No Morning Mass on days with a funeral?

[Jegudiel]

This is not an excuse to not celebrate a daily liturgy. He is celebrating a daily liturgy by celebrating the Mass for the funeral.

I will also add that there is no requirement that any priest celebrate a daily Mass what so ever.

I’m sorry but you simply don’t understand. Roughly 50 people attend the 07:00 Mass at my parish. 3/4 of those then go to work. They could not attend a 10:00 funeral Mass. To suggest it’s OK to deprive those people of such grace because of the “Canons” or because most weekdays are not obligations is just horrible. If the parish had no access to a priest that would be one thing. But to suggest the priest is “busy” and cannot find 25-45 minutes to celebrate the Mass because he is preparing for a later funeral Mass is insulting.

The priesthood is not something where the individual should aim for doing the minimal based on conformance to the “Canons.”

 

[Sirach2]

… but the priest is doing nothing wrong and is working fully within the Canons.

Ah yes, the letter of the law. And I can exempt myself from following my Rule using the loophole that my parish priest is not saying mass. Not so. As I said, the Spirit of the Law urges me to make an effort to find a mass elsewhere. Enough, Byz.

 

[Jegudiel]

No, I understand the difference quite well. The issue is that I do not consider, in terms of this discussion, one being vastly superior to the other. If you think one is, then make your argument, don’t just criticize another poster.

What’s the primary reason we attend Mass? It’s not for the reading of the word of God. It’s not for the preaching. It’s not to receive communion. It’s not to be in community.

It’s to be at the foot of Calvary when Jesus Christ is sacrificed to His Father for our sins.

One offers that. The other does not. Monumental difference.

 

[Jegudiel]

I think about Timothy Cardinal Dolan offering a televised daily early morning Mass at St. Pat’s following his private holy hour. How many other metropolitans do that in the USA?

Trying to comprehend how busy each day must be for him (including celebrating funeral Masses) and understanding his commitment to celebrating the early Mass (his daily connection with his flock) makes me further reject the practice cancelling morning Masses by some priests because they are celebrating a later funeral Mass – canons or not.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Ah yes, the letter of the law. And I can exempt myself from following my Rule using the loophole that my parish priest is not saying mass. Not so. As I said, the Spirit of the Law urges me to make an effort to find a mass elsewhere. Enough, Byz.

Our rule does not require attendance at daily Mass.

1. An oratory as far as it can be done conveniently, is to be built in the midst of the cells, where you must come together every day in the morning to hear Mass, where this can be done conveniently.

Notice the use of conveniently twice.

Also we must not forget;
24. . . Use discernment, however, which is the guide of the virtues.

As for the “enough” comment, I believe that is bout out of linecand very disrespectful. If you have had enough then do not reply or put me on your ignore list. I reserve the right to repky to anything and everything here at CAF until tolotherwise by the mods here.

 

[Julia_Mae]

What’s the primary reason we attend Mass? .

I don’t know who “we” is, but I think a lot of others, would vigorously disagree with your answer. Certainly, I do. We are not “at the foot of Calvary” resacrificing Jesus.

The Church teaches that the Mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, which also is invariably misunderstood by anti-Catholics. The Catholic Church does not teach that the Mass is a re-crucifixion of Christ, who does not suffer and die again in the Mass.

Yet, it is more than just a memorial service. John A. O’Brien, writing in The Faith of Millions, said, “The manner in which the sacrifices are offered is alone different: On the cross Christ really shed his blood and was really slain; in the Mass, however, there is no real shedding of blood, no real death; but the separate consecration of the bread and of the wine symbolizes the separation of the body and blood of Christ and thus symbolizes his death upon the cross. The Mass is the renewal and perpetuation of the sacrifice of the cross in the sense that it offers [Jesus] anew to God . . . and thus commemorates the sacrifice of the cross, reenacts it symbolically and mystically, and applies the fruits of Christ’s death upon the cross to individual human souls. All the efficacy of the Mass is derived, therefore, from the sacrifice of Calvary” link

And if one cannot have a Mass, and still wishes to begin the day with the Word, the Prayer and the Eucharist, the Communion Service is just as much those thing. The Sacrifice is not absent, as long as the Eucharist is present.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Our rule does not require attendance at daily Mass.

