No More Confession

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Angeluzza

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For years now, I have had OCD, which also makes me very scrupulous when it comes to confession and communion. My OCD is pretty much limited to my thoughts, which means I get a lot of unwanted thoughts. I am pretty rational otherwise, and not nuts. I can differentiate clearly between OCD and reality.

Over the years, I have had a very hard time of it with confession. I would get so nervous going in, because I was afraid to tell these things to someone. (Part of it is that sometimes the thoughts are so strong it is like a battle, and I am never sure if I do give in to some of them however briefly.) Priests have not been very nice in the past in different situations (the minute I mention I have OCD it is like they think I am a lunatic) which lead to me going to confession, and thus communion, less and less, until I stopped.

This has been very hard on me as I want to be able to go, but the priests make me feel worse about myself than if I do not go. It is very painful. So after about a year and a half since the last time I went to confession, I could not take it any more, and went to see a priest.

I thought if I talked to him first he could understand my situation, and maybe help me through this. So I set up an appointment. Now, this is a REALLY sensitive topic to me, and I always cry when I go to confession anyways just about, so when we met I started to cry right away. Not freakish sobs, just regular “this hurts” sort of cry. But I thought this was ok - I mean, he is a priest. Its ok to show your weaknesses around them??

Well, I guess not. I explained to him that I have OCD, and that I really would like some direction to be able to get my spiritual life back on track so that I can go to confession, and perhaps get some guidance in some other areas of my life. I was pretty emotional (tears) but not huge sobs or anything crazy.

The priest listened and then said that the only way he would help me was if I went on medication. I was sort of taken back by this. He said to forget going to confession until all of this was dealt with, but that first, in order for it to be dealt with, he wanted me on medication and only then would he help me.

Then, he proceeded to ask me if I had ever been institutionalized. At this point I was really shocked. I said no, at which he said, as if he was thinking aloud, “well, you never know. Sometimes crazy people say some really strange things,” as if he thought in the past I had said strange things or something. (I never said I had, nor did I say anything strange in our meeting.)

Now I was really taken back even more. I was not sure what I had said or done (besides crying?) that would make someone think this and refuse to help me (I did not know only crazy people cry?) I was soooo offended and hurt that someone would think this about me.

He basically cut short the meeting (he had told me the day before we would have 45 minutes. I don’t think we made it to a full half hour.) He told me he would help me but only if I did these things, and that was it. It felt like a total rejection - like, I will only help you if you do what I say.

Well, I left feeling worse than before I went in, and this has not stopped troubling me for a long time now. It made me feel so terrible about myself, because I cannot understand why he would refuse me help especially when I NEED to go to confession and communion and get this resolved. I mean, if I was acting crazy, maybe I can see, but the only thing out of the ordinary I can think of was that I cried, but gosh, I did not know that made me insane.

Was he right? I just do not get it. It is like I am afraid to tell a priest I have OCD, because often when I do they just treat me like a complete freak and I get absolutely NOWHERE. I know medication is an option, and i have done it before, but it has never helped. And besides, medications have horrible side affects that I have experienced and I do not want to create another problem attempting to fix one.

I just don’t know what to do. It is like I will never be able to go to confession or communion again. I am tired of priests assuming they know everything about me because I have OCD, or scrupulous thoughts. I don’t know what to do. 😦
 
Angeluzza, I’m sorry you had this experience with your priest. I think what happened is two things:

Firstly, I think the priest doesn’t really understand what OCD is. Priests are not psychologists, at least most aren’t. They can be just as uninformed about such things as any other person. I once went to a priest about mental and spiritual abuse I experienced as a Pentecostal. The good man hadn’t a clue what I was talking about. I think you ought to gather together some good material on OCD to give to him so he can understand what you have and how it affects you. Many people think anyone with such a disorder is emotionally unstable. It’s not a fair assumption, I know, but since your priest apparently is one of these people he needs to have unbiased material that shows him this isn’t the case.

The other thing you can do is contact your diocese to ask for help with your dilemma. They are supposed to help people find help with such things that hinder their participation in the sacraments and thus their spiritual growth. This might be a last ditch thing to do and be prepared with some solid material about OCD just in case the person you meet with has the same misconceptions.

