No mortal sin...

[ProVobis]

I think it’s rather people are using “mortal” and “grave” incorrectly. “Grave” qualifies the objective act (matter), and “mortal” qualifies the conditions of commission of the act (sin) by a specific person.

But my point is that these are only general conditions and nebulous at best. What exactly is “grave” in the matter of stealing? How about disobeying your parents or the law? What about looking at “dirty” pictures? How long can one get away with doing it before it becomes “grave”? If I keep stealing $10 at a time, I’m okay at the venial level unless I plan to steal $10000 overall? I think we only steal as much as we can get away. Same with gossiping or most other things. So stealing a small amount of money can be graver than one thinks. And I’ll let God judge me in regards to gravity, culpability, sufficient reflection, etc. through confession. He knows me better than I do.

 

[ProVobis]

So yes, if you, large numbers of folks at your parish, or anyone was taught that you cannot receive the Eucharist with such unconfessed sins, then indeed it was misinformation and if that alone keeps someone from receiving the Eucharist then that is a disadvantage.

Could it be that parents are misinforming their own kids by telling them to go to confession after they’ve been caught in a lie or by disobeying them?

 

[mommamaree]

Strange? Well, in the sense that it is probably not common then sure. It certainly is possible for a human to not commit mortal sin. Mary didn’t. God instructs us not to. So it must be possible. But I doubt it is common. If it were common then one’s baptism would cover any need for future confession. And giving that the Church instructs us to go to confession once a year at the very least I would say that yes, it is uncommon.

The precept concerning confession is once a year to confess all serious sins. Venial sins can be remitted in a variety of ways. Venial sins may be confessed in confession, and it is a good practice, but our faith does not require it.

I have an examination of conscience, which is really good, and it has a mortal sin list, venial sin list, and imperfections. I got it from our parish. It has really helped me with forming my conscience and learning to not be overly scrupulous (common in new converts).

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

But my point is that these are only general conditions and nebulous at best. What exactly is “grave” in the matter of stealing? How about disobeying your parents or the law? What about looking at “dirty” pictures? How long can one get away with doing it before it becomes “grave”? If I keep stealing $10 at a time, I’m okay at the venial level unless I plan to steal $10000 overall? I think we only steal as much as we can get away. Same with gossiping or most other things. So stealing a small amount of money can be graver than one thinks. And I’ll let God judge me in regards to gravity, culpability, sufficient reflection, etc. through confession. He knows me better than I do.

Well that is where habit comes in. But if one were regularly going to confession…then this should be brought up (mortal or not). And a good confesser would advise you on how to stop stealing the $10. That is why it’s important to go to confession regularly. In my mind, it’s like a car…I throw a gum wrapper in the back seat…no big deal right? But if I do it every day over time it will be and should be cleaned out. Like when we go to confession.

 

[babochka]

But my point is that these are only general conditions and nebulous at best. What exactly is “grave” in the matter of stealing? How about disobeying your parents or the law? What about looking at “dirty” pictures? How long can one get away with doing it before it becomes “grave”? If I keep stealing $10 at a time, I’m okay at the venial level unless I plan to steal $10000 overall? I think we only steal as much as we can get away. Same with gossiping or most other things. So stealing a small amount of money can be graver than one thinks. And I’ll let God judge me in regards to gravity, culpability, sufficient reflection, etc. through confession. He knows me better than I do.

Well, this is before my day, but my dad (born in 1944) can remember from his catechism classes that stealing $99.99 was a venial sin, while stealing $100 was mortal. Such distinctions have always bothered me.

I don’t think that a child mortally sins by disobedience, lying, gossiping, or stealing a small amount, but I think that the failure to teach the child to repent and confess those sins will almost certainly lead to more serious sins later in life. Of course they should be confessed, but I don’t think that they must be confessed.

I don’t spend time wondering whether my sins are mortal or venial. I just bring everything that troubles my conscience to confession and avoid deliberately withholding any specific sin. I figure I’m covered that way and it doesn’t really matter in the end.

 

[Vico]

Well, this is before my day, but my dad (born in 1944) can remember from his catechism classes that stealing $99.99 was a venial sin, while stealing $100 was mortal. Such distinctions have always bothered me.

I don’t think that a child mortally sins by disobedience, lying, gossiping, or stealing a small amount, but I think that the failure to teach the child to repent and confess those sins will almost certainly lead to more serious sins later in life. Of course they should be confessed, but I don’t think that they must be confessed.

