No Kneelers, No Kneeling,

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If you were to kneel on the floor, you can’t see over the pew very easily, which is the advantage of having a kneeler. Now, when I was Europe, they often had a different type of kneeler that was diagonal and forced your bottom to rest on the seat. It stayed in place, you didn’t put it up and down.
 
i encountered this too at the catholic church at the beach and i asked the priest, he said that it started in their church b/c during the summer months there are more people and the church has to open the side wings of the auditorium attached to the church which is just chairs, they decided the whole congreation should be doing the same thing so they eliminated kneeling…but…he also informed me that basically only in america do we kneel…if we were to go to europe, you stand during mass…
 
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jeanine:
he also informed me that basically only in america do we kneel…if we were to go to europe, you stand during mass…
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This is a common fallacy (or at least a misunderstanding) referred to by many to discourage us from kneeling at the appropriate times.

It is true that in the United States there is a special provision by which we kneel from the Sanctus to the Amen (including the Consecration) and in most cases after the Agnus Dei. However, it is the universal norm of the Church to kneel during the Consecration, and at the very least to genuflect at this time. In other words, in most countries the faithful remain standing after the Sanctus but kneel for the Consecration.

Most misleaders use the old cathedrals as examples of European churches without kneelers…but they fail to point out that in most cases kneeling still occurs at the appropriate times (i.e. during the Consecration).
 
What’s the big deal? If you go to a parish w/o kneelers, keep one of those freebie cushions you get at ball games in your trunk.

Not only are they good for padding a solid wooden pew, they are also great for kneeling on.

Get a pad and quit worrying because you’re prepared…
 
Why do you need kneelers? If they have been removed from your church or if it was built without them, as our was, just kneel on the hard floor and offer it up to God! 🙂
 
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msproule:
I was told that Cardinal Maida had since began a policy stating that any new renovations would require kneelers to be installed or kept, but that in the meantime the lack of kneelers fit into the category of “for some other good reason (to not kneel)” that is stated in the GIRM. I respectfully disagree with him on this point.
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Many others, including our own Fr. Serpa, disagree with His Eminence.
 
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Chalice:
So?
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So…we are allowed to have a different opinion than the Bishop.

It is within the competency of the Bishop to decide what is “good reason”, according to the GIRM. Therefore, I do not cast disapproving glances at those who use his allowance to stand. However, as far as I know he has never mandated standing.

Meanwhile, I believe that a lack of kneelers should not prevent most healthy people from kneeling.
 
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paramedicgirl:
Why do you need kneelers? If they have been removed from your church or if it was built without them, as our was, just kneel on the hard floor and offer it up to God! 🙂
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I like your style!
While my daughter is doing Kindergarten and disrupting our entire homeschool day, I’m giving it up for the Poor Souls!

Here’s a story. I went to Stations. Our church is packed. We have kneelers but I couldn’t get a seat. My little ones have bony knees.
I put their coats on the floor for them to kneel on. No problem. Me? I was on the cracks of the ceramic floor.
And understand, we don’t just genuflect, we kneel though all the stations. I hope many souls made it to heaven that day!!!
 
spiritblow So if they remove the banks from the church, you will not sit down anymore? 😉 I have studied liturgy for few years and i must say that i have never read a book of liturgy, which will say that it’s obligatory to insert kneelers in church, or that they are needed in church;) What’s more there was some topic about the liturgical positions - i must say that the majority of people who are participating in Holy Mass do not know how to kneel… they take various positions which in fact are rather a kind of sitting than of kneeling…
 
bartolomeo said:
spiritblow So if they remove the banks from the church, you will not sit down anymore? I have studied liturgy for few years and i must say that i have never read a book of liturgy, which will say that it’s obligatory to insert kneelers in church, or that they are needed in church What’s more there was some topic about the liturgical positions - i must say that the majority of people who are participating in Holy Mass do not know how to kneel… they take various positions which in fact are rather a kind of sitting than of kneeling…
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My parish is about 16 years old; at first we were meeting in a renovated factory building and used old pews from another church; the kneelers were “accidentally” left behind. Then we built our temporary permanent church. We have these moveable chairs (that really are rarely moved except when they’re moved in the way of Communion traffic flow!) and no kneelers. A bunch of us have started to kneel anyway, since the rubric is quite specific that the Church Universal kneels from the invocation of the Holy Spirit to the Great Amen, and the USCCB (!) petitioned Rome for permission to kneel from the end of the Lamb of God to the Great Amen since that was standard American custom.

From the Catholic Answers website: catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0312fea1.asp

(I’m in the awkward position of feeling I have to stand when I’m reader; Father gets into a tizzy about people doing things other than the way he wants them done (!!!))

Frankly, I’d be okay with people standing, if they didn’t look quite so much like they were waiting for a bus 😛 !

I hear that when we build our permanent permanent church (which we broke ground for this spring; maybe I’ll see it in the next five years:whacky: ), Rockford has laid down the law: we must have kneelers.

