No need for a Priestly Confession?

  • Thread starter Thread starter malachi_a_serva
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

malachi_a_serva

Guest
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
 
So when Christ gave Peter the authority to bind and loose things on earth…that was what? When Paul implores us to confess our sins to one another…that was just opinion?

Here’s something else to think about. God is already aware of your sins…you are aware of your sins…what value then would confessing your sins to God be? There has to be something more it or the words of Christ and Paul are meaningless.

There is in the efficacious sacrament of reconciliation which I’m sure my brethren will expound on further…but right now I have to get ready for mass. 🙂
 
Do you believe you even need to confess your sins to God? Why or why not? After all, He knew all your sins before you were made, so confessing your sins would not be for His benefit.
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
Confessing your sins to the priest means that you are humbling yourself before a brother as Christ became the Lamb of God and a man to forgive your sins. When you go in for confession you must be repentent and honestly wish to amend your life, or it may not be a valid confession. Honesty and humbleness is the key here. Sacramental Confession is necessary, as it lets you search your conscious to help you amend your life. The Magisterium did not make up Sacramental confession…

I recommend going to catholicity.com/maryfoundation/ and getting all 7 of the CDs (which are free). They have an awesome one which will explain the need for a sacramental confession to you.

Sacramental Confession was something all Christians believed in up until the time of the Reformation and they got away with the priesthood and the sacraments.

scripturecatholic.com/confession.html

(cont’d)…
 
II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Acts 19:18 - many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today.

Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist).

1 Tim. 6:12 - this verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses.

1 John 1:9 - if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another.

Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 - even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Baruch 1:14 - again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness. Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

(cont’d…)
 
Tradition / Church Fathers
I. The Early Church’s Practice of Oral Confession


“In church confess your sins, and do not come to your prayer with a guilt conscience. Such is the Way of Life…On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure." *Didache, 4:14,14:1 (c. A.D. 90). *

“Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness[of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop.” *Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyraeans, 9 (c. A.D. 110). *

“Moreover, that this Marcus compounds philters and love-potions, in order to insult the persons of some of these women, if not of all, those of them who have returned to the Church of God–a thing which frequently occurs–have acknowledged, confessing, too, that they have been defiled by him, and that they were filled with a burning passion towards him. A sad example of this occurred in the case of a certain Asiatic, one of our deacons, who had received him (Marcus) into his house. His wife, a woman of remarkable beauty, fell a victim both in mind and body to this magician, and, for a long time, travelled about with him. At last, when, with no small difficulty, the brethren had converted her, she spent her whole time in the exercise of public confession, weeping over and lamenting the defilement which she had received from this magician.” *Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:13 (A.D. 180). *

“Such are the words and deeds by which, in our own district of the Rhone, they have deluded many women, who have their consciences seared as with a hot iron. Some of them, indeed, make a public confession of their sins; but others of them are ashamed to do this, and in a tacit kind of way, despairing of [attaining to] the life of God, have, some of them, apostatized altogether; while others hesitate between the two courses, and incur that which is implied in the proverb, ‘neither without nor within;’ possessing this as the fruit from the seed of the children of knowledge.” *Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:13 (A.D. 180). *

“Father who knowest the hearts of all grant upon this Thy servant whom Thou hast chosen for the episcopate to feed Thy holy flock and serve as Thine high priest, that he may minister blamelessly by night and day, that he may unceasingly behold and appropriate Thy countenance and offer to Thee the gifts of Thy holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority to forgive sins…” *Hippolytus, Apostolic Tradition, 3 (A.D. 215). *

“The Pontifex Maximus–that is, the bishop of bishops–issues an edict: ‘I remit, to such as have discharged (the requirements of) repentance, the sins both of adultery and of fornication.’” *Tertullian, Modesty, 1 (A.D. 220). *

“In addition to these there is also a seventh, albeit hard and laborious: the remission of sins through penance…when he does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord.” *Origen, Homilies on Leviticus, 2:4 (A.D. 248). *

