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Jane11
Guest
I wonder what would happen if we all decided to do one Chaplet of Divine Mercy or a Rosary daily for vocations for the convent that the original post concerned?
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
Our Lady Rosa Mystica promised an increase in vocations with the prayers she gave us.
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Jane11
Guest
Exactly my point! Is anyone willing to make a commitment for a certain period of time to do this?
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Bebekoualy
Guest
Did she??? With what prayer? The daily Rosary?
I don’t think I could do it daily, too busy… But I can give one once a week.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
You have given up before you try. The rosary can be said anytime, anyplace. There are smaller rosaries that don’t look conspicuous (e.g. penal rosaries, and ring rosaries). I was going though a market one day, someone criticized me, someone else asked me to pray for them.
Prayer to “Rosa Mystica”
Rosa Mystica, Immaculate Virgin, Mother of Grace, in honour of your Divine Son, we prostrate ourselves at your feet to implore God’s mercy. We beg for help and grace, not relying on any merit of ours, but on the Kindness of your motherly heart, and confident that you will grant our urgent requests. (Hail Mary…)
Rosa Mystica, Mother of Jesus, Queen of the Holy Rosary and Mother of the Church, of the mystical body of Christ, we implore the gifts of unity and peace for the anxious world, and those graces so able to convert the souls of your erring children. (Hail Mary…)
Rosa Mystica, Queen of the Apostles, pray that many men and women may hear Christ’s call to priestly and religious vocations, and help them to spread the Kingdom of Jesus Christ throughout the world by the holiness of their lives and their burning zeal for the salvation of souls. Pour out your heavenly grace upon us! (Hail Mary…)
*(With ecclesiastical imprimatur) *
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arroy001
Guest
When I first began religious life I was upset that I would be required to go for a psychological test. After I met with the psychologist (a practicing Catholic), I realized the importance of this test, particularly for a cloistered vocation. When I met the sisters before entering they were charming. Once in the monastery, I realized that the vast majority of the sisters had never gone for psychological testing and the community (of less than a dozen) had at least three certified psychiatric cases - in addition to a number of sisters with other physical ailments - and these sisters were mentally ill from before entering. In the words of another religious, mentally unstable women tend to have a strong attraction to the cloister because there they’re cared for and are not judged since religious charity demands otherwise. And the psych test is to avoid having more such cases. Now, anyone going in needs to go with the maturity, strength and faith required to deal with these sisters for the rest of their days. I am a very mature person with a good preparation to help me deal with a number of situations, and it was still extremely hard for me to be in that environment. The sisters would even joke that some years back it was worse with another sister - may she rest in peace - who tried to kill another one with a knife. You think these things are jokes or uncharitable lies, but I lived it. Many times I felt as if I were in a psychiatric nursing home - and my vocation is not that of a psych nurse. So, though there is the danger of an evaluation by a skeptic or someone who does not understand the vocation to the vowed religious life, in the end it is a way of protecting the new ones from going through what I did, and it also helps the poor souls suffering from a mental illness, since they are better taken care of in the world rather than being cloistered where constant monitoring is not always feasible. Needless to say, I’m all for psychological testing before entering the postulancy AND before making solemn vows. Some people will say that there were mentally ill sisters in St Therese’s community. And I will tell them that if they do their research, two of them left the cloister after Therese’s death - one of them going to a psych ward. Before a polemic ensues, let me assure you that I am not against people who suffer from psychiatric conditions and that I firmly believe that people suffering such conditions can reach the heights of holiness through their suffering if they offer it in union with that of Christ’s, as Holy Mother Church teaches. Disclaimer: my experience may not be representative of all the struggling monasteries across the United States. May Our Lady and St Joseph intercede for us for an increase in vocations to the vowed religious life.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
I can empathise with you in your situation.When I first began religious life I was upset that I would be required to go for a psychological test. After I met with the psychologist (a practicing Catholic), I realized the importance of this test, particularly for a cloistered vocation. When I met the sisters before entering they were charming. Once in the monastery, I realized that the vast majority of the sisters had never gone for psychological testing and the community (of less than a dozen) had at least three certified psychiatric cases - in addition to a number of sisters with other physical ailments - and these sisters were mentally ill from before entering. In the words of another religious, mentally unstable women tend to have a strong attraction to the cloister because there they’re cared for and are not judged since religious charity demands otherwise. And the psych test is to avoid having more such cases. Now, anyone going in needs to go with the maturity, strength and faith required to deal with these sisters for the rest of their days. I am a very mature person with a good preparation to help me deal with a number of situations, and it was still extremely hard for me to be in that environment. The sisters would even joke that some years back it was worse with another sister - may she rest in peace - who tried to kill another one with a knife. You think these things are jokes or uncharitable lies, but I lived it. Many times I