No More Defending Or Apologizing!

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mozier

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Get ready for the following rant. Take a breath, and then read on:

I have finally had it with having my church and my faith attacked. Why is it that we Roman Catholics have to ALWAYS defend or explain our faith? I have had ENOUGH of it! WE are the one, true, original, and full Christian church! Not the Protestant Heretics or the Old Catholic/Polish National Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Schismatics! We have absolutely nothing for which to defend or apologize. If anything, it is THEY who have to defend THEIR faith.

The other night I was in this one AOL chat room, where once again these Protestants were completely trashing our Church. So I challenged them: I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary, or have purgatory or indulgences, or have the papacy, or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints, or have the Eucharist, or the other sacraments! When they tried to say that none of these are in the Bible, I pounced! I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible, and an incomplete Bible at that since they took out some of the Old Testament books! And who gave them to the right to do so? Who is their authority? And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?

I tell you, that felt GOOD!

Yeah, I know some of you will be tsk-tsking me and saying how uncharitable I was and what a poor example I was. TOO BAD! If you not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

As for me, I will NEVER again defend or be backed up against the wall when it comes to my Roman Catholic Faith. No, if anything, it is the heretics and schismatics who will have to explain and defend their faith to me!

AMEN!!!
 
If I were trying to explain the faith to someone, someone else with your attitude coming along and joining in the conversation would be the worst thing that could happen.

Christ asked us to make disciples of the nations. That means explaining our faith.

He also asked us to be a lamp in the darkness.

How is your attitude helping to accomplish either of those goals?
 
“…truth without love is a clanging symbol…”

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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mozier:
If you not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
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Unfortunately this is a terrably ironic statement as the attitude that started the schisms that you describe is one that seeks not to love his brother and seek restotution with him but rather to punish him and in the end make him be/feel inferior.

The best advice is “Make your words soft and sweet in the event you have to eat them later”.
 
I totally understand your frustration with people that attack our faith. I myself have shown my frustration at certain people that show their ignorance about Church teachings. :banghead: 😦

We must realize that this is something that has gone on for ages so we might as well just get used to it and try to show the one true faith by our examples. Believe me, I know how hard this can be at times but be comforted by the fact that all Catholics experience it in varying degrees at different times. :love:

Blessings,
Shannin
 
Yes, it’s very irritating! I was e-mailing someone from a recent group and told her WHY I left and told her how disappointed I was. She was like, 'well, I’m sorry if we were not showing our love from Christ towards you…" and yada yada yada.

Guys, is there a way we can convince them even though not convert them?
 
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bengeorge:
If I were trying to explain the faith to someone, someone else with your attitude coming along and joining in the conversation would be the worst thing that could happen.

Christ asked us to make disciples of the nations. That means explaining our faith.

He also asked us to be a lamp in the darkness.

How is your attitude helping to accomplish either of those goals?
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What about my attitude? If one is honestly looking into our faith, or wants to explore it, then that is a good thing and I will gladly do my part.

But my patience runs out when we are mindlessly and ignorantly attacked by Protestant Heretics (I know, we are supposed to call them “Separated Brethren” these days) who are not interested in learning about our faith, or having their misconceptions gently corrected. This is where my patience runs out, so I have no more need to defend my faith from this.

For me, I want THEM to defend THEIR faith to me.
 
Calm down, mozier. People can think what they like. We’re here on earth to peacefully point to Truth.

‘Zeal is a bad mark for a cause. Nobody has any zeal about arithmetic. It is not the vaccinationists but the antivaccinationists who generate zeal. People are zealous for a cause when they are not quite positive that it is true.’ - Betrand Russell
 
The best thing to do is to avoid situations that will anger you to such an extreme, and make you appear uncharitable (which I know you aren’t…just frustrated).

We must always remember we are Christians and we should never back down from explaining our faith, but always with a humble attitude.
 
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bengeorge:
If I were trying to explain the faith to someone, someone else with your attitude coming along and joining in the conversation would be the worst thing that could happen.

Christ asked us to make disciples of the nations. That means explaining our faith.