“For although in smaller sins sinners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of communion: now with their time still unfulfilled, while persecution is still raging, while the peace of the Church itself is not vet restored, they are admitted to communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands Of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.’” *Cyprian, To the Clergy, 9 (16):2 (A.D. 250). *

“Moreover, how much are they both greater in faith and better in their fear, who, although bound by no crime of sacrifice to idols or of certificate, yet, since they have even thought of such things, with grief and simplicity confess this very thing to God’s priests, and make the conscientious avowal, put off from them the load of their minds, and seek out the salutary medicine even for slight and moderate wounds, knowing that it is written, ‘God is not mocked.’ God cannot be mocked, nor deceived, nor deluded by any deceptive cunning. Yea, he sins the more, who, thinking that God is like man, believes that he evades the penalty of his crime if he has not openly admitted his crime…I entreat you, beloved brethren, that each one should confess his own sin, while he who has sinned is still in this world, while his confession may be received, while the satisfaction and remission made by the priests are pleasing to the Lord?” Cyprian, To the Lapsed, 28-29 (A.D. 251).

(cont’d…)
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
Perhaps you are reading to much into this verse. Notice that, in saying this, Jesus does not *forbid * us to confess our sins to another. In other words, here he wasn’t concerned with the how, just the necessity to do so.

Having established that fact, you need to deal with the numerous other places where the Scriptures DO imply auricular confession, to wit:

Matthew 3:6
Matthew 16:19
Matthew 18:18
John 20:23
James 5:16

etc, etc, etc…
 
“It is necessary to confess our sins to those whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted.” *Basil, Rule Briefly Treated, 288 (A.D. 374). *

“These are capital sins, brethren, these are mortal.” *Pacian of Barcelona, Penance, 4 (A.D. 385). *

“For if any one will consider how great a thing it is for one, being a man, and compassed with flesh and blood, to be enabled to draw nigh to that blessed and pure nature, he will then clearly see what great honor the grace of the Spirit has vouchsafed to priests; since by their agency these rites are celebrated, and others nowise inferior to these both in respect of our dignity and our salvation. For they who inhabit the earth and make their abode there are entrusted with the administration of things which are in Heaven, and have received an authority which God has not given to angels or archangels. For it has not been said to them, ‘Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.’ They who rule on earth have indeed authority to bind, but only the body: whereas this binding lays hold of the soul and penetrates the heavens; and what priests do here below God ratifies above, and the Master confirms the sentence of his servants. For indeed what is it but all manner of heavenly authority which He has given them when He says, ‘Whose sins ye remit they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain they are retained?’ What authority could be greater than this? ‘The Father hath committed all judgment to the Son?’ But I see it all put into the hands of these men by the Son.” *John Chrysostom, The Priesthood, 3:5 (A.D. 387). *

“The Church holds fast its obedience on either side, by both retaining and remitting sin; heresy is on the one side cruel, and on the other disobedient; wishes to bind what it will not loosen, and will not loosen what it has bound, whereby it condemns itself by its own sentence. For the Lord willed that the power of binding and of loosing should be alike, and sanctioned each by a similar condition…Each is allowed to the Church, neither to heresy, for this power has been entrusted to priests alone. Rightly, therefore, does the Church claim it, which has true priests; heresy, which has not the priests of God, cannot claim it. And by not claiming this power heresy pronounces its own sentence, that not possessing priests it cannot claim priestly power. And so in their shameless obstinacy a shamefaced acknowledgment meets our view. Consider, too, the point that he who has received the Holy Ghost has also received the power of forgiving and of retaining sin. For thus it is written: ‘Receive the Holy Spirit: whosesoever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them, and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.’ So, then, he who has not received power to forgive sins has not received the Holy Spirit. The office of the priest is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and His right it is specially to forgive and to retain sins. How, then, can they claim His gift who distrust His power and His right?” *Ambrose, Concerning Repentance, I:7-8 (A.D. 388). *