HOORAY!! :bounce:

“Little Rosie”
 
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spiritblows:
I’ve visited a lot of churches and this is the first I’ve encountered it, so it’s not widespread. I hadn’t heard of it before though. I must be sheltered. I have been to lots of churches that remain standing when we usually kneel before going to communion, but most of them kneel after communion although some remain standing. But, I’ve never been to one where people don’t kneel during the consecration. But, as Gregory says, I guess kneeling isn’t what the original Church did, something I also didn’t know.

Well, I like to kneel, plus we live in such a proud society that I think we all need more humility.
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Spiritblows,

Please know that I do not object to kneelers in Roman Catholic Churches. There is a need for humility and if that helps then kneelers should be in every Latin Catholic Church. For a similar reason they do not belong in Eastern Catholic Churches. It’s fascinating how pride and rebellion work. Whatever counteracts that tendency ought to be praised.

Dan L
 
I’m pleased to say that I attended Mass at one of my old parishes this Sunday. This church has no kneelers either, therefore some kneel and most don’t. My husband noticed that there were once kneelers there because the screw holes were still evident.

This church is building a new church so I told my husband to ask the Priest after mass, if they intend to put kneelers in the new church.

Apparently the priest said they were going to install kneelers for the FEW that will kneel. (I wasn’t there when my husband spoke to the priest). I’m wondering, since some of us prefer to kneel, perhaps the priest will guide the congregation to the new habit of kneeling until it becomes natural for them again.

My modern church that I usually attend also has well used kneelers! I’m very grateful for that. Sometimes I wish I could take a bit of this Mass at one parish, and a bit of that Mass at another parish and put it all together so that we could have “my” definition of a “perfect” Mass.
 
Well, I like to kneel, plus we live in such a proud society that I think we all need more humility.
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I can certainly agree with that, but kneeling when everyone else in the congregation is assuming another posture, makes it seem as if you’re trying to make yourself seem more Catholic than them.

It seems to me prideful and setting yourself apart from your fellow Catholics in attendance.
 
On the contrary!

I answer that…

The person is actually abiding by the truth by doing what is right and just. If we were to see God, would we bow, or kneel? Most likely we would fall to our knees.

If he or she is doing it for the right reasons, then there is no problem.
 
The person is actually abiding by the truth by doing what is right and just. If we were to see God, would we bow, or kneel? Most likely we would fall to our knees.
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Different folks have different opinions on that, the Greeks, for example, mostly stand of course, and rarely kneel, I don’t think we can criticize on this.
If he or she is doing it for the right reasons, then there is no problem.
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**Absolutely **correct. But each individual has to ask for themselves if they are doing it for the right reasons, or merely to show up the other Catholics with an outward expression of holiness, or trying to shame the other participants by making them seem “less Catholic”.

You should examine your own conscience, and your own reasons, before you act.
 
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Kielbasi:
Different folks have different opinions on that, the Greeks, for example, mostly stand of course, and rarely kneel, I don’t think we can criticize on this.
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On the contrary!

I answer that…

Indeed alot of Orthodox churches don’t have pews (wonderful!) and some of the reason is so you can do reverent bows and prostrations, which I think very highly of.

http://www.nashvilledominican.org/News/Community_News/Photos/Prostration.jpg

Couldn’t find any Orthodox.
 
The church I attend doesn’t have kneelers or carpeting under the pews. Most of the congregation at the Sunday mass doesn’t kneel, although the ratio is reversed for the daily masses.

It seems the bishop in this diocese outlawed (??) kneelers at the time when the church was built. The pews are also curved which would make putting in new ones difficult and very expensive.
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Kielbasi:
I can certainly agree with that, but kneeling when everyone else in the congregation is assuming another posture, makes it seem as if you’re trying to make yourself seem more Catholic than them.

It seems to me prideful and setting yourself apart from your fellow Catholics in attendance.
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I grew up in a diocese where everyone kneeled. I don’t think it has anything to do with being more Catholic or more holy, but in how you were raised. I can’t stand without becoming very distracted and feeling uneasy.

When I first got to an all standing church I tried to stand, but it felt as if someone was pushing on the backs of my knees causing me to sink. I finally gave up and kneeled. It has nothing to do with pride and everything to do with the way I was taught to pray.
 
I recently went to Poland where very few of the churches had kneelers, and if they did, they were made out of wood with no padding. Nevertheless, people knelt. At communion, instead of waiting for space at the rail to open up, people knelt down on the tile. I even saw an elderly woman kneeling on the stone pavement outside of a church when it was locked. At first, I was a little puzzled, but the pain on your knees made kneeling both a sign of reverance and penance at the same time. It was reassuring to see that in some parts of the world, reverance is still a part of people’s spiritual lives.

On a sadder note, a priest at a Benedictine monastery I went to recently made an announcement to the congregation, that even though there are kneelers in the pew, it was not the parish’s “custom” to kneel at any part of the mass.

Also, this might be a good place to pose this question. What do you do in a situation where you are obligated to receive communion standing, but still feel the need to show reverence to the Blessed Sacrament? Is it ok to genuflect in line?
 
The fact that kneeling is even debated in anyway in regards to the mass is absurd. Rather amazing as well… the church is losing so much of it’s Catholicity.
 
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