He also asked us to be a lamp in the darkness.

How is your attitude helping to accomplish either of those goals?
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you, if I were a non-catholic hearing these things I would come away with a more negative view of the Catholic Church:(

Trick
 
Ok, I know how this is going to sound but I will say it anyways…

OH WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH :crying: (Read sarcasm)

I am so sick and tired of ANYONE (protestant or catholic) complaining about the wounds that they have because of them having to defend their faith and how this or that group attacks them. SO WHAT? Who cares what others think of what you believe? IF YOU ARE TIRED OF FEELING LIKE YOU HAVE TO DEFEND OR APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR FAITH THEN STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT YOU BELIEVE! It’s going to happen no matter where you go. Each group feels like they have the handle on what to believe so by telling them that they are wrong is just going to cause friction and hatred.
The other night I was in this one AOL chat room, where once again these Protestants were completely trashing our Church. So I challenged them: I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary, or have purgatory or indulgences, or have the papacy, or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints, or have the Eucharist, or the other sacraments! When they tried to say that none of these are in the Bible, I pounced! I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible, and an incomplete Bible at that since they took out some of the Old Testament books! And who gave them to the right to do so? Who is their authority? And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?
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These Protestants? Do you notice that you are such a hypocrite? The exact same thing that you are complaining about right here is what you are doing to these protestants. It’s people like you that keep people like me from really seeing the love and caring that catholics CLAIM to be a part of.

#1. I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary
We don’t feel the need for it. Nor do we see the purpose

#2. or have purgatory or indulgences
I don’t know about indulgences and it’s meaning here but purgatory makes no sense to us. It doesn’t follow our belief system.

#3. or have the papacy
Don’t feel the need for it. We have the structure of authority there in the church. The pastors and elders and leadership teams.

#4. or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints
Because we pray directly to God and don’t believe that Mary or the saints can actually do ANYTHING for us.

#5. or have the Eucharist
Because we don’t believe that Jesus meant that he was LITERALLY in the bread and wine but that we are to remember Him and His sacrifice with deep reverence when we participate in communion.

#6. or the other sacraments
Like WHAT?

#7. I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible
Who said we WORSHIP the bible? Do we pray to it? Do we believe it can be an intecession between us and God? Do we sing songs about it? Do we bow before it? NO.

#8. Who is their authority?
I think this is a VERY simple answer… God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are our AUTHORITY.

#9. And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?
We could say the same thing about the Pope. The pastor isn’t a god. God is God. There is no one else.

All I have to say to Protestants and Catholics alike… GET OVER YOURSELVES! If you hate defending your faith then stop telling people what you believe. I for one will never get tired. I love my fellow man and if they want to resist then so be it. But God will never say that I didn’t try.
 
I think St. Paul has good advice here:

Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: 11 Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.
 
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mozier:
Get ready for the following rant. Take a breath, and then read on:

I have finally had it with having my church and my faith attacked. Why is it that we Roman Catholics have to ALWAYS defend or explain our faith? I have had ENOUGH of it! WE are the one, true, original, and full Christian church! Not the Protestant Heretics or the Old Catholic/Polish National Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Schismatics! We have absolutely nothing for which to defend or apologize. If anything, it is THEY who have to defend THEIR faith.

The other night I was in this one AOL chat room, where once again these Protestants were completely trashing our Church. So I challenged them: I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary, or have purgatory or indulgences, or have the papacy, or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints, or have the Eucharist, or the other sacraments! When they tried to say that none of these are in the Bible, I pounced! I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible, and an incomplete Bible at that since they took out some of the Old Testament books! And who gave them to the right to do so? Who is their authority? And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?

I tell you, that felt GOOD!

Yeah, I know some of you will be tsk-tsking me and saying how uncharitable I was and what a poor example I was. TOO BAD! If you not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

As for me, I will NEVER again defend or be backed up against the wall when it comes to my Roman Catholic Faith. No, if anything, it is the heretics and schismatics who will have to explain and defend their faith to me!