felt as if I were in a psychiatric nursing home - and my vocation is not that of a psych nurse. So, though there is the danger of an evaluation by a skeptic or someone who does not understand the vocation to the vowed religious life, in the end it is a way of protecting the new ones from going through what I did, and it also helps the poor souls suffering from a mental illness, since they are better taken care of in the world rather than being cloistered where constant monitoring is not always feasible. Needless to say, I’m all for psychological testing before entering the postulancy AND before making solemn vows. Some people will say that there were mentally ill sisters in St Therese’s community. And I will tell them that if they do their research, two of them left the cloister after Therese’s death - one of them going to a psych ward. Before a polemic ensues, let me assure you that I am not against people who suffer from psychiatric conditions and that I firmly believe that people suffering such conditions can reach the heights of holiness through their suffering if they offer it in union with that of Christ’s, as Holy Mother Church teaches. Disclaimer: my experience may not be representative of all the struggling monasteries across the United States. May Our Lady and St Joseph intercede for us for an increase in vocations to the vowed religious life.
Sorry if I mislead you. I am not against psychological testing - I am a Christian Counsellor - I feel it would be more prudent that someone with insight into Catholic spirituality and theology were employed in the task of psychological assessment.
To put it crudely a person believing a piece of bread could become God because special words were spoken over it may be classified schizophrenic by a non-Catholic psychologist.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
Members of Enclosed Orders are perhaps more vulnerable to psychological disorder than those Orders with a more cenobitic way of life. The Carthusians maintain they have the best of both worlds - hermits living in community. If one has a slight imperfection in psychological makeup chances are it will open up in solitude.
Poverty is serious in Religious Life - whilst working in a Nursing Home I witnessed not only long-married couples divorcing for financial betterment (a pragmatic option) but one nun whom the Order “could not afford” expelled from the Order to be maintained by the government (again, a pragmatic option and no less sad than a married couple).
Poverty is serious in Religious Life - whilst working in a Nursing Home I witnessed not only long-married couples divorcing for financial betterment (a pragmatic option) but one nun whom the Order “could not afford” expelled from the Order to be maintained by the government (again, a pragmatic option and no less sad than a married couple).
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Bebekoualy
Guest
You’re all right, Kevin Wilcox. I’ll really try my best. There was a miracle this week. We were three young people in the Abbey, and we did really “have fun” during a *Lectio Divina *session. I believe there can be vocations there. Even though the nuns are reluctant to have au-pair girls to help them, they fear they might get bored… or they fear to be disappointed again.
Thanks for the Prayer to “Rosa Mystica”. I’ll do my best, with the Rosary.
May the Lord bless you, arroy001. I’m so touched by the way you open your heart to us. I believe in what you say, I know in cloistered life, things can become bitter, and nightmarish… because we are at a confined place.When I first began religious life I was upset that I would be required to go for a psychological test. After I met with the psychologist (a practicing Catholic), I realized the importance of this test, particularly for a cloistered vocation. When I met the sisters before entering they were charming. Once in the monastery, I realized that the vast majority of the sisters had never gone for psychological testing and the community (of less than a dozen) had at least three certified psychiatric cases - in addition to a number of sisters with other physical ailments - and these sisters were mentally ill from before entering. In the words of another religious, mentally unstable women tend to have a strong attraction to the cloister because there they’re cared for and are not judged since religious charity demands otherwise. And the psych test is to avoid having more such cases. Now, anyone going in needs to go with the maturity, strength and faith required to deal with these sisters for the rest of their days. I am a very mature person with a good preparation to help me deal with a number of situations, and it was still extremely hard for me to be in that environment. The sisters would even joke that some years back it was worse with another sister - may she rest in peace - who tried to kill another one with a knife. You think these things are jokes or uncharitable lies, but I lived it. Many times I felt as if I were in a psychiatric nursing home - and my vocation is not that of a psych nurse. So, though there is the danger of an evaluation by a skeptic or someone who does not understand the vocation to the vowed religious life, in the end it is a way of protecting the new ones from going through what I did, and it also helps the poor souls suffering from a mental illness, since they are better taken care of in the world rather than being cloistered where constant monitoring is not always feasible. Needless to say, I’m all for psychological testing before entering the postulancy AND before making solemn vows. Some people will say that there were mentally ill sisters in St Therese’s community. And I will tell them that if they do their research, two of them left the cloister after Therese’s death - one of them going to a psych ward. Before a polemic ensues, let me assure you that I am not against people who suffer from psychiatric conditions and that I firmly believe that people suffering such conditions can reach the heights of holiness through their suffering if they offer it in union with that of Christ’s, as Holy Mother Church teaches. Disclaimer: my experience may not be representative of all the struggling monasteries across the United States. May Our Lady and St Joseph intercede for us for an increase in vocations to the vowed religious life.