Also, I think you went with your heart on your sleeve which colored everything you heard and saw. I’m not at all saying you aren’t being truthful, only that we remember things according to how we feel at the time they happened. You might want to be more dispassionate the next time you approach your priest or another confessor. Especially if he already has misconceptions about your condition. You also need to tell him you are under a doctor’s care. I think that’s what your priest was trying to convey, in an awkward way. There’s no shame in that. I’m under a doctor’s care for several things–none of which are psychological conditions, as it happens, but still I am. I don’t take medications for all of them because of the same thing–side effects. So, don’t.let your priest put you off with such a demand. You have rights as a Catholic.

If you feel unsure approaching your priest or the diocese on your own, have someone you trust, who knows you well, go with you just to talk things over. Of course, you’ll have to do confession on your own, but for a simple meeting with a priest you don’t have to go alone.

You have my prayers and good wishes.
 
I suffer from the same condition, and believe me I know how rough it can be. Is there any way you can speak to a different priest, preferably one that you know that you are comfortable with or you know has experience in this area? You’re right, you’re not nuts. Some people may think you are, but they don’t fully understand your condition. I know what its like to have to deal with this, and its horrible. Please don’t get discouraged, even though I know it can get easy to do so. Some people think people with OCD are crazy, others don’t understand why they can’t just “get over it,” especially when it comes to scrupulosity. I hope you find a priest who can help you. O, and I don’t know if you know about this already, but try googling Scrupulous Anonymous and reading the newsletters. They really are very helpful. They answer a lot of questions, and are very well written. I often feel better after reading them, and even a little less scrupulous. Try reading some of their information about Confession, its really good.
 
Dear Angeluzza,

I agree that you should contact the diocese office and discuss your situation. I would hope you find someone there with more compassion and understanding of OCD. Please remember that God always knows your heart and the unfortunate situation you are in. We are all tested and I encourage you not to stop going to confession. I’ll say some prayers for you tonight. God bless you.
 
Angeluzza said:
I know medication is an option, and i have done it before, but it has never helped. And besides, medications have horrible side affects that I have experienced and I do not want to create another problem attempting to fix one.
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How long ago did you try medication? Did your doctor try more than one, or give up after the first one failed? It may very well be worth another try, as medication can be extremely effective in treating OCD.

I am very pro-medication, because I am close to someone who suffered very much from both OCD and scruples. When the OCD was properly diagnosed and treated with the right combination of medications, the person improved greatly and the scrupulosity disappeared.

The priest sounds like he was having a bad day, or is generally not very sympathetic, but he did make a very good recommendation.

This thread contains an answer by Fr. Serpa of the Ask An Apologist forum, in which he says:
Scrupulosity is an expression of OCD: obsessive compulsive disorder. It is basically a psychological, physiological problem that can have some spiritual ramifications. But it is not a spiritual problem in itself;
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(bold mine) This may be where your priest is coming from. He wants to see what spiritual problems are left for you after the medicine takes care of the non-spiritual problem. I’m sorry he wasn’t more gentle and polite, but maybe you should give some thought to what he said. OCD is a terrible burden, and it would be so good if you could get some relief.

Betsy
 
Please do not be ashamed of your OCD there are others of us out there. OCD is a gift from God, it gives you an attetnion to detail that others do not have, it also comes with burdons, but why even look at the negatives its not neccessary.

As far as confession, why even say you have OCD? I never do, what I have done out of my own free will is sin, and what I earnstly understand I had no control over not neccesarry, if your on the boarderline, why not just ask, " is situation X a sin?" priests quite often answer just perfectly and make me feel better. It is compelety uneccessary to say you have OCD, and if your wondering if I go to confession the answer is yes, and I go weekly as well.

Pray about your OCD, ask God to help you aim it in a positive direction, to make your life more efficiant, I prayer to the virgin mary for a while and she helped me big time with my problems.

