredible legacy of the Second Vatican Council, the council fathers who were remarkable and prophetic men, and the periti who helped them. I could not imagine an era I would more have wanted to live in than these past decades.

 

[commenter]

My reading of CAF suggests that it is difficult for some people on this site to hear that there’s anyone – be it the Orthodox, the Anglicans, the Lutherans, etc etc – whom we will not proselytize.

My reading of CAF suggests it is difficult for some people on this site to hear there’s anyone whom we should evangelize. The reality is that since VII the popes have increased the emphasis on evangelism, specifically including the laity evangelizing.

Proselytizing shouldn’t be done by anyone, to anyone. It means pressuring people to convert, attacking other religious beliefs, ignoring the measure of truth other faiths have. People try to undermine evangelism by equating it with something different, proselytizing.

It is true Christians have sometimes been anti-Semitic, and also racist; that history does not mean we should now be silent when Jews inquire about Christianity, any more than we would cease attempting to evangelize African Americans.

The Catholic Faith is reasonable. Historically, if the Faith is publicly presented to 1000 individuals, some of them will inquire further, and some of the inquirers will become Catholic, or return to the Faith. We should not, and we do not, set up a loudspeaker next to the synagogue, but the reality is Jews are among the general public that hears publicly proclaimed Catholic logic, and some Jews historically have responded to the general message of Catholic doctrine, and become Catholic.

Some Jews are active or inactive members of a synagogue; other Jews have no connection to any synagogue, but some sense of religious affiliation. Other Jews, likely the majority in most countries, say they have no particular Jewish religious belief at all. It’s wrong to say that the 3 groups are identical, in terms of evangelism. It would be anti-Semitic to say the Church should stop putting general evangelistic messages out into the general public, because of the risk a few responders will be Jewish. Of course, many people want the Church to do no evangelism, to hide our lamp under a bushel basket, but talk only to visitors who happen to knock at the rectory.

Edith Stein, Rhonda Chervin, and many others have offered a witness into their own conversion. Consult their writings.