I think the Psychological test is a blessing if the Psychologist believes in God. But I’d be afraid of going through it, of being told “no”, because I might be dangerous in cloistered life. Hard to face the sharp truth.
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Aramis
Guest
There are several different sets of devotional prayer which can be worked into one’s day easily.
The Dominican Rosary can be taken a decade at a time, for example, or all at once, or even once per set of mysteries. If you have 5 minutes, you have time to pray a decade of the Rosary… it takes 7 sets of 5m to do this.
Set 1: the introductory prayers, and the preview of the set of the mysteries
Sets 2-5: the mystery’s meditation, the Our Father, 10 Hail Mary’s, 1 Hail Holy Queen
Set 7: Final reflection (reread the texts of the 5 mysteries), and the closing prayers.
Was taught that by a Dominican friar.
Or the Eastern Catholic devotion of the Jesus Prayer: O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Used in the same manner as the Dominican Rosary. various regional variants are 30, 33, 50, 101, 150, or 300 count ; some include a stop at 3, 12 & 33 for additional prayers. The couunting device is the Chotki, and it is sometimes called the Eastern Rosary.
Both spread widely as a means for religious (& laymen) to pray at the hours when they could not pray the full hours (due to inability to read as much as tasks outside the cloister or lack of clerics).
Or even the trifold admission several times a day:
Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Lord, have mercy on me, for I have sinned.
Lord, forgive me, for I have sinned without number.
Or even, when you get a minute, a dozen “Lord, Have Mercy!”
There is always time for prayer… if you are willing to seize those small windows.
Oh, and as for counting… unless mutilated, you have 10 fingers.
…, ,|…
…, ,||…
…, ,|||.
…, ,||||
…, _||||
…|, _||||
etc
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
Personally I think the Orthodox “Jesus prayer” not suitable for a Catholic mind. It’s a whole different mind-set. It comes from a whole different environment and mystical understanding of prayer. An Orthodox practitioner would never have written “The Imitation of Christ” it’s a whole different understanding to relationship with God. A few years ago there was rise in popularity in the Catholic Church in “hesychast practice” (of which the “Jesus prayer” forms a part); and many Orthodox priests were angry and bewildered because of the lack of understanding supporting it.
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petitsourice
Guest
Please ask Pope Benedict to get this translated and made part of teaching at every parish on the planet.Definitely getting the Latin mass. I have thought about becoming a nun (I think the answer is no though) and I knew if it ever did happen, I’d find a place somewhere in the world, no matter where, with daily mass in Latin. There’s almost no motivation to join a convent that’s run by the people who helped enact the “reforms.” Honestly there’s a lot of people out there with not just a dislike of tradition, but a hate of it. The vocations will find the tradition, wherever it is. Because if you care that much about your faith, you will gravitate to tradition like a magnet, especially us young people who are tradition-starved.
Many convents and even seminaries have lost vocations because they were reformists. There was a book years ago (about 6 years back) I think it was titled, “How liberals stole our Catholic Church”. It was riddled with examples of seminarians thrown out for:
- devotion to Mary
- “fascination” with the rosary
- spending too much time in prayer
- not being open to other faith ideologies
- for being not sexually mature enough (used when they protested the teaching that Gay is OK)
etc.