On a last note, my father and I both have OCD and both say is what makes us what we are, yes difficult to deal with, but also a great gift. I am a Bio-medical engeneer, and my father is actually a brain surgeon beleive it or not, and aslo most of his partners have OCD, so it is overcomable, its just how do you use it to you advantage.
Code: 
               My brother or sister your are in my prayers
                                 -Steave
 
Since you know you have OCD, I gather you’ve been to a counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist about it. This would be a good thing to talk to a professional about, someone who can assess your situation personally and give you advice more tailored to your actual situation. If you can find a Catholic in your area who fits this bill, the chances are good that they know of a priest or priests who do have the background to help you. Otherwise, your diocese might know of someone. Although I wouldn’t bank on that, it is worth checking. They aren’t experts on every profession where being Catholic might be of special help, but they might be able to help you with this. It’s worth a try.

It is kind of like finding a personal trainer when you have a bad back or some other complicating physical problem, rather than just personal goals coupled to a normal need for exercise. The complications may mean a person needs a physical therapist, and not just the kind of personal trainers that a less complicated athlete might find totally satisfactory. This says nothing about which is the better athlete or the better professional, only that the “complicated” athlete needs extra expertise to reach his or her potential. Likewise, some professionals make their living on less complicated cases, some on the more complicated.

At any rate, the limited exchange that you related gives enough evidence that that particular confessor might well have been way out of his league. Look elsewhere for help. Don’t abandon the sacraments. Just find the specialised help you need to get them, just as you would for any other activity of normal life with which OCD might interfere.

If nothing else, a priest or even a Catholic counselor who understands what OCD is may be able to talk to your own pastor and explain the situation to him…kind of like a specialist would explain a patient’s case to a general practictioner.

God bless you, and good luck!
 
This is my own personal perspective from a healthcare POV, I could be wrong. See OCD is classified as a medical disorder ( mental non-psychotic).

I would assume that Priests have boundaries like Doctors and Lawyers that they are not allowed to cross by ethical standards (or perhaps even Law, maybe even Chruch law?). They are not qualified nor do they have any authority to give any kind of advice, as innocent as it may seem, especially when it comes to mental conditions.

See a priest cannot know whether your issues could simply be fixed with a proper treatment from a doctor who specializes in your condition.

If you admit you have a medical condition that you are fully know is interfering with your spiritual life, then yes the most logical answer would be find a doctor to help you treat the medical part and then the priest can help you with the spiritual part.

See, that priest probably doesn’t really have the education and background to properly deal with your spiritual needs in light of your medical condition. That would require a Priest who is also a licsensed Psychiatrist.

Hope I’m explaining myself well.

Anyway, that is just my perspective. I hope and pray that you find your answers, Personlly, I would take the Priests advice and think about finding a doctor to help you with your OCD if you really feel is it interfering in your life and relationships. I worked with someone who had it, and she went to go see someone about it, went on a treatment course, and felt like a new person. 🙂

And you just don’t know, if you are not on a treatment course now perhaps that’s all the fix you really need? If you deal with the root cause it may fix other parts of your life too?🙂

Good luck and god bless!
 
joannazenobia said:
This is my own personal perspective from a healthcare POV, I could be wrong. See OCD is classified as a medical disorder ( mental non-psychotic).

I would assume that Priests have boundaries like Doctors and Lawyers that they are not allowed to cross by ethical standards (or perhaps even Law, maybe even Chruch law?). They are not qualified nor do they have any authority to give any kind of advice, as innocent as it may seem, especially when it comes to mental conditions.

See a priest cannot know whether your issues could simply be fixed with a proper treatment from a doctor who specializes in your condition.

If you admit you have a medical condition that you are fully know is interfering with your spiritual life, then yes the most logical answer would be find a doctor to help you treat the medical part and then the priest can help you with the spiritual part.

See, that priest probably doesn’t really have the education and background to properly deal with your spiritual needs in light of your medical condition. That would require a Priest who is also a licsensed Psychiatrist.

Hope I’m explaining myself well.