I don’t spend time wondering whether my sins are mortal or venial. I just bring everything that troubles my conscience to confession and avoid deliberately withholding any specific sin. I figure I’m covered that way and it doesn’t really matter in the end.

The Church does teach that venial sins are a weakening of charity, so children should be taught that. Grave vs mortal: grave is the seriousness and mortal is the culpability. The amount of theft accumulated today of about $300 amounts to grave matter (e.g., petty theft limit in Florida), so as an example using that, a series of smaller thefts repeated many times, becomes grave matter on the occurrence crossing $300. (I believe restitution is also required, when possible.)

 

[babochka]

The Church does teach that venial sins are a weakening of charity, so children should be taught that. Grave vs mortal: grave is the seriousness and mortal is the culpability. The amount of theft accumulated today of about $300 amounts to grave matter (e.g., petty theft limit in Florida), so as an example using that, a series of smaller thefts repeated many times, becomes grave matter on the occurrence crossing $300. (I believe restitution is also required, when possible.)

So $299 isn’t grave matter? What if it is $299 stolen from a poor neighbor?

You came up with the $300 number based on the amount of petty theft in Florida. In California it is $950. So, by your reckoning, one can commit a mortal sin in Florida, but can still steal an additional $649 before it becomes mortal in California.

I just don’t believe these things are quite so clear-cut.

 

[Veridical16]

Thanks be to God for being blessed with such a wonderful grace to fight against comiting mortal sin. I’ve heard it said of some of our great saints that they have also never comited any mortal sins as well. St Teresa of Avila, St Gemma Galgani, and St Therese of Lisieux are 3 saints that come to mind who have also never comited mortal sin.

However, I would like to give you this quote by St. Alphonsus of Ligouri about our Saint Teresa of Avila:

"Saint Teresa, as the Roman Rota attests, never fell into any mortal sin; but still Our Lord showed her the place prepared for her in Hell; not because she deserved Hell, but because, had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned.”
Saint Alphonsus Ligouri

So may I make a humble suggestion for you about this?** Thank God for the special grace of not falling into mortal sin**.

The grace is not special.** It is supposed to be the Norm**. We all have the graces we need , we just have to ask for it daily.

Being in a state of grace in the Catholic Church is supposed to be the Norm.
We should detest and avoid falling into Mortal Sin, as the sacramental graces would transform us to be horrified at committing the sin, and see it for its madness.

To be in a state of mortal Sin is to be in the anti-chamber of Hell.

Good on the OP, to ask this question.

It’s refreshing to hear, it should be seen as a sign that not all of us are swept up with the standards of our society.

Exactly, and it is this full consent of the will that I was told people are not capable of giving.

You were told wrong.

If Christ saw that no man was capable of betraying him with a mortal sin in spite of our baptism, he wouldn’t have gave us Confession to restore us to baptismal grace the eucharist would be enough to forgive our venial sins.

 

[Veridical16]

T I know what are and aren’t sins.

I didn’t post this to make it seem like I was boasting or to be told that I don’t know what sin is. I just wanted to know if others were like me…

All those who are in the sacramental life are supposed to be in a state of grace, for this is the NORM. Following the Bare Minimum of the Ten Commandments, is still not enough, we are called to be saints, which is not the norm…

Some Saints have gone through their whole lives, without committing mortal sins, other saints like St. Francis “lived in sin” in his youth, St. Mary Magdalene, St. Augustine all that matters is that they made the decision every day after embracing Christ and the life of grace to persevere in it.

It doesn’t matter the hour the laborer starts, at birth or late in the day, we’re all supposed to repent and then abhor sin. So good for you to start a thread counter to the idea, that all Catholics at some point , have to deal with Mortal Sin…

Society may be to blame, but it is good for the alternative to be presented too.

Until a priest illustrated the true repentance of the use of the sacrament of Confession, I assumed mortal sin was the norm,* “going into a state of grace, then falling into mortal sin again”* he said that’s a wrong presumption to take,

And i can see it for a sense of spiritual laziness, lowering expectations is a stumbling block against
**
Christ’s universal call to Holiness.**

airmaria.com/?sn=141&vp=19836&prefx=conf&plyrnb=1&ttl=Conferences&med=audio

The Threads about Mortal Sin, do make fellow Catholics perceive wrongly that “well everybody is doing it” so they allow themselves some leeway about the idea of our weaknesses giving us permission to slip.