People who get a calling to the Church do not want pro-women’s ordination, pro-gay, and ecumenical to a fault groups. Sadly, at the other end of the spectrum (Society of St. Pius X) there are groups in scism which also noone with a true calling will want to enter.
Benedict is continuing the investigations into American seminaries started by John Paul II in the early 2000s and I think that reforms are happening.
Example:
Notre Dame seminary’s mission statement has changed to no longer include requiring seminarians to submit to teachings done by protestants in their seminary. I wish I had saved their original mission statement. It was worded very cleverly (sort of like their use of the word, “contemporary” in their graduate goals statements of today) to mean that seminarians could expect to sit in classes taught by people hostile to the Church and to be evaluated by those people.
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petitsourice
Guest
The book I mentioned above (Praise God) showed up while perusing youtube on other catholic issues. It is called Goodbye, Good Men and written by Michael Rose.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
I was dismissed; I was told it was because I would be taking the Church back 200 years.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
This is exactly my argument against the use of psychologists who discern who is “worthy” of being a canditate for Religious Orders. Psychologists who are hostile or in misapprehension of the legitimacy of religious vocation and in misunderstanding of mystical theology. And it is upon such psychologists’ decision judgement by the Religious Orders is made. It is as though the devil himself should act as doorkeeper. And we ask why are there dwindling numbers of candidates testing vocations. I was told it is the best system we have:shrug:
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Aramis
Guest
It is used extensively by Eastern Church Catholics (Especially Byzantines) who are JUST as Catholic as the pope’s staff. It’s not just the EO who use it, and it’s been part of the Byzantine Catholic praxis since the reunification of the Ukrainians… about 4 centuries ago.
Not all use of the Jesus prayer is Hesychastic, either.
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petitsourice
Guest
Michael Rose pointed that out as well. That psych testing is usually done by those hostile to the church or ignorant of theology. Not to mention I have yet to meet one american physician who I think more of than a lawyer, banker, or serial rapist. Yes, strong words, but I hate phyicians. Especially now that we have more information available and searchable and its easy to learn how poor most of their decisions are (heard of ratemds.com?). Anyway, as another poster pointed out, someone who believes that speaking words over bread turns the bread into God is easy to call crazy.
And with the USCCB hiring pro-gay advisors I don’t see the problems in the american church going away. We need a good militant Pope to clean the cancer out of the church. John Paul kind of started the process and Benedict is continuing it but I don’t know if he is going to really do much more than talk and think about it.
Another poster pointed out that psych testing is a good way to weed out people who have mental disorders who gravitate towards religious life. I would hope that anyone who has merely read a USA Today article on schizophrenia would be able to spot one. I doubt that a panel of priests and/or sisters would have trouble identifying serious psychological problems. The issue is that everyone takes the word of doctors as being above the bible. If a doctor told some people in my family that the only way to save someone was to throw them out of an airplane without a parachute, they would go for it. And most of america is still hung up on that “Doctor knows best” mentality. NICU doctors still frequently refuse to give newborns pain medication post-surgery because there is no scientific evidence that newborns feel pain. It is speculated that NICU surgeons still only give infants up to 18 months of age a paralytic (and not a knock you out drug) before doing surgery. Giving anyone a huge degree of power just because they like to be called Doctor is a bad idea.
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petitsourice
Guest
By the way, for you young Catholics who like Traditional and non-reformist Catholicism:
WOW!
I am in my late mid thirties and my generation was still very liberal in our views of well, everything. And we were not very religious at all.
When I go into the confessional and I see a young priest, I always am grateful. They are the ones who have the nerve to tell it like it is. Well, them and some old traditional Jesuits I knew in Jacksonville, FL.
Its good to have you around.
WOW!
I am in my late mid thirties and my generation was still very liberal in our views of well, everything. And we were not very religious at all.
When I go into the confessional and I see a young priest, I always am grateful. They are the ones who have the nerve to tell it like it is. Well, them and some old traditional Jesuits I knew in Jacksonville, FL.
Its good to have you around.
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KEVIN_WILCOX
Guest
Proving yet again, I still have a lot to learn. Thank you. I think the best anyone can do who has undertaken spiritual life seriously is to find a holy spiritual director, a man of God to straighten their path. And place oneself in their hands.
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