Anyway, that is just my perspective. I hope and pray that you find your answers, Personlly, I would take the Priests advice and think about finding a doctor to help you with your OCD if you really feel is it interfering in your life and relationships. I worked with someone who had it, and she went to go see someone about it, went on a treatment course, and felt like a new person. 🙂

And you just don’t know, if you are not on a treatment course now perhaps that’s all the fix you really need? If you deal with the root cause it may fix other parts of your life too?🙂

Good luck and god bless!
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Not exactly. She hears not “I can’t help you, but we might be able to find you a priest that can”, but “unless you follow what I think you should do medically, I won’t help you spiritually.” I can’t speak to what the priest actually said, one way or the other, because that is second-hand. Still, this seems to be essentially what she hears. What she hears is extremely important.

OCD is not a condition that removes all moral culpability, or at least that is not an assumption that can be made automatically. One’s mental state can be mitigating, of course, depending on the person. She knows this. Also, even a physician cannot force a patient to accept a particular treatment. If she is avoiding a suggested treatment for morally sound reasons–for instance, because it hasn’t helped and has adverse side effects, rather than because she is too proud or finds it too inconvenient–then it is very possible that her avoidance of pharmaceutical treatment for her condition is not a spiritual issue. Like any other organic issue in our bodies, there is such a thing as a organic mental state that does not respond to pharmaceutical intervention. If the condition does not incapacitate the person’s ability to make moral choices, then the person still needs to address their moral culpability, even if it is a mitigated culpability, and not just his or her medical issues. In other words, a person with OCD still has sins to confess, even when her particular state means that he or she may have some trouble in fully sorting out the culpability on his or her own. And let us face it: few of us are so “healthy” and “together” that we don’t need some help in that area!!

This particular priest might have been in over his head, true. We don’t know, because we didn’t hear the conversation. The priest may not even know, but yes, would feel duty-bound not to allow a penitent to seek confession as a cure for an organic problem. Even a psychiatrist cannot tell a patient that she is morally bound to accept a certain treatment, though, and certainly not when he hasn’t reviewed her chart or examined her as a physician…and this priest, I think we can fairly guess, was not a physician.

She is not psychotic. She has a right to the sacraments. She is within her rights to want to find a priest who will hear her confession and is not in over his head when it comes to OCD. There are priests like that out there. When a priest who understands her medical condition tells her she is morally bound to accept a certain treatment or that her condition currently places her beyond culpability on the matters she’s confessing, that may be a different kettle of fish, yes, but that hasn’t happened. She can cross that bridge when she comes to it.

I would wager that there many more priests who are amenable to learning what their role is in the mental and spiritual care of an OCD patient, if someone will teach them. But no, not every priest in the present age has that kind of knowledge, and some even have some incorrect prejudices about the condition. Even priests have prejudices and suffer from misinformation when it comes to mental illness. If it is at all possible, she deserves to have her confession heard by someone that can assure her that he understands both sides of her problem well enough to tend to the spiritual side as the physician of her soul. In that case, I think if he tells her that her OCD is so mitigating that she has nothing to confess with respects to the issues she’s confessing, she’ll hear what he’s saying, and take it as a relief, a kindness, and a mercy. So far, though, she’s not there yet.
 
Angeluzza…One very important point:

You have made a good-faith effort to confess your sins. Until you can find a priest who will hear your confession, you bear NO culpability for having not confessed your sins. If your soul were at stake, the priest would have heard your confession; at least, if he didn’t, that decision is on his head, not yours. As it is, he decided you have no culpability, save if you aren’t having your condition treated. You may follow his decision with confidence that your soul will be in NO PERIL for having done so.

Your priest told you to go get your OCD taken care of. Fine. If you are working with a professional, you are covered. Whether or not you take medications for your condition is between you and your physician. You do have the moral right to have a say in that. The priest only means that you accept medical help, not that you are morally bound to do whatever a doctor tells you to do without question or without using your own judgment.

If you get medical help and your confessor tries to second-guess your medical help or your personal medical decisions, find a different confessor.

If your confessor tells you that medical help has failed to help you to the point that you are not culpable for your moral choices–or at least none of the stuff that you’re confessing–that you should just do your best, then believe him. He is qualified to make that decision. What he declares loosed on earth is loosed in Heaven, too.

In other words: You can go to Holy Communion now. Don’t stay away.

And if a priest tells you that you aren’t culpable, you’re not. He is the expert on that.
 
Steave said:
Please do not be ashamed of your OCD there are others of us out there. OCD is a gift from God, it gives you an attetnion to detail that others do not have, it also comes with burdons, but why even look at the negatives its not neccessary.

