No More Defending Or Apologizing!

[Psalm45_9]

MikeinSD:

Please contact yr HR dept. These people are creating a hostile work environment which is against federal and most state law. Harrassing an employee because of his religion falls under civil right protection laws. And I’m sure your employer will not like facing and multi-million dollar lawsuit. And on a personal note, I’m sorry that you’ve been abused like this.

When they first started coming in they were just trying to Evangelize the employees, getting the servers to pray with them. Every now and then when I was in the back room I would hear them dissing a Catholic doctrine, but I would brush it off; because from the comments they made, I knew they had no idea what they were talking about. Then the other bussers asked me about my religious affiliation in the back room around these people; I said that I was a practicing Catholic loud enough so they could hear me; hoping that that would cause them to stop their comments when I was in the back room. I was wrong, now it seems they are always talking about it. (The Saturday when the Pope died, one of the servers told me they were making jokes about it. I’m glad I wasn’t back there, I would have put them in their place with Catholic Answers tracts.)

Finally I had enough of them trying to Evangelize everyone, so last week when I punched out, I put on my street clothes, and with my Bible in one hand, I started handing out rosaries to the employees (who thanked me joyfully; although none practice the faith.) Because of this, this group has gotten more anti around me, I have noticed that they stopped asking the employees to pray with them. (I thought to myself, “Hmmmm… you don’t like it when you feel like someone is trying to evanglized people in a forward way?”)

I have a full time job now, so I’ve been trying to get up the guts to quite this job. Saturday’s actions have now justified my leaving. As for telling the HR manager, there is no HR manager. This is a private family run business. My boss is the HR manager. I don’t think she would do anything about it. As much as the employees don’t like the presence of this group, even my boss, and her daugher; who often serves them.

 

[misterX]

mozier:

Get ready for the following rant. Take a breath, and then read on:

I have finally had it with having my church and my faith attacked. Why is it that we Roman Catholics have to ALWAYS defend or explain our faith? I have had ENOUGH of it! WE are the one, true, original, and full Christian church! Not the Protestant Heretics or the Old Catholic/Polish National Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Schismatics! We have absolutely nothing for which to defend or apologize. If anything, it is THEY who have to defend THEIR faith.

The other night I was in this one AOL chat room, where once again these Protestants were completely trashing our Church. So I challenged them: I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary, or have purgatory or indulgences, or have the papacy, or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints, or have the Eucharist, or the other sacraments! When they tried to say that none of these are in the Bible, I pounced! I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible, and an incomplete Bible at that since they took out some of the Old Testament books! And who gave them to the right to do so? Who is their authority? And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?

I tell you, that felt GOOD!

Yeah, I know some of you will be tsk-tsking me and saying how uncharitable I was and what a poor example I was. TOO BAD! If you not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

As for me, I will NEVER again defend or be backed up against the wall when it comes to my Roman Catholic Faith. No, if anything, it is the heretics and schismatics who will have to explain and defend their faith to me!

AMEN!!!

I agree 100%. I think apologetics do a very important job. But only when it involves helping other catholics with a troublesome question. But as far as defending what we do or believe to other lesser christians ie protestants ( And i say lesser with the utmost respect, because protestants don’t follow the full teachings of Jesus. and if they aren’t following the full teachings of Christ then you can’t be a complete christian. sorry it might sound harsh but its a fact) I feel its a waste of time these people have lived a lie all their lives. Which is why they hate the church if they listen to it they will lose their one and only defence when facing God and that is ignorance. But i suggest you don’t get too worked up about these “people” Just say what i say to them " I don’t care what you think about me. You’re nothing now go away. (lol you should see the look on the mormons face when i say that). well i’m off to post a question in ask a apologetic.

Deus exsisto vobis totus

 

[Singinbeauty]

misterX:

I agree 100%. I think apologetics do a very important job. But only when it involves helping other catholics with a troublesome question. But as far as defending what we do or believe to other lesser christians ie protestants ( And i say lesser with the utmost respect, because protestants don’t follow the full teachings of Jesus. and if they aren’t following the full teachings of Christ then you can’t be a complete christian. sorry it might sound harsh but its a fact) I feel its a waste of time these people have lived a lie all their lives. Which is why they hate the church if they listen to it they will lose their one and only defence when facing God and that is ignorance. But i suggest you don’t get too worked up about these “people” Just say what i say to them " I don’t care what you think about me. You’re nothing now go away. (lol you should see the look on the mormons face when i say that). well i’m off to post a question in ask a apologetic.

Deus exsisto vobis totus

Do you think that ALL protestants hate the catholic church?

And I am only asking because, well you know, I am a lesser christian and my head isn’t on straight.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

misterX:

But i suggest you don’t get too worked up about these “people”

English teacher comment: When you put something in quotation marks, unless it is a quotation, you are implying that it is untrue.

Are you saying that these people aren’t people?

Please, I don’t think labels like “lesser christians” are very Christlike. The “full teachings of Christ” are very hard to understand. Jesus didn’t give us a set of rules. If people misunderstand, by all means, guide them to the truth – but don’t offend them.