“All mortal sins are to be submitted to the keys of the Church and all can be forgiven; but recourse to these keys is the only, the necessary, and the certain way to forgiveness. Unless those who are guilty of grievous sin have recourse to the power of the keys, they cannot hope for eternal salvation. Open your lips, them, and confess your sins to the priest. Confession alone is the true gate to Heaven.” *Augustine, Christian Combat (A.D. 397). *“Just as in the Old Testament the priest makes the leper clean or unclean, so in the New Testament the bishop and presbyter binds or looses not those who are innocent or guilty, but by reason of their office, when they have heard various kinds of sins, they know who is to be bound and who loosed.” Jerome, Commentary on Matthew, 3:16,19 (A.D. 398).

Hope this is enough evidence for you. 🙂
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
Others could answer this better, but it’s a good question, so let me get started and maybe you can see a foundation for later replies.

The Church teaches that there are 2 primary classes of sins. Mortal and venial. We can give you Scriptural explanations if you wish, but to make this short, I’ll just say that it’s not required to confess, to a priest, venial sins. It’s a great thing to do, but only mortal sins must be confessed to a priest for absolution. Other sins (venial) can be forgiven through simple “direct to God” confession, and are also forgiven at Mass.

Note, there in the Our Father prayer, that there is a necessary companion to being forgiven, and that’s forgiving those who have trespassed against you. So, there’s still a human-human element present in direct-to-God confession. See also Matthew 18:21-34.
 
Semper Fi:
Confessing your sins to the priest means that you are humbling yourself before a brother as Christ became the Lamb of God and a man to forgive your sins. When you go in for confession you must be repentent and honestly wish to amend your life, or it may not be a valid confession. Honesty and humbleness is the key here.
Hi everyone, all good response and worthy to investigate further. Currently, when I pray and ask for forgiveness, I have to be repentent and honestly wish to ammend my life as well. I think to the sin and if it a repetative sin, that I do not have the right Fear Of GOD in me…or I would have never done it. I mean, just think, if GOD was visiable when we were going to sin, we wouldn’t do it. Yet we all know GOD is there anyway, so we put ourselves first (speakingof me). Anyway, thank you for your responses.
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
The short answer is “yes”. But our bibles also tell us that Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins in his name (John 20). So, the question becomes, how to reconcile these two concepts. In Catholicism, they are reconciled as follows: venial sins can be forgiven in the way you suggest. Mortal sins normatively require going to the successors of the apostles.
 
40.png
John_Henry:
The short answer is “yes”. But our bibles also tell us that Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins in his name (John 20). So, the question becomes, how to reconcile these two concepts. In Catholicism, they are reconciled as follows: venial sins can be forgiven in the way you suggest. Mortal sins normatively require going to the successors of the apostles.
Sounds reasonable although Jesus’ example does not illustrate a “type” of trespass. But I do understand and see you point.
 