AMEN!!!
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I gotta admit, I wish I had been there…ok, ok…I’ll go stand behind you in line for confession… we can both confess sins against charity and patience…:love:
 
**Singingbeauty said to Moizer

:All I have to say to Protestants and Catholics alike… GET OVER YOURSELVES! If you hate defending your faith then stop telling people what you believe. I for one will never get tired. I love my fellow man and if they want to resist then so be it. But God will never say that I didn’t try.

A little harsh and hypocritical dont ya think.? She is trying to defend her faith as you claim above" that you will never stop trying to defend your’s."

I feel she was just re-acting to the anti-catholics dumping on the church. Its ok she got upset, as you did above with her comments and statements.

So respect and love for each other is the key,
Its only a discussion debate forum.

Sara**
 
A little harsh and hypocritical dont ya think.?
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The only hypocritical thing I have seen in this thread is from the original poster who claims to be tired of defending their faith to a group of people attacking it when they just turn around and do the same to that group. What did I say that was hypocritical? I said that I will never tire of defending and professing my faith. I didn’t say I was tired of it but expected others to have to do it. Do you even know what hypocrite means?

And I wasn’t just pointing this towards the OP I was directing it towards EVERYONE who whines and complains about having to be attacked for what they believe. Notice I said PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS ALIKE.

I do apologize to everyone though. Please know that anything I say that sounds angry is just coming from some family issues today. If you want to know what is going on please read the thread titled ‘My Cousin Aaron…’
 
I am so sick and tired of ANYONE (protestant or catholic) complaining about the wounds that they have because of them having to defend their faith and how this or that group attacks them.
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That’s ok…we understand that you feel just like the OP…in other words you are crying out with the exact same frustration he felt. And I mean this…you can do that here and I, for one, will not attack you with sarcasm for doing so, because every once in awhile everyone needs a safe place to vent.
SO WHAT? Who cares what others think of what you believe? IF YOU ARE TIRED OF FEELING LIKE YOU HAVE TO DEFEND OR APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR FAITH THEN STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT YOU BELIEVE!
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I disagree. I think it is very important that we never lose touch with our human weakness. And I think it is very important that we never stop sharing what we believe with each other and never stop being willing to defend the TRUTH.
It’s going to happen no matter where you go. Each group feels like they have the handle on what to believe so by telling them that they are wrong is just going to cause friction and hatred.
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But, you see, the Truth is the Truth…and what makes Catholics Catholics is that we must be willing to die for the Truth. We have been willing to do so since James was thrown from the Temple in Jerusalem, since Stephen was murdered, since Peter was crucified in Rome…we are who we are…willing to tell the Truth…no matter what. It’s just that sometimes we get tired. Like Peter, our first leader after Christ, we are not perfect.
These Protestants?
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Do you notice that you are such a hypocrite? *
Of course we do. We notice all our faults.That is why we are so grateful for the Sacrament of Reconcilliation as instituted by Our Lord and rooted in Holy Scripture. We are, afterall, just like Peter and Paul and John and Clement and Justin Martyr…and Mary Magdalene…we are like all the disciples of our Lord save one - Mary the Queen of Heaven. She alone was the only perfect Christian, the only perfect creature.
The exact same thing that you are complaining about right here is what you are doing to these protestants. It’s people like you that keep people like me from really seeing the love and caring that catholics CLAIM to be a part of.
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Hopefully you will find it in your heart to forgive us.
#1. I wanted to know why they didn’t do the rosary
We don’t feel the need for it. Nor do we see the purpose
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It’s purpose is to allow us to pray with our entire being, and to meditate on the gospels. It is, in the words of Bishop Fulton Sheen, the most perfect form of prayer as it is taken from the scripture and requires us to use our bodies, our minds and our spirits. Many Protestants have found comfort in its use, contrary to popular belief it have been used in Anglican circles for years.
#2. or have purgatory or indulgences
I don’t know about indulgences and it’s meaning here but purgatory makes no sense to us. It doesn’t follow our belief system.
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Actually, many Protestants do believe in Purgatory. It is, after all, rooted in Scripture. See Matthew 5:48, Hebrews 12:14, James 3:2, Revelations 21:27, 1 John 5:16-17, James 1:14-15, 2 Samuel 12:13-14, Matthew 5:26, Mathew 12:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44-46, 1 Corrinthians 3:15, 1 Peter 3:18 - 20 and 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:16 -18 not to mention 1 Corinthians 15:29-30.
#3. or have the papacy
Don’t feel the need for it. We have the structure of authority there in the church. The pastors and elders and leadership teams.
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Actually, some Protestant organizations do and some do not. One of the biggest problems is that anyone can set up a Protestant church and call themselves a minister. In fact, in popular culture, when an ‘attack’ is made against a ‘church’ the media always uses a Catholic Church as its visual…it is done so for a reason and that is because the Universal Church is what it is.
#4. or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints
Because we pray directly to God and don’t believe that Mary or the saints can actually do ANYTHING for us.
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Recently, the doctrines that separate Protestants and Catholics regarding Mary and the Saints have virtually disappeared. This is due to the fact that all Christians recognize that death does not mean the end of life and praying to someone and asking for help is no different than asking your next door neighbor to pray for you. Again, refering to scripture Romans 8:35-39 reminds us the death cannot separate us from Christ and 2 Th 1:11 states that we will always pray for you…
 