 

[Paris_Blues]

Singinbeauty:

Do you think that ALL protestants hate the catholic church?

And I am only asking because, well you know, I am a lesser christian and my head isn’t on straight.

No, I don’t think ALL Protestants hate the CC because both my parents are Protestant.

However, if people are Protestant yet don’t hate the Church, than why the heck are they Protestant?

 

[Singinbeauty]

However, if people are Protestant yet don’t hate the Church, than why the heck are they Protestant?

I may not agree with their teachings but it doesn’t mean that I hate them.

 

[Paris_Blues]

Singinbeauty:

I may not agree with their teachings but it doesn’t mean that I hate them.

Okay. My question is, would Protestants really desire to know the Truth? The Fullness?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Okay. My question is, would Protestants really desire to know the Truth? The Fullness?

Of course! And just like the catholics feel that they have found it, what they need to realize is, the protestants believe that they also have found it with every bit as much zeal as the catholics. Both sides are passionate about the beliefs that they hold dear. The decisions that they have made are made seriously and done with a lot of soul searching. At least those who are not cradle-catholic/protestant and have just accepted what they are told. Take me for instance… I did not arrive to my conclusion lightly. I am not trying to be rebellious or turning my back on God and what He has done for me. By any of you attacking my beliefs you attack ME personally because this is ME. We are defined by our beliefs. You attack the belief you attack the soul. This is why I refrain from attacking any of those who attack me, even if I feel like it!

 

[scylla]

Very good point singingbeauty, that is how many people define themselves in part by their beliefs. Yet when we feel truth is mis-represented what should we do?

If I am talking to a Pentacostal who’s beliefs include what I feel are a mis-representation of the Bible and they do not even care where the Bible comes from what am I to do?

It is a difficult situation, if you say that they need to seek truth, many people will take that to mean that they are living a lie. Generally Catholics do not mean that at all, yet people assume that is what is means, since most of Protestantism is defined in some part by a rejection of Catholicism.

Catholics believe that a Pentacostal, Evangelical, etc…would have truth in their beliefs and wouldn’t really have to reject those beliefs to be Catholic, but rather complete their belief.

It becomes a delicate situation as we often talk past each other and allow prejudices to interfere with a search for truth.

I was talking with a missionary from an evangelical Church last week and all he would bring up was what was wrong with the Catholic Church, instead of proving divine inspiration for the foundation of his Church. Which is the basis for a very negative discussion, instead of searching for truth he just wanted to disprove Catholicism and not even prove his faith tradition correct, but correct by default.

I don’t agree with defending without love or just attacking, but rather searching for truth together with the person with whom you are talking to. Unfortunately most people aren’t willing to do this, since then they do not have control and they aren’t willing to follow truth wherever it leads them. So you are right it shouldn’t be about attacking, but a search for ultimate truth.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Singinbeauty]

If I am talking to a Pentacostal who’s beliefs include what I feel are a mis-representation of the Bible and they do not even care where the Bible comes from what am I to do?

You plant the seed with love and you walk away. You tell them that this is what you have found and you say no more. We have to take from Jesus’ example. Did He argue and attack people when they objected? No, He simply told them the Truth and He walked away. The seed needs to be planted but God is the cultivator. It’s up to Him and that person on how that seed grows.

 

[scylla]

Beautiful, that is very true, we should plant seeds of truth, pray and let God handle it.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Singinbeauty]

I believe that if we all took a step back and realized that it is not up to US to save the world life would be a whole lot simpler. We got off track somewhere when we decided that WE were the saviors of the world and that only WE can tell it, and beat into it, the whole TRUTH. That is not our job! Our job is to live like Christ and to spread the news that He is risen! It is not up to us to make the decision for our fellow man. You can’t do that… but some of us have decided that we can and will beat on the other person and drive more of a wedge between them and God than we might have wanted.

This is why I am developing a website for christians. I am designing a place for christians to submit articles and blurbs about their personal experiences of walking with Christ and what that entails for them. This is primarily a protestant site because I am protestant BUT I welcome articles from catholics also because I believe we are all christians and have a lot of important things to say. If you want to know the address of the site just PM me… I don’t want anyone thinking I am trying to advertise or be a troll…

 

[bookgirl]

bookgirl:

Yes, there is. Up to this point, the Catholic Church was the only one having picked up on that fact , or so I thought. Which Church do you go to? And what are your fellow “Words of God” (in other words, what is the difference you’re speaking of?) — These are VERY sincere questions by the way, clarifying to make sure they didn’t come off sarcastic or rhetorical.

SB,

Did you see this message? :dancing: Just wondering.

 

[Singinbeauty]

bookgirl:

SB,

Did you see this message? :dancing: Just wondering.

I apologize! I did see it but with all the craziness and the frustration I took a step back but forgot to come back to it! I did have a question of clarity… What did you mean by

And what are your fellow “Words of God”

It may be my dyslexia rearing it’s head…

 

[bookgirl]

My church is not built soley on the bible but on the Word of God. There is a difference.