Don’t overlook that the Catholic Church teaches that in order for a Sacramental Confession to be valid, the Penitent (person confessing) must have contrition (we can talk about the different types later, or on another thread), and must not intend on comitting the sin again. That doesn’t mean they won’t, just that they have the firm resolve not to. If those conditions are not met within the heart of the penitent, then the confession is not valid, and there is no absolution that takes place…that is the official teaching of the Church. The short of it is that God knows the state of your heart, and you can’t fool God. However, I would like to say that as Catholics we believe that the confessional is the mechanism Christ gave us to go directly to Him. We hold that we have to go to Him on His terms, and auricular confession to the ones He gave the authority to forgive and retain sins are the terms that He gave us whether we like it or not.
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
Hi everyone, all good response and worthy to investigate further. Currently, when I pray and ask for forgiveness, I have to be repentent and honestly wish to ammend my life as well. I think to the sin and if it a repetative sin, that I do not have the right Fear Of GOD in me…or I would have never done it. I mean, just think, if GOD was visiable when we were going to sin, we wouldn’t do it. Yet we all know GOD is there anyway, so we put ourselves first (speakingof me). Anyway, thank you for your responses.
Nicely stated. I know you still have a million and one questions, but I encourage you to do something. Even though you are not back in the catholic Church yet. (I’m not sure where you stand, for I haven’t talked to you in a while :)) I encourage you to take some time to go to Eucharistic Adoration at your local parish. Even though you probably do not quite believe in the “Real Presence” at this moment, take the time to sit before God as you “picture him”, whether you believe it is spiritually or truly body, blood, soul and divinity. Don’t forget, even though one confesses to a priest, the ultimate forgiveness comes from God. Hopefully you still have a Catechism of the Catholic Church handy. Maybe you could even read about this subject and its verses in the Bible during Adoration. Please consider this seriously and do so. Maybe you’ll find it in your soul what your “calling” is.

Your friend,

imroc
 
40.png
imroc:
Nicely stated. I know you still have a million and one questions, but I encourage you to do something. Even though you are not back in the catholic Church yet. (I’m not sure where you stand, for I haven’t talked to you in a while :)) I encourage you to take some time to go to Eucharistic Adoration at your local parish. Even though you probably do not quite believe in the “Real Presence” at this moment, take the time to sit before God as you “picture him”, whether you believe it is spiritually or truly body, blood, soul and divinity. Don’t forget, even though one confesses to a priest, the ultimate forgiveness comes from God. Hopefully you still have a Catechism of the Catholic Church handy. Maybe you could even read about this subject and its verses in the Bible during Adoration. Please consider this seriously and do so. Maybe you’ll find it in your soul what your “calling” is.

Your friend,

imroc
Would God deny a truly contrite heart?
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
Would God deny a truly contrite heart?
 
By the way, the verse you quoted! If that were the only verse in the New Testament that referred to ANY forgiveness and reconcillation with and by God, I wouldn’t believe in the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. But it isn’t the only verse and there are detailed verses spelling out such. Just another thing to think about.

God Bless you!

imroc
 
40.png
santaro75:
Would God deny a truly contrite heart?
Honestly, I agree with you. But I would rather follow the sacraments that are layed out by Christ in the Bible. I can’t think of a verse in the Bible speaks specifically about an “assurance”. But I do know that there are several references to forgiveness by men and confession to men and reconcillation by men.
 
We are covering this in our RCIA classes right now. One point that was brought out today was that, although I can confess my sins to the Father directly, and am encouraged to do so as part of my daily examination of conscience, the Sacrament of Reconciliation conveys a grace. I am imparted with the spiritual grace to forgive myself as God has forgiven me. I am given spiritual grace to overcome habitual sin. There is more to it than just confession, the gift of grace is an enormously important component of this Sacrament.

There is a verse in the Scriptures, and forgive me, I don’t have the reference at the moment and it’s very late as I am writing this, but it basically says “To obey is better than sacrifice”. Obedience to confess our sins as we are instructed in Scripture is better than the sacrifice of confession to God alone that is not in accordance with how we are instructed to confess.
 
40.png
malachi_a_serva:
When Jesus taught us “The Our Father” or “The Lord’s Prayer”, was he not demonstrating that we go directly to GOD The Father with our confessions?

“…and forgive us our trespasses…”
I notice you omitted the rest of the sentence. It’s “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

I honestly don’t see anything there about the manner in which we are to confess. The word “confess” doesn’t occur at all. Sounds to me like we’re asking God to forgive us in a certain way: to forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us.

There are four petitions in the Our Father:
  1. Give us this day our daily bread.
  2. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us
  3. Lead us not into temptation
  4. Deliver us from evil
The context is that we are asking God to do certain things, including forgiving us in a certain way. Nowhere does it say we are to confess directly to God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top