As far as confession, why even say you have OCD? I never do, what I have done out of my own free will is sin, and what I earnstly understand I had no control over not neccesarry, if your on the boarderline, why not just ask, " is situation X a sin?" priests quite often answer just perfectly and make me feel better. It is compelety uneccessary to say you have OCD, and if your wondering if I go to confession the answer is yes, and I go weekly as well.

Pray about your OCD, ask God to help you aim it in a positive direction, to make your life more efficiant, I prayer to the virgin mary for a while and she helped me big time with my problems.

On a last note, my father and I both have OCD and both say is what makes us what we are, yes difficult to deal with, but also a great gift. I am a Bio-medical engeneer, and my father is actually a brain surgeon beleive it or not, and aslo most of his partners have OCD, so it is overcomable, its just how do you use it to you advantage.
Code: 
               My brother or sister your are in my prayers
                                 -Steave
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It actually can be helpful to tell the priest you have OCD. That way, the priest can better understand how to deal with you. They have actually given this advice in the Scrupulous Anonymous newsletter, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I never tell the priest I have OCD because I am too shy, and I often wonder if the priest wonders why Confession is so difficult for me or why I am so strange about it. Perhaps having this information would help him understand.
 
WOW! Thank you for all the replies, as well as the prayers 🙂 I am grateful! There is much to read and reread, so plenty of “food for thought” to consider. Thanks!

My basic frustration with the whole situation was the very brief conversation, the priests seemingly quick assumption that because I mentioned OCD he had me all “figured out,” and his subsequent complete refusal to help me any further unless I went on medication.

As I told him in our meeting, I am rational. I know the difference between my OCD and what is not OCD. It just makes confession and communion and nightmare, and so I do not go, but I want to. (I was also having a “problem” in another area of my life that I was hoping to get some feedback on, which was completely unrelated and unaffected by OCD, but which he seemed to automatically assume was colored by OCD.)

Yet he refused to help me unless I went on medication. His words were “I am willing to help you, but only if you take these steps and go to see this person and go on medication.” And he gave me the name of a woman to contact. From what I gathered, he seemed to claim to have a background in psychology and seems to be well versed in it, so I do not think he felt as if he was in over his head. I think perhaps the problem was that his background made him think he had me all figured out with three words: “I have OCD.”

What was highly hurtful was the complete refusal to help unless I took medication. I have a friend whose family member took a bottle of pills, wrote a suicide letter, wandered through a store in a dazed state talking nuts, was picked up by the police, escaped the hospital they took him to, was found the next day, talked insane about how he was going to another planet, and was then held for about 5 days against his will in an institution. After being released, he talked about wanting to get a gun, would go nuts out of nowhere and start kicking and pounding on things, and yet, even his psychologist he was seeing did not say to him “either take medication or I will not help you.” He continued to help him, even though he did not want to be on medication.

It just seemed wrong to me for someone to make such an ultimatum. Especially when the sacraments are involved.

Taking medication at this point in my life is simply not an option, for many reasons, and it is upsetting that the priest was not willing to consider my viewpoint, as if I was an irrational person who could not make a sane choice for myself or does not have a say with what goes into my body. Like I mentioned, I have tried them before, and no help. Second, I do not want to be on medication. I have never had the best of health, and psychiatric drugs have whole lists of potential side affects that I really do not want to take the chance of incurring. The last time I was on them, I had very minor brain “shocks” when I tried to get off. If I had stayed on them longer, I may never have been able to get off them. I do not want to rely on medication all my life.

Finally, I would be happy to get help for this if I could - to meet with a psychologist and try to treat this without medication - but I do not have insurance at the moment and cannot afford to go to someone, even if they are willing to work with me on a sliding scale.

If the priest thought medication was a good option, fine, he could have suggested it I feel. But To present me with such an ultimatum was very hurtful to my own dignity as a human being to make rational decisions for myself, and seemed very one sided. That is why I wonder if the priest was wrong to hand me such an ultimatum - which he very clearly did.