continuing out of order (sorry!)
#5. or have the Eucharist
Because we don’t believe that Jesus meant that he was LITERALLY in the bread and wine but that we are to remember Him and His sacrifice with deep reverence when we participate in communion.
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Too bad…if this is truly your belief then you are like those who rejected Christ after his sermon…they too turned away from Him because what He said was just too much for them to understand. He did not run after them and say, “Wait…it’s ok…I was just speaking symbolically!” And from the earlies writings of the first Christians, it was always understood that the Eucharist was the BODY BLOOD SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ…Not a symbol. The first persecutions were because we were thought of as cannibals. We were thrown into pits and torn apart by lions because they thought we were cannibals. does that sound like something symbolic to you?
 
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Singinbeauty:
#4. or why they didn’t pray to Mary and the saints
Because we pray directly to God and don’t believe that Mary or the saints can actually do ANYTHING for us.

#5. or have the Eucharist
Because we don’t believe that Jesus meant that he was LITERALLY in the bread and wine but that we are to remember Him and His sacrifice with deep reverence when we participate in communion.

#6. or the other sacraments
Like WHAT?

#7. I demanded to know why they followed and worshiped the Bible
Who said we WORSHIP the bible? Do we pray to it? Do we believe it can be an intecession between us and God? Do we sing songs about it? Do we bow before it? NO.

#8. Who is their authority?
I think this is a VERY simple answer… God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are our AUTHORITY.

#9. And why do they follow everything their pastor says as if he were God?
We could say the same thing about the Pope. The pastor isn’t a god. God is God. There is no one else.

All I have to say to Protestants and Catholics alike… GET OVER YOURSELVES! If you hate defending your faith then stop telling people what you believe. I for one will never get tired. I love my fellow man and if they want to resist then so be it. But God will never say that I didn’t try.
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First of all, I remember hearing that Luther (who started the lovely Reformation [sarcasim]) actually HAD A DEVOTION to Mary! What’s up with that?

Now for Mary and the Saints? I was at RCIA a couple weeks ago and the priest told us that the reason we pray to the Saints/Mary is because we need their help. I’m sure all churches ASK PEOPLE in their churches if they pray for them! So why not ask a saint to pray for us? Do you think the Saints would pray for us when they’re up there with our Lord!???! 👍 We were also told that Mary was a human being just like ourselves too and we go to her to help us to be more holy though she didn’t sin. No, she wasn’t God or anything but she will help us come closer to her son. I also heard that she doesn’t want us to come to her but to her son through her or something like that.

Beautiful Sacraments like Matrimony, Annoiting of the Sick, Confirmation…etc. So beautiful!! 😃

And please tell me where does it say in the Bible that the Bible is ONLY the source?
 
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