1. An oratory as far as it can be done conveniently, is to be built in the midst of the cells, where you must come together every day in the morning to hear Mass, where this can be done conveniently.

Notice the use of conveniently twice.

But your Rule is not the topic here. The topic here is how discommoded people are by the actions of the Pastor and Sirach posting a thread about that and also looking for ideas to help those people.

BTW, “conveniently” does not mean “easily.” Your Rule is written in Latin, is it not? What Latin word is used there?

 

[Sirach2]

ByzCath,

Maybe I should have spelled it out, since you are largely misinterpreting my meaning. Enough… means, please refrain from the type judging you have been making with regard to others’ posts. It did not mean you may not post. I am surprised that you are overly sensitive, for a Carmelite.

And your Rule is not the same as mine, even though we are both Carmelites. Nevertheless, discernment for me means try to live the spirit of my Rule wherever possible, rather than rejoice that I have a day off from keeping it, due to outside factors not in my control. These are the type of judgments I refer to. You are trying to pin me to your views without respecting mine. As I said, you are free to disagree. Enough said.

 

[Jegudiel]

I don’t know who “we” is, but I think a lot of others, would vigorously disagree with your answer. Certainly, I do. We are not “at the foot of Calvary” resacrificing Jesus.

And if one cannot have a Mass, and still wishes to begin the day with the Word, the Prayer and the Eucharist, the Communion Service is just as much those thing. The Sacrifice is not absent, as long as the Eucharist is present.

We = ALL Catholic Christians who attend Catholic sacrificial liturgies including the Mass.

Why did you just mention “resacrificing Jesus”? That is HIGHLY offensive. I said no such thing nor did I infer any such thing. During the celebration of the Mass we ARE at the foot of Calvary at the representation of Jesus Christ being sacrificed to His Father for our sins. The sacrifice is existential – it’s eternal, but only at sacrificial liturgies do we stand at the foot of Calvary. It’s not "my definition. It belongs to the Catholic Christian faith.

The primacy of why we attend Mass – to be at the foot of Calvary and to bath in the salvific graces stemming from the crucifixion is basic cathchesis. It’s not to receive communion. You are terribly wrong to suggest "The Sacrifice is not absent, as long as the Eucharist is present."

“Phemie” appears to have been right. Some people DO equate the communion services to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and that is terribly problematic. This very much surprised me because this entire discussion is based on very basic catechesis.

 

[Phemie]

“Phemie” appears to have been right. Some people DO equate the communion services to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and that is terribly problematic. This very much surprised me because this entire discussion is based on very basic catechesis.

Not for nothing did Rome include these articles in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause,”%between% then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.%between%
[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of the Eucharist.%between% The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.
[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

Considering the above it’s beyond me how parishes can justify having a Communion Service during the week ‘on Father’s day off.’

 

[Jegudiel]

Not for nothing did Rome include these articles in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Considering the above it’s beyond me how parishes can justify having a Communion Service during the week ‘on Father’s day off.’

I think the grace that comes from being nourished by the Blessed Sacrament is great enough that a communion service should be offered when no sacrificial liturgy is possible. THAT SAID along with communion services comes a need it would appear to increase catechesis on exactly why we attend the Mass and just how greatly it differs with regard to a communion service.

It IS a huge matter if some believe “the sacrifice is not absent” if the Blessed Sacrament is present at a communion service…

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please remember that no one is to denigrate the clergy on CAF. Don’t post what you think they should be doing/not doing. Such speculations are meaningless and are helpful to no one. And don’t take threads off topic. If you want to discuss some side aspect, please start a new thread. Thank you all.