Whew! That was a ramble… as you can perhaps see, it bothers me very much 😦 BUT thank you for all your advice and prayers! I did go to confession today, and had a very nice priest…I am just trying to work through this on my own at this point. I just was hoping to have someone who could guide me through and help me understand what things I need to confess and what I do not, as OCD tends to blur that line insanely and being on your own can make you feel like you are running in circles.

I guess I was just wondering if such an ultimatum is allowed in the Church? Thanks!!
 
joannazenobia;:
I would assume that Priests have boundaries like Doctors and Lawyers that they are not allowed to cross by ethical standards (or perhaps even Law, maybe even Chruch law?). They are not qualified nor do they have any authority to give any kind of advice, as innocent as it may seem, especially when it comes to mental conditions.
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The Priest was asked to help with specific Spiritual conditions. Granted those conditions can affect, and be affected by both physiological and psychological conditions. That does not excuse the refusal of the Priest to help the person with their Spiritual Condition.
See a priest cannot know whether your issues could simply be fixed with a proper treatment from a doctor who specializes in your condition.
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The irony here is that one of the more effective methods of symptom substitution for OCD was developed by the Catholic Church, albeit not for that specific purpose.
And you just don’t know, if you are not on a treatment course now perhaps that’s all the fix you really need?
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For OCD, medication is not a viable cure, but mere symptom substitution. The major issue is whether or not the primary effects of that medication are worth the chance that a side effect — OCD symptom substitution — will “work”.

As far as “treatment” goes, there is no known cure for OCD. You manage it with symptom substitution.

jonathon
 
Angeluzza said:
For years now, I have had OCD, which also makes me very scrupulous when it comes to confession and communion. My OCD is pretty much limited to my thoughts, which means I get a lot of unwanted thoughts. I am pretty rational otherwise, and not nuts. I can differentiate clearly between OCD and reality.

Over the years, I have had a very hard time of it with confession. I would get so nervous going in, because I was afraid to tell these things to someone. (Part of it is that sometimes the thoughts are so strong it is like a battle, and I am never sure if I do give in to some of them however briefly.)
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Same with me - I also have times when there’s rapid, unwanted thoughts (usually a rambling loop of words/phrases). I’ve read somewhere that any bad thoughts from that aren’t a sin since you can’t really control them (unless you start focusing on the thought).
Steave said:
Please do not be ashamed of your OCD there are others of us out there. OCD is a gift from God, it gives you an attetnion to detail that others do not have, it also comes with burdons, but why even look at the negatives its not neccessary.
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True. I tend to remember things other people don’t. (It was so funny at work, since my former boss would always come over and say, “Do you remember such and such thing so-and-so said last November?”. :D) It pays off in computer programming, since there’s so many things that had a unique fix, and it’s much faster than going through several years worth of notes.
 
“The irony here is that one of the more effective methods of symptom substitution for OCD was developed by the Catholic Church, albeit not for that specific purpose.”

Wow, what was it? Now I am curious 🙂
 
Hello I have OCD and I do sympathise. I have yet to meet a priest who knows this condition well.

I have been off meds for two months (first time off in seven years) and I feel great mentally although the side effects are hellish. That is not to say meds do not help. The only advice I can give is be comforted as there are more of us out there than you would beleive and also God knows your struggle and if you offer up your suffering you may be beating down a straighter path to Heaven. In Christ, JG
 
Taking medication at this point in my life is simply not an option, for many reasons, and it is upsetting that the priest was not willing to consider my viewpoint, as if I was an irrational person who could not make a sane choice for myself or does not have a say with what goes into my body. Like I mentioned, I have tried them before, and no help. Second, I do not want to be on medication. I have never had the best of health, and psychiatric drugs have whole lists of potential side affects that I really do not want to take the chance of incurring. The last time I was on them, I had very minor brain “shocks” when I tried to get off. If I had stayed on them longer, I may never have been able to get off them. I do not want to rely on medication all my life.
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Finally, I would be happy to get help for this if I could - to meet with a psychologist and try to treat this without medication - but I do not have insurance at the moment and cannot afford to go to someone, even if they are willing to work with me on a sliding scale.
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The priest should not decide you need to be on medication. That is not his decision to make. You need to find another priest.
 
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