SB,

This was your quote earlier, I wanted to know what the difference was between being based solely on the Bible vs. the Word of God. If the Bible is not your only Word of God, what else do you have?

 

[Singinbeauty]

The bible without the Holy Spirit guiding interpretation is just that… the bible. But coupled with the Holy Spirit it IS the Word of God. This is what I meant about not being built soley on the bible. Because I do believe that the Holy Spirit guides my pastor in his sermons.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Singinbeauty:

I believe that if we all took a step back and realized that it is not up to US to save the world life would be a whole lot simpler. We got off track somewhere when we decided that WE were the saviors of the world and that only WE can tell it, and beat into it, the whole TRUTH. That is not our job! Our job is to live like Christ and to spread the news that He is risen! It is not up to us to make the decision for our fellow man. You can’t do that… but some of us have decided that we can and will beat on the other person and drive more of a wedge between them and God than we might have wanted.

This is why I am developing a website for christians. I am designing a place for christians to submit articles and blurbs about their personal experiences of walking with Christ and what that entails for them. This is primarily a protestant site because I am protestant BUT I welcome articles from catholics also because I believe we are all christians and have a lot of important things to say. If you want to know the address of the site just PM me… I don’t want anyone thinking I am trying to advertise or be a troll…

First let me say - I am catholic, and follow the teachings of the Magisterium. Having said that, let me point out a few things…

S.B - you are more Catholic than you realize

The Church is the framework of the Life of Faith, the Holy Spirit is our guide, comforter, and ‘Holy Supplier’ for all things necessary, and Christ is the way/truth/life - reason for all…our Salvation.

Now - the Church teaches that outside of the Church there may be found salvation. So, all you people who insist on ‘beating the church into them heretic protestants’ - how do you rationalize that action, with what I have quoted from S.B. above? S.B. appears to have a very good grasp of what the Life is all about, CONVERSION. Maybe a little more time spent in that occupation, and a little less spent tracking down and being a negative example to Protestant Christians, would be more productive, for ourselves - which ought to be our primary concern: " For what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul" Matt. 16:24-26 - and, apparently, for them as well.

To the OP:

Conversion of ourselves, first and foremost - is the essence of Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular. Allowing others to deviate us from that course is, IMO, allowing the devil a foothold. Not that protestants - or even Catholics who do sway us, are the devil - that for anyone who likes to read too far into things :bigyikes: - but, in that being distracted from our primary objective - conversion of ourselves, allows the devil a foothold from which, if left unchecked - our downfall may result. I Tim. 1:19. Relax, take a deep breath - and focus on YOUR faith. In so doing - you will be better able to give that reason for your Hope, in gentleness and respect. I Pet. 3:15,16.

Not that I have never lost it with people, noooo , but - I have learned that as a witness for eternity…forever is a LONG time - and I fear that if, by the Grace of God, I recieve the prize of eternal life with God - my peace may be marred by the uncharitable actions I have had towards others also searching for Our Lord. Whether they ultimately find Him or not - is THEIR choice, how they act during that search - is their responsibility and between them and God - How I act however - is between me and God. I will have enough to answer for - without adding to the list out of spite and malice.

Peace in Christ Our Lord

 

[Psalm45_9]

Well, I put in my two week notice today, my boss saw it coming too. I will be seeing that group still, because me and my friends there will be going out to eat afterwards like we usually do. But now that I’m not longer an employee, I can educate them about what the church really teaches.

 

[migurl]

I understand how irritating it is to have people gang up on the Catholic faith. We have to deal with politics and an immorality in this world today that is so very hostile to Catholic beliefs. Our faith is not an easy one, we have many beliefs that no one wants to have to deal with because they eliminate the easy way out. I get how we need to be charitable to others, especially those that do not “like” us, but I am so tired of catholics backing away slowling with the" oh, I have told yuo what I believe, but it’s ok that you don’t believe it" kind of attitude. Sometimes people need to be slapped in the face with the truth before they see it and others are so used to catholics cowering in a corner hoping no one notices they are there, that these other people think that they can say whatever they want about Catholics and nothing will happen. Look at TV, movies and comedy sketches. I have rarely (if ever) heard a joke about buddism (spelling??) or protestantism, it is always about catholics and priests etc. I am sick of it. We have to stand up and remember that the even Jesus got upset at people, remember the Temple and how he got so angry at the people turning into a market place?

 

[Singinbeauty]

We have to stand up and remember that the even Jesus got upset at people, remember the Temple and how he got so angry at the people turning into a market place?

But his anger was a righteous anger about them defiling the temple of God. Most of the time the anger that is produced through us (I include us protestants also) is one of frustration because people don’t see it the way we think they should. When the pharasees and such objected to Jesus and what He was talking about did He spit in their face or call them names or get angry at them? I haven’t seen proof of it. He spoke to them in love and always spoke of the Truth. And then, He walked away. He didn’t argue with them or try to force them to change their minds or even try to teach them about respect for His beliefs. He simply planted the seed and walked away.