Reading the lives of the Saints, where they call the committing of one mortal sin, as an act of insanity , brings one into right perspective of Christ’s sacrifice for us, so that we may stay humble and allow ourselves to effectively intercede for others and become as holy as God made us to be.

 

[Vico]

So $299 isn’t grave matter? What if it is $299 stolen from a poor neighbor?

You came up with the $300 number based on the amount of petty theft in Florida. In California it is $950. So, by your reckoning, one can commit a mortal sin in Florida, but can still steal an additional $649 before it becomes mortal in California.

I just don’t believe these things are quite so clear-cut.

It was an example, as noted. It will vary with the location and times and people involved. You can read about it here from the Catholic Encyclopedia if you are interested:There is no doubt but that small pilferings perpetrated at different times, whether to the prejudice of one or of many owners, can eventually coalesce and reach a sum forbidden under pain of mortal sin. The contrary doctrine was condemned by Innocent XI. The reason, of course, is that the damage wrought is serious. This coalescence may be brought about by the specific intention of the thief in his petty stealing to ultimately arrive at a conspicuous amount. When several persons join forces to steal from another and the loss incurred is notable, then each one contracts the guilt of grievous sin, even though his own contribution to the wrong-doing has been but small. One who hoards the proceeds of his petty thefts is chargeable with mortal sin when the sum accumulated is grave. Even when he has disposed of his ill-gotten goods as fast as they were acquired, his thievings will still be held to coalesce unless there has been a considerable interval of time betwen them.
Delany, J. (1912). Theft. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/14564b.htm

 

[ProVobis]

Well, this is before my day, but my dad (born in 1944) can remember from his catechism classes that stealing $99.99 was a venial sin, while stealing $100 was mortal. Such distinctions have always bothered me.

Considering what $99.99 would have bought you in 1944, that would have been one heck of a venial sin. But your point is well-taken.

 

[babochka]

It was an example, as noted. It will vary with the location and times and people involved. You can read about it here from the Catholic Encyclopedia if you are interested:There is no doubt but that small pilferings perpetrated at different times, whether to the prejudice of one or of many owners, can eventually coalesce and reach a sum forbidden under pain of mortal sin. The contrary doctrine was condemned by Innocent XI. The reason, of course, is that the damage wrought is serious. This coalescence may be brought about by the specific intention of the thief in his petty stealing to ultimately arrive at a conspicuous amount. When several persons join forces to steal from another and the loss incurred is notable, then each one contracts the guilt of grievous sin, even though his own contribution to the wrong-doing has been but small. One who hoards the proceeds of his petty thefts is chargeable with mortal sin when the sum accumulated is grave. Even when he has disposed of his ill-gotten goods as fast as they were acquired, his thievings will still be held to coalesce unless there has been a considerable interval of time betwen them.
Delany, J. (1912). Theft. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/14564b.htm

This isn’t really what I’m talking about. Of course, small amounts over time add up, and can amount to grave matter, just as if a large amount were stolen all at once. I just think that it is ridiculous to put out a firm number and say that it is venial sin under x amount, mortal sin over it.

According to the article, the damage wrought must be serious. This will vary from time to time, place to place, and circumstance to circumstance. It is more grave to knowingly steal the last $10 from a poor widow desperate to feed her family than it is to steal $100 from a wealthy individual with money to spare. Clearly, both circumstances are sinful, but the damage wrought by the former situation in greater than the damage in the latter.

 

[felsguy]

Could it be that parents are misinforming their own kids by telling them to go to confession after they’ve been caught in a lie or by disobeying them?

If parents are telling their children that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient they MUST go to confession before they can receive the Eucharist then YES ABSOLUTEY they are “misinforming” their children. They are telling them something contrary to what the Church teaches.

I’m sure this has been done over the years and continues to be done due to the parents themselves misunderstanding or having been misinformed themselves. I’m not saying these parents (as well as those nuns of old, past catechists, or even posters on CAF) are bad people; but they are spouting bad theology. And it most certainly can have a harmful effect. It unnecessarily deprives children from the benefits of receiving the Eucharist. And apparently for some this continues on into adulthood (perhaps including many members of the “ethnic blocks” you allude to).

Plus, as others have pointed out, consider all the struggling folks who post here asking things like "I said “gosh darn’ when I hit my thumb with a hammer” and the number of times they are then told something like “it might not be a mortal sin but just mention it the next time you go to confession.”

 

[ProVobis]

If parents are telling their children that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient they MUST go to confession before they can receive the Eucharist then YES ABSOLUTEY they are “misinforming” their children. They are telling them something contrary to what the Church teaches.

Beg to differ. The Commandment is to “Honor thy Father and Mother.” Parents are legitimate authority and are to be obeyed except when they command something sinful. One may make a case that not cleaning their room or not doing their homework is a venial sin when asked to do so by the parent but the commandment still stands. If a parent tells them that not going to Church on Sunday or not making one’s Easter duty is no big deal, that is contrary to what the Church teaches.

.

 

[felsguy]

Is it strange that I don’t commit mortal sin? Other than worrying about committing mortal sin because of my invisible illnesses, I don’t do anything bad. Not mortally, at least. I don’t want to seem like I’m boasting, but no one else seems to be like me. All of the threads are about committing mortal sin. I’m thankful that I don’t have temptations, but is there anyone else like me?

Kendra, back to your original question. It appears that I am of the minority opinion here but I say, no, it is not at all strange that you don’t commit mortal sin and yes, there are many, many others who by the grace of God live their live day to day without committing mortal sin. This is not to say that they (or you, I’m sure) never have, never could, or never will commit mortal sin or even that you and they may not face temptation, sometimes frequent and sometimes severe, to do so.

 

[felsguy]

All I know is when I just turned the age of reason, I was taught that lying, gossiping, cheating, disobeying parents, inter alia needed to be confessed.

If parents are telling their children that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient they MUST go to confession before they can receive the Eucharist then YES ABSOLUTEY they are “misinforming” their children. They are telling them something contrary to what the Church teaches.

Beg to differ. The Commandment is to “Honor thy Father and Mother.” Parents are legitimate authority and are to be obeyed except when they command something sinful. One may make a case that not cleaning their room or not doing their homework is a venial sin when asked to do so by the parent but the commandment still stands. If a parent tells them that not going to Church on Sunday or not making one’s Easter duty is no big deal, that is contrary to what the Church teaches.

I’ll try just this one more time.

If any child is taught that that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient the Church requires that they must go to confession before they may receive the Eucharist, they are being misinformed.

No word games, no hair splitting. I’m sorry but if you were taught that then you were misinformed. If you still believe that, then you are misinformed.

 

[babochka]

I’ll try just this one more time.

If any child is taught that that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient the Church requires that they must go to confession before they may receive the Eucharist, they are being misinformed.

No word games, no hair splitting. I’m sorry but if you were taught that then you were misinformed. If you still believe that, then you are misinformed.

I am in complete agreement.

 

[ProVobis]

I’ll try just this one more time.

If any child is taught that that every single time they tell a lie or are disobedient the Church requires that they must go to confession before they may receive the Eucharist, they are being misinformed.

No word games, no hair splitting. I’m sorry but if you were taught that then you were misinformed. If you still believe that, then you are misinformed.

I was taught and I believe no such thing. Perhaps we are talking past each other. We had a 6th grade teacher who told the boys it was a mortal sin to put their hands in their pockets. Perhaps she was proven later to be wrong for her reasons, but she did have the authority (as a teacher) to tell us not to do that and we needed to obey as long as we were in her class. Just as a bishop may do with a priest in a similar manner. Or an abbot in a monastery. You want to tell them they were all misinformed, fine, but they still need to be obedient. Didn’t the serpent tell Adam and Eve they were misinformed about the fruit they were ordered not to eat?

.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, this is before my day, but my dad (born in 1944) can remember from his catechism classes that stealing $99.99 was a venial sin, while stealing $100 was mortal. Such distinctions have always bothered me.

Seeing how much $99.99 could buy you back then, I’d say that was a heck of a venial sin.
But your point well-taken.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, this is before my day, but my dad (born in 1944) can remember from his catechism classes that stealing $99.99 was a venial sin, while stealing $100 was mortal. Such distinctions have always bothered me.

Seeing how much $99.99 could buy you back then, not quite Manhattan, but I’d say that was a heck of a venial sin.

However, your point well-taken.